FL- ? about looking at Association records

I am in a Florida HOA. I know FS617 and FS720 allow members to look at Association records. I joined the Board because of rampant illegalities on the Board. My question is this. I want to submit in writing, per FS720 to look at some specific records. The Association, per FS720 has 10 business days to comply. It may seem like a conflict of interest on my part if I go searching for the records. Our Association has a rented U-Store room with all our records. Every Board member is supposed to have a key.

I want to be able to say, "I exclude myself from going to the store room to look for records I am requesting because I feel that is a conflict." I just don't want the other Board members to say, "fine, you want the records, you go find them." Plus, the other Board members may accuse me of deliberately not finding the records I request just so I could collect a $500 damage. FS720 states that if records are not produced by 10 business days, the person requesting records is entitled to damages of $50 per day for up to 10 days.

Any thoughts?

David, you have the statute wrong. You only have to be given access within 10 days. From the way you wrote, it sounds like you are trying to collect a reward for not being able to find something.

This is from the FL state statutes:
(a) The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection.
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.

If the previous board did not do a good job of keeping records doesn't mean you and everyone who goes looking for the missing board minutes gets money. That would be pretty ridiculus wouldn't it? Everyone in the association gets $500, then everyone gets to pay a special assessment of $500 to cover the additional expenses incurred by the association.

Kevin

I've got something to add this discussion...

I live in a HOA is Florida.

Another member has been formally asking to view the records of our HOA for three years!!! THREE YEARS! And they outright have refused to comply!!!!! Over 200 requests on record! Now... He is suing the board. Now... He lawsuit is asking for compensation. If I'm reading the statues right he will be entitled to it. The problem... The courts do not want to get involved and are very slow to make judgments.

My question is.... What are they hiding?

They may not be hiding anything. They may just think they don't have to show the records. We have had board members who thought that.
Yes, the courts don't want to take these cases on. That is why the new FL statute 720 requires mediation first for HOA conflicts.

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This has been to mediation! The HOA's attorney outright refused to allow any records to be release. They actually let the member rent a room for mediation ($200.00) pay the mediator ($200.00) then on the day before the meeting cancel the meeting. I read the attorney's letter myself. Shocking to say the least! If I'm correct this opens the HOA to sanctions! Why not just release the records baffles me. A logical person would think somethings up. But you know what.. No one but a select few out of a hundred or so knows about it. But in doing my own research it suggests that it may not deliberate but a lack of accounting knowledge and organization. The board is afraid they screwed things up so bad that people with accounting background will see a lot of mistakes and make it public. And the members will vote them out.

Just another point I keep suggesting about getting the information out to the members. If the board makes a mistake most people will understand and the boards inexperience in accounting or organization skills can learn from the mistakes.

"This has been to mediation! The HOA's attorney outright refused to allow any records to be release. They actually let the member rent a room for mediation ($200.00) pay the mediator ($200.00) then on the day before the meeting cancel the meeting. I read the attorney's letter myself. Shocking to say the least!"

If the meeting was cancelled then how could it have been mediated? Do you really think the attorney acting in accordance with FL law as you understand it? Is s/he being ethical or is just using bullying/SLAPP tatics to CYA of the BOD (see bellow) and intimidate the owner who is entitled the information? The homeowner is out $400 now and probably really mad. Is this how your community is? I think you need a new lawyer!

"The board is afraid they screwed things up so bad that people with accounting background will see a lot of mistakes and make it public. And the members will vote them out."

Then they should get cracking and perform an audit! I'd recommend an independent third party with HOA experience. If problems are discovered during the audit then start investigation/accounting for them and implementing appropriate controls. If the board can't or won't account for their actions then they should be voted off. If on the other hand they are proactive in getting the HOA in control they should have anything to worry.

Good luck.

Dale - even if this Board has D&O insurance, they might not cover them because of the 3 years of stalling might not be considered "doing as well as can be expected by volunteers." So the lawsuit may very well go after the board members as individuals for deliberate stalling and not be an expense to the members. No one should think the D & O insurance is always there for you. They are an insurance company and if they can get out of paying they will. Harold

Suing the HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. Your paying out both ends! I think you need to slow down a bit and breath. It sounds like you have many issues going on at once. Take one at a time and break it down.
What benefit are you looking for if you do look at these records? Is there one besides fighting to have the right to look at them? Can't see the forrest for the trees?
If there is something wrong, like the $500 damage you claim, then it has to be proven. Although I HIGHLY recommend NOT going to court, I can see that advice may not be headed. So if you do decide to pursue this matter in court, then the HOA will have to provide these records when they defend themselves in court. The records will have to be turned over to your attorney as part of "discovery". Both sides must have the same oportunity to defend itself. Hence you will get your records.
I will tell you from my own experience, going through HOA is NOT the way you invision it to be. The boxes of records, (if any) are most likely so disorganized and mangled, that you could spend hours going through one box. I spent over 4 hours looking for the original signed contract of our lawncare person! Plus, you can't judge how things were handled by looking at the records. Every record your looking at is at 20/20 hindsight vision.
Many homeowners want to look at the records anytime they feel the least bit slighted. They must be hiding something or know they did wrong etc... Most likely no one knows the answer. These are NOT professional people running your HOA. It is VOLUNTEERS who do. They are people just like yourself who took it upon themselves to be active in their community. How are they supposed to know the laws and to intrepert them if they aren't lawyers?
Just simply request the records that pertain to your issue and start from there. Don't ask for the moon and complain when you get moondust. Your asking too much, and don't have a direction for this information to flow to create better changes.

