Standards for Lawns

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MichelleL (Florida)
Posts: 16

Posted:

I am on the BOD of a 170 single family home HOA in Florida. We have been trying to establish standards to enforce our Exterior Maintenance Responsibility of Owners.

It reads:

General standards of the community shall include but not be limited to;

No weeds, underbrush or other unsightly growth shall be permitted to grow or remain upon any portion of the Proberites, and no refuse or unsightly o bjects shall be allowed to be placed or permitted to remain anywhere thereon.

Now it is probably impossible to have NO WEEDS, so we need to come up with wording.

One suggestion was:
A lawn with visibly noticeable weeds is unacceptable and below community standards.

Is this realistic and livable?

What do your communities have in place to prevent lawns made up of mostly weeds?

Thanks!

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MichelleL on 05/02/2007 11:26 AM
I am on the BOD of a 170 single family home HOA in Florida. We have been trying to establish standards to enforce our Exterior Maintenance Responsibility of Owners.

It reads:

General standards of the community shall include but not be limited to;

No weeds, underbrush or other unsightly growth shall be permitted to grow or remain upon any portion of the Proberites, and no refuse or unsightly o bjects shall be allowed to be placed or permitted to remain anywhere thereon.

Now it is probably impossible to have NO WEEDS, so we need to come up with wording.

One suggestion was:
A lawn with visibly noticeable weeds is unacceptable and below community standards.

Is this realistic and livable?

What do your communities have in place to prevent lawns made up of mostly weeds?

Thanks!

Is this wording in your CC&Rs? I don't think the change in wording that you are proposing is worth an ammendment to the CC&Rs. It's not objective, it's subjective. "Visibly noticeable" and "community standards" could be interpreted differently by different "inspectors".

You can put a height restriction. Many weeds grow higher and more rapidly than turfgrass. You might as well say "neatly mown, edged, and well kept".

In our case we have nothing (that I can remember) that specifically specifies the makeup of a lawn other than a specification that lawns be "sodded".

Ron
SC

HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314

Posted:

What is a weed? I don't know if you grow dichondra in FL but I remember that it is not a true grass, and was actually considered a weed at one time. So where would that fall in your scheme of things? Are you going to describe what is a weed? We have many wildflowers in Arizona. Some people deliberately sow them in their front lawns. They are beautiful when blooming, but otherwise quite unattractive. This has always been a problem for HOAs here to deal with. Good luck on yours. Harold

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaroldS1 on 05/02/2007 2:49 PM
What is a weed?

from http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/weed

"Main Entry: 1weed
Pronunciation: 'wEd
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old English wEod weed, herb; akin to Old Saxon wiod weed
1 a (1) : a plant that is not valued where it is growing and is usually of vigorous growth; especially : one that tends to overgrow or choke out more desirable plants "

Basically, a plant growing where it is not wanted. Crabgrass growing in a Bermudagrass lawn would be considered a "weed".

Flowers growing in a lawn would be considered "weeds". Grass growing in a flower bed would be considered "weeds".

Ron
SC

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Ron:

You beat me to it, a weed is a plant growing where it is not wanted. Maybe the homeowner wants crabgrass and dandelions, then technically it isn't a weed.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

What a great Board. Having a degree in Horticulture, when I first read the OP I knew right away they are going to have a problem with the word "weed".

Yes, it is a plant growing where it is not desired...making a tomato plant growing in my lawn a 'weed' ONLY because "I" don't want it growing there. This is another possible legal nightmare waiting to happen depending on how a HOA handles it.

Question is, does the HOA or the Owner determine what is 'desired'. Hmmmmm.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 05/03/2007 4:48 AM
What a great Board. Having a degree in Horticulture, when I first read the OP I knew right away they are going to have a problem with the word "weed".

Yes, it is a plant growing where it is not desired...making a tomato plant growing in my lawn a 'weed' ONLY because "I" don't want it growing there. This is another possible legal nightmare waiting to happen depending on how a HOA handles it.

Question is, does the HOA or the Owner determine what is 'desired'. Hmmmmm.

The HOA determines what is to be planted and how it is to be maintained. Not specifically, but within certain guidelines.

