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JoannaH1 (Tennessee)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Can someone help me I I'm an owner of a house at Gatlinburg TN. And the board is trying to find out if there's any law that help us .

75% of the owners want to make a owner move out of the house this person is making the neighborhood miserable and everyone that is living here.

Please help!
Thanks
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
As far as I know, an HOA has no power of its own to oust a rotten owner and/or force them to sell.

Depending on the nature of what the offending owner is doing, you may be able to seek relief through the courts in the form of an injunction. There also may be a remedy available by suing the person for making your own property unfit to live in. Either of these need to be discussed with an attorney.

Could you describe what this owner is doing that causes so many of the neighbors to want them gone?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Joanna,

As Larry posted, I also am unaware of any statute that would require someone to vacate their property except for:

Age restricted community (no one 55 years of age occupying the home)
Health hazard (causing the County/City to deem the house uninhabitable)

If covenants are being violated, the Association (or any owner) may take the necessary steps to bring the person into compliance.

Some people simply make bad neighbors.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
How much easier it would be if we just lived in North Korea . .
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No you can not force an owner nor a renter to move out. If they do not pay their dues and you have a policy set up with a timeline of when to lien and then foreclose is the only thing. Even then if they pay the money they owe, the foreclosure stops.

What the issue? A HOA is NOT responsible for "keeping property values". It only to keep the property ATTRACTIVE to potential buyers. So start applying your restrictions.

Former HOA President
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
How about hiring competent legal advice for the Board. How about hiring an alternative dispute resolution professional if the Board listens to that advice.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BobD4 on 11/25/2014 7:53 PM
How much easier it would be if we just lived in North Korea . .

Or in Canada:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/condo-owners-ordered-to-sell-unit-after-parking-spot-dispute-that-wouldnt-end/article18660988/

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/why-court-orders-forcing-residents-to-sell-their-condos-may-become-more-common-1.1515556

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/surrey-condo-owner-forced-to-sell-after-complaints-1.1322672

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannaH1 on 11/25/2014 5:04 PM
Can someone help me I I'm an owner of a house at Gatlinburg TN. And the board is trying to find out if there's any law that help us .

75% of the owners want to make a owner move out of the house this person is making the neighborhood miserable and everyone that is living here.

Please help!
Thanks

Best and fastest way to do it is to move out yourself. How can 1 Lot owner be so bad then the rest of the society?? this says something about a society if just 1 person makes it a living hell. personality conflicts isn't a means to kick a person out on the streets these days, learn to live with everyone man just deal with it and shut up we have better things to hear here then personal BS. hate liberal thinking these days every thing offends them.
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Very impressive pick up by Glen L(Ohio)above about the total expulsion & unit sale ordered by court order against a geriatric VISITOR PARKING scofflaw.

( The compulsory expulsion & sale was actioned not for VISITOR PARKING shenanigans.

It was ordered for contempt of court for endless re-filings of the same beef about the same factuals. As a pro se or SRL self represented litigant with time on his hands, the beefer dragged the strata corp through fifty 50 court appearances before 28 different judges. Apparently court staff did not have the authority or willingness to enforce prior judicial injunctions against more re-filings ! )

The best ( an anonymous online ) one liner about the now physically expelled visitor parking scofflaw & judicial stalker was :

The good news is that now he qualifies to use the Visitors spot ! He needs to look at the bright side of things !
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Ah Bob, you're ignoring the two where bad neighbors were ordered out by the courts. You were implying that wanting to force someone out was something that happened in North Korea, I just pointed out that you didn't have to go a totalitarian country for it to happen.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Joanna,

I have some personal experience in this and you may be in a no-win nightmare.

My own mother was the neighbor from hell. In her case it was mostly barking dogs. For forty years! She owned one mentally disturbed dog after another. The neighbors hated her. The mailman hated her. As the years rolled on my mother's mental ailments combined with senile dementia and she started confronting the neighbors with accusations that they were coming into her house and "moving things around." (That's why no one can find their car keys; the neighbors came in and moved them around.) My mother was also a hoarder; the house stunk and it was a firetrap. I learned later on that there was actually a warrant issued to arrest my mother for failing to appear in court on a barking dog complaint.

