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MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
If there has been a situation where the CCR was amended by a majority vote as required but was in turn filed with the county improperly, is there some recourse to correct the filing?

Is it as simple as just re-filing with the proper documentation?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
How was it misfiled? You usually have to pay a filing fee to file it. We used a lawyer to do so. Not sure if that is a requirement to use one, but we did. We had to get the vote of our membership to sign a document agreeing to the changes and not to be forced to attend a special meeting to decide. This way we could go door to door to collect signatures. Our lawyer had attached the changes and then they later integrated into the filed document.

I am not sure how one can misfile but I would talk to where you filed to find out the issues. They most likely will charge you again for re-filing. Make sure to use your corporate seal if you do file again.

Former HOA President
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
At this time it appears there was no supporting documentation (proof of vote) filed and the amendment is being questioned.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Do you have a copy of this? That would be the document everyone was to have signed. It is important as to reflect you truly do have the majority vote you say. Be careful to make sure they are actual owners that have signed and not just residents. It took us almost 3 years of gathering signatures so I know how important that document is.

Like I said before, our lawyer drafted us up an additional document so that we could "give up" our right to a special meeting requirement. A VERY helpful document as otherwise to collect the signatures we would have had to hold special meetings to gather these signatures. Signing to give up the right to go to this meeting and signing the document for the change allowed us to go door to door or have it at our regular meetings to sign.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Amended filings are not unheard of. Ask your recorder's office for information about re-recording a corrective document.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
BTW, this is just why I do not like the idea of voting for amendments to the CC&R's. There will now be a perpetual dispute as to whether there was enough votes, who voted, when they voted, what they voted on, whether there was proper notice of a vote, whether the secretary lied about the number of votes, etc.

Life is much easier when owners sign a document that signifies their approval and the signed documents are recorded.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

As Larry said, your recorders office can help you know which forms to file.
Your attorney can give you legal advice regarding the forms.
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
As far as I read, there is no requirement for a signed document and there is no known signed document. Would a tally of collected votes be all that is required and a production of said such votes and proxies be sufficient? Would these need to be filed as supporting documents?

Our CCRs are stated as:

“These covenants, restriction, easements, charges, and liens of this Declaration may be amended, changed, added to, derogated, or deleted ant any time and from time to time upon the execution and recordation of any instrument executed by Owners holding not less than two-thirds (2/3) vote of the membership in Association”
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 12/02/2014 9:54 AM
BTW, this is just why I do not like the idea of voting for amendments to the CC&R's. There will now be a perpetual dispute as to whether there was enough votes, who voted, when they voted, what they voted on, whether there was proper notice of a vote, whether the secretary lied about the number of votes, etc.

Life is much easier when owners sign a document that signifies their approval and the signed documents are recorded.

Agreed!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

When our Association amending our governing documents in 1993, all that was required for the CC&Rs was a statement of witness signed by each Director (notorized). Our Articles of incorporation simply required a statement signed by the President.

Our attorney drew up the final version that was filed. You may want to consider this.

NOTE: Our Association files have the signin sheet, proxies, minutes and ballots of the actual vote in our files (well they have been digitized (scanned to pdf) now). This way, if someone desired they can verify the count. If needed, the Association can defend the amendment.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are there no meeting minutes that show the votes, etc.? When did this amendment occur, Mike??
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
There is documentation of the proper amount of votes required to amend in the form of paper ballots. That is why I questioned, cannot we just re-file with supporting documents? Or file the documents as an addendum?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are there no meeting minutes that show the votes, etc.? When did this amendment occur, Mike??
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeL13 on 12/02/2014 10:09 AM
As far as I read, there is no requirement for a signed document and there is no known signed document. Would a tally of collected votes be all that is required and a production of said such votes and proxies be sufficient? Would these need to be filed as supporting documents?

Our CCRs are stated as:

“These covenants, restriction, easements, charges, and liens of this Declaration may be amended, changed, added to, derogated, or deleted ant any time and from time to time upon the execution and recordation of any instrument executed by Owners holding not less than two-thirds (2/3) vote of the membership in Association”


Mike,

After reading the above passage I do not believe that your amendment was ever properly adopted to begin with. The above text states that what you should have filed was a document signed - "executed" - by a sufficient number of owners. I see no provision for holding an election.

What should have been recorded was one or more copies of the text of the amendment, each with the signatures of the owners. You could record one page with all signatures or multiple pages, each containing the text with signatures indicating approval.

I can see where the phrase "Owners holding not less than two-thirds (2/3) vote of the membership in Association" could cause confusion. Since it talks about votes one could easily infer that the CC&R's could be amended by conducting an election. Assuming that all owners have one vote and that the declarant is no longer in the picture, "two-thirds (2/3) vote of the membership in Association" is the same as 2/3 of the property owners. I suspect that the phrasing was meant to protect the CC&R's from amendment by the homeowners while the declarant was still in control.