True story:
A friend of mine grew up in a neighborhood without an HOA (this was in the fifties and sixties and HOAs were uncommon). He moved out when he married, but his father still lives in the original house. It's a neighborhood of small houses and as with many such neighborhoods, the original owners have moved on and immigrants have moved it. My friend's father's neighbors are immigrants and plant their front yard in sweet corn each year. Corn!

It's hard to anticipate what a homeowner will do with his or her property, that's why we need the the covenants and such.

Back to the original question, this is what we have:

"SECTION 26 – Maintenance of Front Yards. All front yards must be sodded, and grass kept neatly mowed. If not kept in accordance with the above, the ACC shall have the right to mow said yard, and charge lot owner for cost."

If I had the power to re-write the above, I would include language to require edging wherever turf meets concrete. I would also put in language on weeds. Perhaps a percentage of the lawn that may be weeds.

I think problems such as this are the reason that many of the newer associations include lawn maintenance in their association fees. That way, the HOA is responsible and can maintain the lawns to a high standard without the fussing and whining of a few homeowners and the compliance problems.

Ron
SC

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Hey Ron,

Putting aside the definition of a 'weed',

You say "A HOA determines what is planted"

I don't know about you but I don't normally PLANT 'weeds'. Seeds blow into lawns (dandelions), roots spread (quackgrass), unless topsoil is sterilized there are weed seeds in it just waiting to sprout.

Best defense is a healthy lawn, so maybe stick with things that achieve that such as proper nutrition, watering, mowing etc?

Ron, how are you going to put a certain percentage 'weeds' if the definition itself clearly leaves it open to interpretation?

I suppose you could list list genus/species of those plants YOU define as a weed. Get out your id book Ron cause you're going to be busy fining pretty much every owner.

Pesticides are being discouraged/banned in many municipalities so controlling what some define as weeds becomes more onerous depending on environment/soil types/drought etc.

Bet yah there are plenty of weeds in your lawn Ron. Most lawns are a mix of grasses in order to tolerate different conditions. 100% of any one grass is just asking for trouble. Should you be fined because you have weeds Ron?

Lady down from me was trying everything for her severely damaged lawn (winter & grubs). HOA was talking about hiring someone to come resod her lawn and bill her. Lotta good that would do since the grubs would just destroy that one too!

Discussion and discretion are too things sometime lacking with HOA. Working to a reasonable solution should be the goal.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

DJ:

One doesn't need a degree in horticulture, and after caring for athletic fields as part of my job for almost 10 years I think I am little more apt to know what I am doing.

You say 100% of one kind of grass will not work and is asking for trouble, I beg to differ. I have 100% tall fescue in my yard and it seems to be working fine. We grow 100% bermuda on athletic fields and that works just fine. Anyone who has dealt with a lawn and cares knows three things. 1)Weeds will always grow, the only sure way to get rid of weeds is to pull the entire root out and stay on top of it. 2) Healthy lawns will help reduce weeds, 3) no matter how much you try you will always have some repair needed after a winter season.

A Nice looking yard is a full-time job, I know, my looks nice and I spend a lot of time in it. You lawn is as nice as you want it to be, I want mine to be nice, so I work hard at it.

They have been banning certain pesiticides for many years because they were so toxic, most nowadays are so ineffective I wouldn't waste money on it. Those that are effective I wouldn't advise any homeowner to spray unless they knew what they were doing.

Bottomline, the HOA sets guidelines and owners are expected to follow it. I think we are all smart enough to realize that if you have dandelions all over your yard and 18" tall weeds that isn't acceptable. Common sense needs to rule and each HOA is different.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

BradP,

I did not say 100% of one kind of grass will not work, I said 100% of any one grass is just asking for trouble. To clarify, I was referring to this from the standpoint of genetic diversity, something Mankind is losing in many areas due to our plant/animal breeding practices.

There are plenty of examples where a pest (insect/disease) ravages a particular type/species of plant and if we rely one one particular species to fulfill our goal it IS asking for trouble.

JM2 (Oregon)
Posts: 439

Posted:

Hi Michelle:

I would keep the standard as is.