We sought help from attorneys and the Adult Protective Services. Every attempt at getting assistance from a public agency failed. In the end we were able to trick my mother into signing a power-of-attorney. This allowed us to use her considerable wealth to pay for relocating her from Ohio to Arizona and placing her in a home. My mother ultimately spent the last 9 years of her life in nursing homes.

We are currently also going through a similar mess with my wife's uncle and the situation is unresolved so far.

The bad news here is that unless your neighbor is a clear and present danger to someone you will receive no help whatsoever from the law. Courts are extremely reluctant to terminate the rights of an adult. Most social agencies do not want to take on the expense of warehousing a mentally ill person. (I am assuming that whatever your neighbor is doing is rooted in some form of mental illness.)

Can you describe a bit more about what this neighbor is doing? Is this a single person living alone or is there an entire family involved?

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
In the end we were able to trick my mother into signing a power-of-attorney.


Then the POA was not valid and any withdrawal of funds so based constituted embezzlement ~ even though the intentions were benign.

Perhaps you meant to say: ... we were able to finally convince...
JoannaH1 (Tennessee)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Well I appreciate every ones opinion. And thanks for some of your info and personal stories.

This lady live with her husband. And 3 dogs. 2 of them always on her fence patio but one of them always lose in the street. (We have a leash law here in Gatlinburg and same law in the HOA book) she think she can do whatever she wants to. She take pictures of people houses she was found taking mail and putting back to their mail box. She's being taking by police because of so many issues. She is the kind of person that will put dog poop on your driveway just because you didn't say good morning back to her. She had the last month calling the police on different neighbors because someones dog is barking or because she walked in front of someone's house and heard the radio or tv. Always making this calls that police have to respond and then find out was just someone trying to make someone else miserable.

She didon't paid her water dues some home owners shut off her water and lock the valve. And she cut the lock and put one of her own and open the water. This done 5 times. And police was called and make a report but they can't do nothing until they see her doing this or with video or pictures.

Every new neighbor tried to be her friend and with the time realized that they couldn't because she was nuts. Already 2 neighbors move out because she was having law suit against them for stupid things and when she had court case she will go without lawyer or asking to postponed because she need more time for build her case. At the end she always lost but is the problem of having that experience over and over.

And more things like this... and the law is protecting us but they don't do nothing to her on less she touch someone.

Thanks.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is something the HOA could have done about the locks. There is a system called "Lock out Tag out" that electricans use. They have multiple holes to place locks on. That way no one can turn the circuit back on until ALL people take the locks off. You can find these at a local hardware/big box store most likely. Just ask for a lock out tag out tag... It's made of metal.

The other thing is if the locks were installed by the HOA, they should keep the receipts and charge them to the owner. These expenses would be considered "damages" in court of law. Although I am against lawsuits filed by HOA's against owners, there are some cases it makes sense. This is one of those. I would sue for the costs of the locks that were cut off. Plus any legal costs involved can be added.

Dog leash issues are best handled by the local animal control. The HOA is just not equipped to handle this issue. Call animal control each time. Eventually reports will be followed up on by them.

The other issue with the mail. This is a federal offense. The Post office has a whole department set up for this. If you have pictures of the act, call your local postal office. They should have some postal inspectors to follow up on this activity. They are NOT associate with your local police as they are federal officers. They usually cover district area.

There are ways to deal with people like this. Just can't make it a HOA issue but work with the resources outside in the real world.

Former HOA President
EmmaH1
Posts: 674
Posted:
Joanna,

Since she is in the wrong and has no legal basis for her claims maybe if everyone gives her no attention negative or positive she will give up and leave on her own. Sounds like has mental issues/plain crazy. (Hopefully she is not dangerous.)

She must like the attention. IGNORE HER eventually she will find something else to do with her time.

