Members only

Well, the first thing would be to keep in mind that Board members are also members of the Association.

Most, if not all, of those who actively participate on this forum saw things that they wished their Board did better and took steps to make that happen. This forum allows us to share how we accomplished those things so others may learn from our experiences.

I'm puzzled why you would want to dismiss those experiences simply because the individuals took the time to serve on their Board and make those changes.

Why should someone post their complaints of their HOA on a forum their board or fellow members do not see? Plus should people not be posting about the SOLUTIONS they did when they had complaints? I am more interested in the solutions to the problems than keep spinning my wheels on a subject going no where.

My rule of thumb: If you have a problem then have a solution. If you don't have a solution, then don't expect a group of people to make the solution for you that you like/want. It does not matter how off the wall the solution you want is. Just do not present a problem/issue without a way to have a final reasonable outcome.

forget it Melissa don't even answer the What?
thanks for your input

All I can say is I must have really hit nerve with you, Melissa.

Once again a post is sidetracked by your personal attack.

You are good at that.

Oh, a second thing to remember is that you won't be able to change anything by yourself.

You need support from others to change those who are serving on the Board.

If elected to the Board, your single vote does very little. Decisions are made by majority vote, so you will need others on the Board who agree with you or that you can sway towards your solution.

It's easy to hit nerves. It's harder to repair the damage once the nerves are hit.

For example: I wonder how many members of this site you alienated by not initially wanting their opinions on this thread (i.e. hitting a nerve). I wonder how many members of this site will simply ignore your apology for wanting to dismiss those opinions (i.e. harder to repair the damage once done).

Just as it's impossible to edit posts on this site once the submit button is depressed, it's just as impossible to pull back an e-mail that may be sent out of frustration to fellow Board members.

Tim,

I am open to a little friendly razzing back and forth with people as long as its all in fun and taken lightly. I don't feel that is the case here. You have the right to your own opinion and I mine.

Again, agree to disagree.

Funny... Did I do it again??? Created drama for a poster again? Dang have to stop doing that one day... Victims... Everybody wants to be one or play one...

Tim,

What just transpired is exactly why I had originally posted it as "members only". I did not expect all of the long time BODs to understand the goal I had in mind.

Now the my original subject was overshadowed with "drama" and I will have to re-post at another time.

I wanted people who where just not yet directors to respond freely without being afraid of being scolded. (I knew there would not be an overwhelming response that was okay.) It for my intention to gain some new peoples insight, people that may not normally post here. I personally know I watched for a long time before I got up the guts to post. Y'all got on the defense unfortunately.

So what I have learned is it is a touchy subject for one former HOA president. Who seems to miss her authoritative status. (I think I could have guessed that beforehand). And that everytime I disagree with Mel you will jump in and defend and translate what she "meant". I think you should let her defend herself for the sake of other people reading here.

Just saying, WOW!

too bad some people OFTEN need a translator to get their point across

As with most directors, I am a member of our HOA. I was a non-director for two years before I was elected to the Board. During that period I served on one and initiated a second committee.

I sought the Board position because the then Board was secretive and because they were not taking action on what some of us believed were construction defects with statutes of limitation looming. Related to that, though we'd been owner controlled for five years, the developer's offices are in our high rise and as the owners of those two "lots," they have a permanent seat on our board of 7 per our bylaws. The developer's rep had an excellent relationship with the early boards and they all believed him when he said there were no defects. Our HOA attorney had originally been the developer's attorney. The then directors believed everything she said.

Communication was terrible and got so bad that the board even took down the notice holders in our elevators. We non-directors barely knew when there was a board meeting, let alone any other important information. We had a newsletter, but it was so tightly controlled by the then prez, that two non-owner editors resigned.

Another & I of our insurgent group were elected at the end of '06 and we took the majority at the end of '07 elections. Even in '06, as a minority, we two were able to pressure the Board into following our state's open meeting laws and stop discussing topics in executive session that weren't legal. Once on the Board, I read a lot of the previous ex. sess. minutes and saw that our suspicions were true.

We also were able to get communications up and running again via new notice holders, I became newsletter editor, and our PM made much more use of our website to keep residents and owners informed. We encourage owner input at open forum at our meetings and via suggestion boxes.

Once in the majority, we fired our GC and hired an HOA law firm that wasn't in the developer's pocket. We next hired construction defect attorneys. Our HOA eventually were awarded a healthy settlement.

So, to sum up, openness, transparency, frequent communication via more than one or two vehicles. But to get there, we non-directors had to fight; we had to educate ourselves; we had to meet to discuss improvements; and we held the then board's feet to the fire at meetings in honest, yet polite ways. Put another way, we did not burn our bridges as we knew we'd be in the minority at first.