However, I would try to define (unofficially) at what point you enforce the standard - with one dandelion popping up, it would take an extremely controlling board to be sending out a violation letter. It's somewhat a judgment call. I work as the "compliance coordinator" for an HOA, I've done portfolio management. When there are a few weeds, you take note of it; when they are growing to a foot tall in the beds, or there are noticable patches of clover in the grass, or multiple dandelions in the lawn, then you let them know that they need to clean things up.

The last thing I would do would be to change it to: "There must be less than 10 weeds visible in the yard," or something of that nature. Keep the standard as no weeds. It's like peeling paint - when it's clear there's a problem and it's not being dealt with, you address the problem directly.

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

DJ:

I understand, that is why it is your job as a homeowner to recognize the signs of insect problems and take appropriate steps to rectify. If you mix grass types often all they do is compete with one another. For example, Bermuda is very aggresive and tends to choke out other grasses.

JC3
Posts: 290

Posted:

One man's trash...
I know several people who grow dandelions. This herb has medical uses, and the flowers make an icredible wine. It's one flower that can always be counted on to show up. In the garden, and not in a lawn, it is a good herb to grow, and generally easy, too.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

In our HOA it was required that ONLY Bermuda sod be planted in the FRONT yard. It didn't matter if you had shade issues where the grass wouldn't grow. It had to be Bermuda SOD.
Our HOA's ONLY real responsibility was to lawncare. That's the only thing our documents say that the HOA is responsible for. So we hired a contractor to spay the yards 2 times a year with weed control. They treated ONLY the front yards. The backyards were the owner's domain for the most part. If the owner wanted that area mowed, they had to keep their gates unlocked for the lawncare to get in. Otherwise, they did NOT get their backyards mowed. They could have a garden if they choose as long as it was in the back. My house I put in an artificial pond with gravel surrounding it.
We did have one major issue with a homeowner. The homeowner decided to "plant" PLASTIC Flowers in the front yard!!! I had soo many complaints that I had to have them ripped out. It's okay to plant flowers and maintain flower beds in the front yard but NOT to have signs, plastic flowers, or any item that could cause harm.

Former HOA President

JanM (Texas)
Posts: 142

Posted:

I spent hours last year sitting and pulling weeds. I had so many "bald spots". I would then put grass seed in those spots and guess what? This year I have weeds, albeit a different kind from last year, so I have given up. I figure as long as it is green and they are not the tall spiky ones, it'll be just fine.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanM on 05/04/2007 6:29 AM
I spent hours last year sitting and pulling weeds. I had so many "bald spots". I would then put grass seed in those spots and guess what? This year I have weeds, albeit a different kind from last year, so I have given up. I figure as long as it is green and they are not the tall spiky ones, it'll be just fine.

Nobody ever said maintaining a good looking, healthy lawn was easy, but it's part of the responsibility of owning a home, just as maintaining the building. If one cannot do this one's selfe, it may be a good idea to contract with a lawn maintenance service. A lawn that's not maintained will eventually need to be replaced and that's pretty expensive.

Ron
SC

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 05/03/2007 7:15 AM
Hey Ron,

Putting aside the definition of a 'weed',

You say "A HOA determines what is planted"

I don't know about you but I don't normally PLANT 'weeds'. Seeds blow into lawns (dandelions), roots spread (quackgrass), unless topsoil is sterilized there are weed seeds in it just waiting to sprout.

Best defense is a healthy lawn, so maybe stick with things that achieve that such as proper nutrition, watering, mowing etc?

Ron, how are you going to put a certain percentage 'weeds' if the definition itself clearly leaves it open to interpretation?

I suppose you could list list genus/species of those plants YOU define as a weed. Get out your id book Ron cause you're going to be busy fining pretty much every owner.

Pesticides are being discouraged/banned in many municipalities so controlling what some define as weeds becomes more onerous depending on environment/soil types/drought etc.

Bet yah there are plenty of weeds in your lawn Ron. Most lawns are a mix of grasses in order to tolerate different conditions. 100% of any one grass is just asking for trouble. Should you be fined because you have weeds Ron?

Lady down from me was trying everything for her severely damaged lawn (winter & grubs). HOA was talking about hiring someone to come resod her lawn and bill her. Lotta good that would do since the grubs would just destroy that one too!