I's only address the dog issue if you can.

good luck
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes, they do have a legal reason to charge for the damaged locks. It is by all laws considered "Vandalism" if you want to go the criminal route and call the police. Otherwise it is called "Damages" and can be sued for in small claims court to recover the expenses.

I have only gone to college and taken some law classes... May know a thing or two on the subject... Just NOT a lawyer. However, I have dealt with this situation before. My advice is options you can take once you have exhausted all other remedies or methods.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 11/28/2014 6:51 AM
In the end we were able to trick my mother into signing a power-of-attorney.


Then the POA was not valid and any withdrawal of funds so based constituted embezzlement ~ even though the intentions were benign.

Perhaps you meant to say: ... we were able to finally convince...

No. We tricked her. We also tricked her into going into the nursing home by telling her it was the training school for being appointed to the federal bench. (She was so delusional at that point she really believed that at age 75 and without any legal background that she was going to become a federal judge.)

Technically you are correct about the invalidity of the power-of-attorney. I am guilty as charged and really ashamed of myself. As, I am sure, are all the other family members who participated and/or knew what we had done and remained silent.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
you did the wrong thing for all the right reasons

I would probably have done the same

I would have remained silent

you are one of the good guys

"peace on earth to all men of good will"
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
ps.

you will NEVER see Dante's ninth circle

(a good thing, 'google' it)
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 11/27/2014 6:41 PM
Ah Bob, you're ignoring the two where bad neighbors were ordered out by the courts. You were implying that wanting to force someone out was something that happened in North Korea, I just pointed out that you didn't have to go a totalitarian country for it to happen.

Again good digging by GlenL:

The articles he cited concern several of a mere a half dozen court ordered expulsions/compulsory unit sales in the last decade in Canada out of millions of ownerships. The court ordered sales occurred after months /years of vexation& substantially unrecovered legal costs to general owners.

Only 2 of those were formally accompanied by some formal designation of mental illness ( a consent & capacity board process within my own jurisdicition). One ousted, certified owner was shockingly identified by name in the court order and even in subsequent legal articles !

One disruptive B.C. scenario was largely centred on an autistic minor child.

An aspect is that Property Rights here do NOT have an entrenched degree of protection similar to that of the US constitution nor state counterparts, however jeopardized some may think they can be. But of course not summarily dragged out and shot North Korean style either.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoannaH1 on 11/28/2014 9:02 AM

She didn't paid her water dues some home owners shut off her water and lock the valve. And she cut the lock and put one of her own and open the water. This done 5 times. And police was called and make a report but they can't do nothing until they see her doing this or with video or pictures.


Can you clarify this for me? You stated that "some home owners shut off her water and lock[ed] the valve." Was this action taken by your association or was it done by frustrated neighbors?

If your association supplies water to homes, your association should already have rules in place when water usage has not been paid. I assume that somewhere within those rules is to lock out the non-payer.

Since this person has a history of cutting off locks, my first recommendation would be to amend the rules to something like this: "If a homeowner has at any time in past removed an association lock on a water line, the association may at its sole discretion hire a licensed contractor to physically disconnect the home's water line without additional notice. The cost of physically disconnecting and reconnecting the water line shall be a lien upon the property."

Quote:

Already 2 neighbors move out because she was having law suit against them for stupid things and when she had court case she will go without lawyer or asking to postponed because she need more time for build her case. At the end she always lost but is the problem of having that experience over and over.


Many states have statutes that impose penalties for filing frivolous lawsuits. The catch is that the defendant must request relief. The courts seldom impose penalties without a request.

The neighbors who moved out may have grounds for seeking damages against the offensive homeowner but it is up to them to seek relief. If they are willing to eat their losses then there is not much you can do to assist them.

You might consider trying to amend your CC&R's to give your association control over who may occupy a property. Perhaps someone can offer up some language that would allow the association to oust a troublesome occupant. I do not believe that an association can prevent anyone from owning property but they may be able to control who occupies it provided it does not violate the owner's civil rights.

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