I disagree with your opening statement that "there is no requirement for a signed document." That is precisely what your CC&R's require. An "instrument" is a document and "executed" means signed.

My advice would be to start over from scratch and forget about trying to turn the past vote into something it never was and never can be.

EmmaH1
Posts: 674
Posted:


Our CCRs are stated as:

“These covenants, restriction, easements, charges, and liens of this Declaration may be amended, changed, added to, derogated, or deleted ant any time and from time to time upon the execution and recordation of any instrument executed by Owners holding not less than two-thirds (2/3) vote of the membership in Association”


I disagree with your opening statement that "there is no requirement for a signed document." That is precisely what your CC&R's require. An "instrument" is a document and "executed" means signed.


Larry I am so glad you made that point about what a "instrument" and "executed" means in CC&Rs. Especially that "executed" means signed. Can "executed" as used in the posters example be construed as meaning anything other than signed? is that basic contract law?

thanks
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EmmaH1 on 12/02/2014 6:08 PM

Our CCRs are stated as:

“These covenants, restriction, easements, charges, and liens of this Declaration may be amended, changed, added to, derogated, or deleted ant any time and from time to time upon the execution and recordation of any instrument executed by Owners holding not less than two-thirds (2/3) vote of the membership in Association”


I disagree with your opening statement that "there is no requirement for a signed document." That is precisely what your CC&R's require. An "instrument" is a document and "executed" means signed.



Larry I am so glad you made that point about what a "instrument" and "executed" means in CC&Rs. Especially that "executed" means signed. Can "executed" as used in the posters example be construed as meaning anything other than signed? is that basic contract law?

thanks

Yes, I read and understand what the CCRs require. What I meant was there is there appears to be no requirement for an "instrument" or document that is signed by the required 2/3rds of the membership (owners). There IS a document signed by the board and filed with the county attesting to the fact there was a vote by the membership that fulfilled the requirement needed.

The question at hand does the document(instrument)need to be signed by all that voted to amend or can it be filed as stated above?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeL13 on 12/02/2014 7:26 PM

Yes, I read and understand what the CCRs require. What I meant was there is there appears to be no requirement for an "instrument" or document that is signed by the required 2/3rds of the membership (owners). There IS a document signed by the board and filed with the county attesting to the fact there was a vote by the membership that fulfilled the requirement needed.

The question at hand does the document(instrument)need to be signed by all that voted to amend or can it be filed as stated above?

Mike,

I do not think you understand this at all. Your CC&R's specify how to amend by recording a document signed by 2/3 of the owners. Your wrote, "What I meant was there is there appears to be no requirement for an "instrument" or document that is signed by the required 2/3rds of the membership (owners)." Yet that is precisely what the passage you quoted states that you must have if you wish to amend your CC&R's.

Your board failed to follow the dictates of the CC&R's attempting to amend by some means of their own devising. Even if 100% of the owners voted in favor of an amendment and 100% of the board certified that those were the results and recorded that certificate, you would still not have a valid amendment due to failing to follow the process set forth in the CC&R's. All the owners today may be satisfied with that process but what happens ten years from now when some new owner discovers the discrepancy between what was required and what was done?

To answer your question, the document needs to be signed by 2/3 of the owners. (I am assuming one vote per lot.) It does not matter whether they are the same people who previously voted or not. You just need 2/3 of the owners to sign.
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
OK then, a document signed by 2/3rds. The question in my first post was, can we re-file with supporting documentation? That documentation being the signed ballots and proxies?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
That is a question for the Recorders office. They will tell you if you can refile. I would suggest maybe consulting an attorney or legal services prior. Make sure you are doing the process correctly and that you don't need a lawyer to file. Plus it's a good idea to make sure what you have amended is even legal and applicable.

Do you have the changes/amendments that was changed? Will there be copies available once completed?

Former HOA President
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeL13 on 12/02/2014 9:12 AM
If there has been a situation where the CCR was amended by a majority vote as required but was in turn filed with the county improperly, is there some recourse to correct the filing?

Is it as simple as just re-filing with the proper documentation?

Was the "improper filing" done by an attorney or licensed paralegal ? If so then presumably that professional would correct to avoid discipline etc. Titles office scrutiny may not address content problems nor look beyond a veneer of digital account by a law society registrant.

(One fraudster management company here in 2011 faked almost a dozen BBB bogus borrowing by-laws of his client condo corporations to obtain $22 M from careless lenders induced by REGISTRATION of those totally bogus, client by-law commitments before quick exit to Bangladesh beyond extradition.

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