Discussion and discretion are too things sometime lacking with HOA. Working to a reasonable solution should be the goal.

DJ1, You're on a roll today (well, yesterday), aren't you?

Are you an HOA board member or volunteer? Are you even a member of an HOA?

We're trying to help a fellow board member write standards to maintain the quality of a neigborhood here. It's difficult to write standards on something like this, just as it would be for peeling paint, dirty siding, etc., yet we need to address these topics if we wish to keep the property values and quality of life in our neighborhoods at the same level as when we bought our properties.

A weed filled yard not only detracts from the neighborhood, the weed seeds blow into adjacent yards and cause the neighbors problems.

Can you provide some constructive suggestions on how to insure that members will maintain their lawns in good condition ? Wording for the covenants?

Ron
SC

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Jan:

One other thing, weeds are very aggressive by nature and will eventually choke out your grass if not taken care of. We all hate them (no one more than me), but it is easier to deal with a few as opposed to many. Ron had a great idea, if you don't want to deal with it there are many lawn care contractors that will deal with it for you.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Well Ron, I speak from an interesting position. I know the covenants better than most every other homeowner in our subdivision BUT due to a developer screwup I turned out not to have the CCR's registered on my property..therefore not a member of the HOA. (nor do I need to be to maintain my property to the same standards and yet I am the only home that is in 100% compliance with those same CCR's)

While the OP is looking for wording, my point, and it seems some other here as well, is that this may not be an area where you can clearly provide wording that will achieve what they want WITHOUT causing further difficulities.

I often take the 'devil's advocate' position not to be mean but to make the argument that no doubt some homeowner (or their lawyer) will do.

Maybe it is too dificult to EFFECTIVELY incorporate specific wording to exclude 'weeds'...unless you really want a long winded covenant or want to wind up in court.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

PS. Many CCR's already contain a clause prohibiting 'nuisances' which may be detrimental or impact other lots. If you get too specific you might as well do what I suggested and just list all the species of plants (weeds) you don't want.

PaulM (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 1,347

Posted:

DJ1:
If the Assn. is not responsible for maintainence of the lots/lawns, then the Assn. can only go so far in dictating how the lots/lawns should look.
IMO, if the weed is green, let it be. However, if the lawn is unsightly with tall weeds or unkempt grass then there needs to be wording to cover. A good word for a neat lawn is 'manicured'.

There will always be weeds. No matter how hard one tries to keep dandelions out, a neighbor's dandelion seeds will eventually create lovely 'yellow flowers' in your lawn as well.

You just need to come to a right perspective that lawns need to appear neat, trimmed, and well manicured. Anything other than that, or for a habitual unsightly lawn, is cause for violation. You can also follow up with names of landscapers in the area who will, for a fee, take care of the lawn to ensure its condition, if the owner cannot.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

This is the wording in the OP's CC&Rs:
"General standards of the community shall include but not be limited to;

No weeds, underbrush or other unsightly growth shall be permitted to grow or remain upon any portion of the Proberites, and no refuse or unsightly o bjects shall be allowed to be placed or permitted to remain anywhere thereon."

It's very weak. It does not even specify that the yard (at least the front or portion visible from the street) is to be planted in grass. If that's the only specification for ground cover in the CC&Rs, an owner could put in gravel, sand, vegetables, (read my previous post on the guy who planted sweet corn in his front yard), virtually anything as long as he/she kept it "weed free".

Personally, I would not prohibit an owner from putting a vegetable or flower garden in an area not visible from the street, but the areas visible from the street should have a better standard than is currently in place.

Requiring "turf grass" or "sod" is good start and requiring that they be "neatly manicured" or "regularly mowed and edged" would be a start. Requiring that they be "essentially weed free" could be added. Additional landscaping, flower beds, etc. should require approval from the ACC, ARB, or whatever it's called in this case.

Most of us know what is being sought here. A lawn that "blooms" is out of line and a detraction to the neighborhood.

Ron
SC

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Glad I live in a neighborhood that allows something other than grass to be the only thing visible in the front yard. Trees, shrubs, perennial, annuals all liven up the color scheme.