But, Emma, I'm a little concerned about this phrase from your first post on this thread: "I want to run things in my small community more like a 'team.'" I believe your HOA will benefit if the team is democratic rather than "run" by you or any other individual. Please recognize that various H/Os will bring different strengths to your common-investment table.

Emma,

Melissa doesn't need defending. Nor was I defending Melissa, although I can see how it may be interpreted that way. As I said, I wasn't defending Melissa, I was trying to help you gain the benefits of what Melissa was posting.

From the postings, you seem to want to dismiss what Melissa has to say, perhaps simply because it is Melissa who is saying it. However, what she is saying can be beneficial to those who are willing to listen. Since you appear to listen to what I offer, I didn't want you to miss out on what may be beneficial to you. Therefore, I restated what Melissa posted.

If you get elected to your Board it is possible that you will meet someone like Melissa, Dorthy, or even myself. They may simply be a member or may be serving on the Board. Either way, you will have to work with them in one fashion or another. How you interact with that individual may win you allies or create enemies (some of whom you may never know).

I don't bring this up to create drama. I bring this up in the hope that you, and anyone else serving (or desiring to serve) on a Board will understand to not dismiss the message simply because of the messenger.

One thing I saw on my Board was a dismissal of ideas if they were presented by certain individuals. This was mainly done via written letters, the letters simply had a tonal quality to the writing style that placed the recipient on the defensive. The only way I thought of to correct this was to serve on the Board myself and to treat those individuals the way I would want to be treated.

Well, once I got on the Board, I discovered that there wasn't any real dismissal of ideas. It just happened to be the writing style of the individual writing the letters (the individual who wrote the letter was a great person). To solve the issue, they no longer wrote the letters. From this experience, I learned that some people shouldn't be the messenger. This is because the method and style of delivery may have the message go unheard.

That is a meant as compliment!

Your loss.

I truly wish you luck.

Let's let put this thread to rest. PLEASE. It is benefitting no one.

Thanks

( The dialogue above seems to have unfolded not unlike some of the dialogues in some condo/HOA communities.)

1-Emma might consider putting the same questions to those who provide or have provided professional services to such communities other than her own or to other sorts of groups. (Some may even chose to speak candidly without flogging their business )

2 - If there are credible ways to constructively resolve - even anticipate - problems that inevitably arrive at such communities, will they be heard by Boards who consciously or not build higher & higher bulwarks around themselves ?

Directors should be prepared to ask themselves with BRUTAL honesty, whether they would like to bring a problem to such a Board or management as theirs. Is their real focus play- acting at real/imagined past glory, or dishing out voodoo when there is a lack of skillsets ? Has getting on the Board tainted - & hearing tiresome beefs etc - has it tainted their thinking process ?

Bob,

1. Good Idea. I was thinking of contacting some local management companies that work with some other local HOAs (maybe going into their office at a slow time of the day and asking their advice and opinion). I know proper procedures and laws are being broken in my HOA. I would like to avoid court but the BOD are not open minded and do not admit wrong doing, very stubborn. If they admitted and corrected things when brought to their attention things would be different here. (I personally don't hold grudges when apologies are made and efforts are made to correct wrongs, and would be willing to work with them.)

2. My point exactly. I was trying to find ways to constructively resolve existing and ones that commonly occur. My BOD, just like some here do not want to hear of these problems or even learn and entertain new ideas to deal with them, or even see things from the regular homeowners vs. BODs view.

What I have learned is the problem seems to be common and that SOME (not all) BODs simply won't acknowledge it. It is interesting that some BODs that post here become so enraged and offended wanting to crucify me for calling attention to a injustice and looking for ways to educated myself. Not ever contemplating the idea that the problem lies with my BOD they seem to have a defensive, suspicious attitude against me. It seems to be all about them. I guess when some of them have been doing things their way for so long, and some have been getting away with wrongs they maybe don't like the idea of me asking these questions. That fact in itself says a LOT.

Well I know I can't change the world! but I will continue to educate myself here and elsewhere. Many posters have been very helpful. Many great posts sharing valuable information, some how to maybe deal with my specific situation and some how to make the future better.

p.s. read Crystals angry post to me it is a "perfect example". (she says she thinks I'm "trying to build a case against my HOA" as if that would be wrong if they were bad and not conducting business in a lawful matter? she makes no reasonable sense, she is just defending my BOD people she know nothing about and chooses to defend because they hold the same title as her. THAT is wrong. and I'm hopeful others posting here can see that.

Thank you again for your respectful comment,

Emma

JonD1,

Your post/reaction to me is not surprising. Unfortunately your perception and picture you drew of me is "ALL WET" and could not be further from the truth!

