committee procedures

Didn't someone, Tim, I imagine, cite BA statutes to your previous post that say committee meetings must be open? Or is my memory flawed?

There really are only a few options:

1) Live with it (not always desirable)
2) Gather support to vote those who allow it out of office and replace them with those who won't allow it (not easy, takes time - that is it won't happen overnight and, to be honest, it's not always successful - depends on the rest of the membership).
3) Litigation (expensive, time consuming and energy draining)
4) Move

Unfortunately, many simply choose options 1 or 4. Option 3 is very difficult to do alone and many simply don't want to put in the effort to make option 2 a viable option.

In my Association, I initially chose option 1. Figured if they leave me alone, I'll leave them alone. That option worked for 10 years. Then the Association started to mess with me and I chose to exercise option 2. Option 2 took three years and until the end of the three years time frame, I honestly didn't know if I had support from the membership or not. Then, there was a meeting of the general membership to discuss an issue I was lobbying against (as I believed the Board didn't do their due diligence). I told my wife that if this passes, I'll stop trying to gather support. At the meeting I was pleasantly surprised when the members, not me but people I hadn't even spoken to except through my newsletter, started asking the same questions I was asking. I didn't have to say a word. The Board looked like deer in headlights as they had simply dismissed me and my newsletter as a disgruntled member.

So, things can change. However, it takes time and energy. Sometimes others are simply waiting for someone else to start.

I understand your frustration, I'm going through quite an ordeal in my HOA now. It would be great if you could just change who's running it but if you have a small community with a handful of homes it is easy for a "clique" of homeowner to run the show and keep control in their hands.

I right know am in the quest for justice! but it does get you stressed out and wonder if it's worth it or if you should just let them be dictators. (I'm not yet at the point to just "let it go" but I completely understand the others points).

Good Luck with your issue

Yes, committees serve at the pleasure of the Board and someone from the board should oversee them. We also use a Board Liaison approach unless a director is on the committee.

We also have Guidelines for All Committee in my HOA that every comm. member gets. It's a document from our Mgmt. Co. that we revised for our HOA. IT says that Committees must meet once a month, must vote on committee topics, must present their minutes and recommendations to the board in writing once a month. Much of what's these Guidelines are form CA Corps. Code as our won bylaws are quite silent about the topic.

We also have a charter for each committee also writing by our MC an revised by the various committees. th charter spells out things like whether the comm. has a budget, necessity for confidentiality if applicable, etc.

But if your Board won't use similar procedures...

So, if the Board won't require the committee to comply with VA statutes, go with Tim's 2nd option. That also is what we did and it took one year. It IS hard work!!

I feel your pain! Don't give up. Fight it legally, look up your laws and document everything. Send them written documentation of what they are doing wrong, send it certified).

"Ignorance is not bliss, Knowledge is" (Eventually I hope)

Good Luck

I think the post was about someone NOT being listened to and wanting help on how to be heard and get results.

My advice would not to allow cheater to cheat but to instead hold them accountable for their actions or lack of actions. Do it in a calm non-aggressive way stating and documenting facts only. But don't ever be afraid to speak up and be assertive when you know of wrongdoing, in the end people will respect you for it (or at least not mess with you because of it, lol).

They can't just ignore you it is incumbent upon the BOD respond to valid questions, that is their duty. (granted you can't harass them about every little thing but questions by any member should always be addressed).

p.s. Others that are silent might not be happy with what is being done either, their not speaking up could be for MANY other reasons other than that they are happy with how things are.

good luck

Emma, I like your style. Agree with the calm demeanor approach. You would not believe the verbal insults I've taken from our president by calmly suggesting the board comply with our governing documents and state law.

Tim, good advice as always. I've spoken with our Ombudsman (actually the last two) on several occasions over the last few years. We're generally on the same page. But I'm also interested in the seasoned views of many reading and posting on this site. Thanks to all.

More questions will come in the future.

John,

We are a relatively young homeowner controlled association. While our Articles were filed in 2005 and our Declaration in 2006, only the first two of three phases were nearly complete before the real estate bubble burst. When the market seemed to come close to a bottom I bought into our HOA in 2010 as part of the final phase, but we were still under developer control. That came to an end in January 2012 when the neighborhood was almost completely built out and I became a member of the first homeowner controlled board. We were 5 homeowners that really didn't know what we were doing with one person who had lived in the neighborhood the longest as our president. It quickly became apparent to me that our property manager was giving us poor advice on a number of topics, which prompted me to learn as much as I possibly could about HOAs in general, our governing documents, and Va. law. Unfortunately, our president at the time had a close relationship with the owner of our property management firm, and I was alone in my self driven education. As I brought things to light in board meetings that I learned we were clearly doing wrong and how we were consistently violating the rights of the homeowners and the law itself by making most if not all of our decisions through email, I became the black sheep. It was, and is very frustrating. We got two new board members in 2013 and it was my hope that things would turn around, but one of the new members wanted to be the new president to "right the ship". Unfortunately, he did not understand that decisions were made by a board, not the president unilaterally, and the other board members seemed to be shriveled up in the fetal position every time he commanded something (he is a former naval officer). My protests were ignored, and the board continued to do whatever they wanted to through email, even trying to change big ticket items we'd budgeted for like 2 fountains in our lakes.
Our president blew his stack when I refused to vote for a change through email. I asked him to simply bring his concerns to a board meeting and we could discuss it out in the open, but he freaked out.

Generally, the membership has no idea of his behind the scenes shenanigans because they almost never participate at the board meetings, and the other board members never challenge him on anything. But the members of the association do read his carefully worded language in the meeting minutes that quite often deliberately mislead the members (yes, I know the secretary was supposed to write the minutes). We probably have 8 board meetings a year and perhaps 5 or 6 different homeowners that have ever attended a meeting. It baffles me that we can have this degree of apathy in a neighborhood with close to 300 homes.

I resigned just a few months into this man's tenure on the board. I couldn't in clear conscience sit on a board with a man that lies at will. It is the strangest thing I have ever seen.

Particularly in compact communities including with elevator interaction, gotta pick and choose your battles.

Downside for example is I will pay a price for simply now backing off from Owner meetings here after a totally no-vires & also unincorporated waterfront HOA, began a trip into the Twilight Zone. What finally persuaded me to go out the door for good ( never any shrieking ) except volunteer labour & $ donations, was a dismissive, slope-shouldering Pantalanio-style Owner vote to violate real property law. 'It isn't personal" isn't a bad rationalization about flat out illegality, but how can it be otherwise ? Discreetly suggesting ADR goes nowhere, and in 20 years the POA has hired legal advice only twice. The most recent illegal vote outcome appears to have been somewhat negated by several police owners whose property rights were also infringed.

My terse maybe single question approach if at all ) has always been carefully worded to avoid making the front desk look bad. It usually came with a no-cost or low cost solution if possible.

With quorum issues the no-vires POA here has begun perpetuating its skillset level - or lack thereof - by recruiting new purchasers whenever possible onto the Board, effectively trying to duck inconvenient "legals".

Thus the "pick & choose battles" approach may postpone bad scenarios, platform the worst, but hopefully after I am gone.