As far as corn, well it's already covered under the CCR's if they want... "other unsightly growth shall be permitted to grow or remain upon any portion of the Proberites".

One man's 'unsightly' is another's dinner.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

"Improvements and alterations" require ARC approval. EVERYTHING on outside the house therefore requires approval here so no fear of gravel front yards.

DwightT (Idaho)
Posts: 664

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 05/05/2007 6:17 AM
"Improvements and alterations" require ARC approval. EVERYTHING on outside the house therefore requires approval here so no fear of gravel front yards.

Well, not quite. I've heard about another neighborhood here (Meridian, Id) where one homeowner ripped out all vegetation from his yard and put in either concrete or gravel. This was a violation of the CC&Rs, and he did not seek approval from the ARC. After a couple of years of the expected legal wranglings, it wound up in court where the judge ruled that while the HOA was correct in enforcing the CC&Rs and the CC&Rs were valid, the homeowner was still allowed to keep his concrete and gravel due to a disability. Seems that shortly before it went in to court the homeowner claimed a disability: his wife had asthma that was irritated by the greenery.

To me this sounds like a shyster lawyer pulling a fast one: the disability claim only came up shortly before the actual court date. IMO, while the homeowner could have been allowed to keep his concrete and gravel, he should have been required to pay the HOA legal expenses since he didn't seek approval for the change first and the disability claim only came up after both sides had run up legal bills. Plus as was noted in another thread here, he should also be required to bring the property back into compliance with the CC&Rs before he sells.

On the other hand, this may just be an urban legend. While I feel that the source if fairly reliable, I've only heard about this from one place. But like most good urban legends, it's so outrageous that it must be true.

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DwightT on 05/05/2007 9:16 AM

Posted By DJ1 on 05/05/2007 6:17 AM
"Improvements and alterations" require ARC approval. EVERYTHING on outside the house therefore requires approval here so no fear of gravel front yards.

1. Like you said is it true or HOA urban legend.

2. If true, lets refer to the court documents to determine when the disability occurred. Maybe a fast one was pulled on the judge but a good judge would determine which occurred first, the concrete or the disabiilty as it is a fundemental fact in determining the credibility of the 'reasonable accomodation' claim...and if not, the HOA should FIRE their lawyer for not raising it!

3. We don't know the HOA/homeowner relationship. If the homeowner read the CCR's which clearly prohibit the concrete but decided he needed to take action for medical reasons NOW and he was not going to wait for the HOA to approve/deny him what he believed he was entitled to at the end of the formal process of consideration.

Everything on the outside of homes here does require approval of the ARC. Most things haven't gotten their approval.

RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DJ1 on 05/05/2007 9:33 AM. If the homeowner read the CCR's which clearly prohibit the concrete but decided he needed to take action for medical reasons NOW and he was not going to wait for the HOA to approve/deny him what he believed he was entitled to at the end of the formal process of consideration.

Everything on the outside of homes here does require approval of the ARC. Most things haven't gotten their approval.

The alledged dissability did not happen overnight (as confinement to a wheelchair night) so there was no reason he "needed to take action for medical reasons NOW ". He just did not care about the CC&Rs, he felt he was above them. If everyone is allowed to make their own decisions then there is no need for an ACC and probally no need for an HOA, the community will turn into a dump pretty quickly.

As far as replacing a front lawn with gravel and concrete, this will not help the person's health as long as the rest of the homes have lawns and trees. A mask or medication would.

No ACC is going to approve this change unless gravel lawns are already standard for the area. If it's a valid medical reason (and it's not), they should require the area to be turned back into an acceptable lawn when the person is cured or moves away. And they should require a deposit to ensure that this is actually done.

Ron
SC

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Ron,

1. Some people don't disclose their medical conditions to their neighbours.

2. Dwight said NOTHING about a wheelchair, he said "his wife had asthma that was irritated by the greenery."

Ever had allergies Ron? Yeah he wanted relief NOW not sometime in the future when the ARC 'might' approve his request.

3. Remember the logic used for not wanting weeds, cause they'll spread from your neighbour. Guess what, they can travel MUCH further ie from outside your nice HOA, on animals coming through etc.

4. We DO agree on your last point, when they move they should have to restore it back to comply with the CCR's.

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