Emma

I think Emma will make a great board member. She has a real knack already of avoiding giving clear and precise information and treats people like they are attacking them for differing opinions. The irony in that is not lost on me in a few chuckles...

We worked very hard on this site to NOT make it a rumor mongering, HOA bad mouthing, and wallowing in despair site. You can vent about your HOA, but you take a breath to get started over again. Our goal is to EDCUCATE HOA members be it Board or Regular members on what HOA's are and operate. It is possible to have a GOOD HOA. It will never be perfect but you will learn how to roll with the punches.

None of us knew how to be a board member. I did not even know how to be a HOA member! It wasn't until I went through the process completely in the dark, that I learned. I was able to make a difference and even give our HOA a solid foundation for the future. That wasn't there when I started.

I looked at many HOA sites for help or advice. There was not any site like this one. You can be a board member without being judged or insulted. Instead, we encourage you to become a board member or be the best one you can. We let you see BOTH sides of the HOA. Board members are owners and members too. They need advice and somewhere to feel supported. We also like to help the regular member who one day would like to be a board member. That is by hard work and dedication. It isn't done by criticism and not listening.

Tim is right that I do not need defending because I should not be under attack. That's not what we are about. If your going to do that to others, then don't think we will take it either. Stop apologizing because that passive aggressive behavior does not fly with me... If your going to be a board member, the first thing is to stand by your words but make sure those words are in agreement with your documents first. That is lesson #1...

Hopefully we can end this thread on a positive note like this. It has been very thought provoking to say the least and I am a believer that one can learn from both positive and negative experiences.

Have a great Day!

Emma

Anyone considering trying a Board makeover from inside or from outside, needs to do a brutally honest self-check about one's own priorities & ultimate purpose.

Part of that, respectfully, is looking closely at what often happens to those who attract a certain attention from the 'real power' within condo/HOA communities, which may not be sitting on the Board either.

The most important conclusion from others' outcomes in disputes may be what happened to them AFTER the dust cleared. Lots of presenters of valid complaints have been ultimately forced out by toxic aftermath regardless of formal public outcome. "Yes the courts said you were right. But now each of us have to suck up $ XXX ! You are Satan !".

It is very easy to have the wagons circled & retaliatory outcome from a neutral majority of owners who may prefer cheap disharmony over legal but inconvenient outcomes. Many stakeholders only want to see squirrel pictures & recipes, only want to hear Happy Thoughts, until crap happens big-time . . .hopefully after they have sold out.

Tim,

Respectfully, you seem to be again defending and speaking for other people. You are not inside their head are you? How are you so confident on their intention. I have looked back to some recent and not so recent NASTY posts by one you are defending, vicious attacks things that shocked me to read. So I know it is not just me. You seem to want to have the "last word" on this subject, which is ironic because you're advising me to be the "bigger person".

I think you make and have made some valid points, although I do not agree with all of them nor should I have to. I have taken your criticism and opinion of myself and will try to work on myself to do better and improve myself. However I do find you to be a bit bias and judgmental at times, in some comments you've made although always in a subtle way. That's okay nobody's perfect even you. Because you are respectful and polite in your comments, I have not pointed that out to you before, no need to, I don't feel it my place anyway. Although on this subject, you tend to be a little defensive, cross and at times insulting. As though I MUST see things your way. You have the right to your own personality that's what makes the world go round. I respect your personal style, please respect mine.

Respectfully I'd like to get back to some real issues instead of all of this analyzing of ones personality and all that. Like you said to me in the past you do not live in my neighborhood. I will continue to learn here and post here. I have learned much from regular posters as well as occasional posters. I think I have received very wise balanced and informative information and new ideas from just as many novice posters as I have from the experts or "good ol boys".

We all have something to learn in life.

I wish you luck too.

Tim,

Your last post to me did contain some well intended and very good advice, I do acknowledge that, I want you to know that.

No hard feelings, I hope. (and I'm not being passive aggressive I mean that)

Because I have been on this site for 7 years and have seen the good in the advice provided.
Because I have had the same thing I posted to you be posted to me (although I must say that Jon worded it differently ).

As the yellow banner above states this forum is "A positive place for community association leaders to share ideas and learn." People learn in different ways and sometimes, just as I required in the past when I started posting here, it takes some tough love to get the point across.


Unfortunately, humans do have biases and make judgements based on their experiences, cultural diversity and how they were raised. We all have it. The best we can do is recognize that fact and try not to let it impact the important decisions we make in life.

One more thing:

How dare any of you question my integrity!

I hope you don't accomplish your goal as self appointed RULERS of this forum, to scare anyone with new ideas from sharing here.

I know you haven't scared me away, nice try though!