Brad, you may be shocked to read this... but I attempted to sue my HOA once! :0! It was after I resigned being president. The new board was under the influence of an enemy (previous president who ripped off the association before I stopped him). This person convinced the new board of rules that were not correct and benefited him. He convinced the board that they needed to do an expensive Pool repair that wasn't quite the repair work that was needed. Part of it involved hiring him to repaint the clubhouse and fence I had just finished with paint guaranteed for 20 years. The other part of the repair was to repair the bottom of the pool due to some sharp edges.
The reported cost of this repair was $8,000. He convinced the board that they needed to have a "one-time special assessment" of $150. We have 107 patio homes. You do the math. (107 X 150=16050). Now the last time I checked, a special assessment is to cover the estimated cost of the repair bill and then divided equally amongst the homeowners. If it is a $1000 repair and you have 10 houses, each house is responsible for $100. You do NOT assign a erroneous amount that sounds "reasonable" when it comes to a special assessment. It's okay to compensate for possible overruns or known non-payers but NOT grossly over. A HOA MUST state what the entire assessment is for and exactly where the money is going. You can't just collect money just for the sake of collecting money. It has to have an assigned purpose.
I wasn't alone. I had approximately 13 homeowners supporting my actions. They understood the situation and didn't agree to the full $150 amount. Yes, the repairs needed to be done. I did research and the repair they were paying for was the extreme repair that had other cheaper recommendable solutions. Plus the paint to be used on the clubhouse/fence was of cheaper water down variety and sprayed on by a sprayer.
So with the 13 owners we GROUPED together to protest the special assessment. We hired an attorney to send them a letter to force them to follow the correct rules of having the assessment. This required the board to go door to door to collect the required signatures. Something they had NOT done. I forced them to show me and the others proof that the votes were approved and taken by majority of the owners. It was when they gathered this vote correctly that we stopped pursuing them legally. They did pass the special assessment but I made sure they did it by the rules without setting foot in a court room.
I was lucky. Since the property was considered "investment" property (I was renting out my HOA home) I was able to take the legal fees I paid and deduct them from my taxes. I also did NOT pay the special assessment EVER. I sold my home before they could take any kind of action. If I had NOT had a group of supporters behind me, I would have NEVER hired the attorney to pursue. It's ONLY worth the effort IF you have a majority or good group of homeowner's behind you in the suit. The situation has to happen amongst multiple homeowner's before a lawsuit is worth the effort against the HOA.
It's worth to note that the HOA board did get their "vote" due to the fact of their "creative" story telling. Apparently AFTER the money was raised, the other homeowners figured out they had been ripped off and lied to. They were NOT happy. I must have gotten a dozen phone calls with residents reporting that they were told multiple stories that weren't true in order to get their vote. Unfornately, I could just tell them "I told you so!".
So don't assume that I haven't been on the other side of my HOA. I once had a board member physically attack me and chase me out of a meeting! I can understand why some people can get frustrated at their HOA and feel completely helpless against the situation. I just choose now to share my "inside" knowledge with others so they won't feel victimized or helpless against their HOA. Each person has a right and a vote to make changes in their HOA if they are willing to participate and obey the rules.

Well Dale,

This is exactly why I got involved in my association. You see I have almost twenty years bookkeeping experience and after buying into an association (1st mistake), I received the budget and read it (mistake #2). As soon as I looked at I immediately knew something was wrong. We had MAJOR expenses with minimal in return. Let me clarify, home owners maintain everything. We are responsible for our units. They are not attached units. Nothing on the individuals sites is maintained by the association as a whole. If my roof goes, thats my problem, we have no pool, just a few minor ammenities, shoddy playground, etc. But our expenses were crazy, we were paying everybody, their bother, sister, wife, dog & cat to do things that we were already paying an on site manager to do. I requested to see a bank statement of the reserve fund(mistake #3 & biggest), and that's when it really hit the fan. See it was all but gone. I signed on as treasurer because now I not only wanted to see everything but needed to. Our docs state that anything over a set amount needed home owner approval. NP the board would just pay in increments just under that amount, most checks were cut to the on site manager or BOD members, with absolutley no records. Money was moving in and out of accounts so it was almost impossible to see if the collections were done properly or not. By this I mean S/A money was deposited into operating accounts, operating acct money was deposited into reserve, reserve into activity, and so on and so on. It was an unbelieveable mess.

But at the end of the day one thing remained constant the reserve funds were all but drained. I brought this to the owners, thought they would request an independent audit, it's their money after all, nope didn't happen. They prefer to be like sheep led to the slaughter. They instead were upset that I would question volunters. The rational was they don't get paid, so what do you expect. UH, your reserve accounts are gone! Someone got paid people.

They also were very reluctant to give out records and in the beggining I thought it was inexperience. I could write a book and might with the excuses that I was given when asking for records. Which even as treasurer I did not receive. In my experience these people are well versed in the art of manipulation. Trust me they are all in business, some with very high positions, they know all to well. I reported it to the authorities, in the end the AG office would not get involved (private matter), I have read that the FBI is interested in these type of cases so I may go there next. But I have been harrased (police needed to respond), threatened, reported to the building inspector(eye roll), all documented. So my advise would be, be careful what you look for you just may find it and once you do you now will have to deal with the knowledge.