HOA allowed Condo Neighbor to build a wall causing violation/ flooding

You might want to check with your city's Zoning Board to find out if that type of wall is allowed and your concern about flooding, also to make sure he pulled the proper permits. Next step unfortunately might involve hiring an attorney to pursue this.

Typically courts rule that water finds its own path. So if water is going into his garage and he blocks it, he solved his problem. Now if that same water puddles up and floods you, its your problem. This is done because the court knows it can't fight mother nature and any ruling will have no affect on the actual issue.

Talk your neighbor into being reasonable and coming up with a solution for the rainwater that works for both of you. Court will help neither of you.

Thanks, Steve.
Interestingly, neighbor entirely tore up his patio and re-poured it,but states that still "my" water would flow into his garage. Rain comes from above and will still flow in. They are predicting an "El Nino" year.
I was hoping that HOA would be liable for allowing him to violate their own CC&Rs and then expecting me to pay to repair it. I would call constructing a dam to be a "failure" of the system that existed when I bought.
No hope of negotiating with this guy-he acknowledged that we would have to tear up and repair "our" patio before he did the work that obstructed the drainage. I asked the HOA that if he constructed a wall, that it not alter our drainage before he even built it. He also "generously" offered to construct our new patio so he would profit from the problem he caused as well.
So, if I decided to suck it up, can the HOA control who I use to prevent flooding and the method of correction? The Handyman they want to use usually repairs the balconies around here (also exclusive-use common area and at HOA cost).

Depends on your documents that govern your HOA. No matter what, I suggest you can get bids yourself from different contractors. They might have very different views on how to attack this issue. Then submit the bid to the HOA for approval.

Thanks Steve.
I find it surprising that the CC&Rs I pay nearly $300.00 a month to the HOA to uphold have absolutely no meaning here. Do not want to discourage all advice, so keep it coming everyone.

In addition to everything else, be sure you have flood insurance. Your homeowner's policy will not cover damage caused by flood waters or rain waters, no matter whether others may have caused the water to flow into your home.

Thanks Larry.
Coincidentally, our HOA announced in our last meeting that they somehow neglected to get Flood Insurance for the past 2 decades and now FEMA or somebody was making them get it,causing a $20 rise in our monthly HOA fees. Wondering if my situation could prevent our HOA getting that flood insurance?

John, I respectfully disagree that having to spend 5K-or any cost to fix a perfectly good patio and outside of my patio common area walkway is "winning".

LL# : If I understand correctly, you have been ordered to re-construct your patio within the condominium corporation's common element (subject to your own unit's exclusive use ) because what you claim to have been "intentionally built by previous owners on both sides" at least 12 years ago, has allowed draining into your adjacent neighbour's garage.

This must mean that both sets of predecessor neighbours mutually intended your patio to drain into his yard, or that both did not care much or believe that the re-directed water would behave as it did, or that something has altered subsequently.

You do not mention whether there are overall subdivision drainage control stipulations in place imposed by the planning authority as part of the original project approval, in possible violation of which the predecessor(s) may have illegally altered the legal drainage. The patio approval may address that too.

That neighbour has carried out works on his side to try to halt your patio's drainage. He claims such have failed. He has offered to carry out on your patio whatever would halt the draining, presumably at the expense of ? your non-involved fellow owners.

As I understand you do not dispute the jurisdiction of your condo corporation as to its common element underlying the patio, but whether a recommended $ 400 French drain would succeed in halting the current drainage flow. ( or paid by you ? )

As part of the resolution, it may be worth taking a look into California drainage dispute law where - both upstream and down stream parties being able to prove that they have been "reasonable" - the leading case sees a presumption that the drainage changer (of the 'natural flow') must bear the burden. Presumably you are aware of that and want a reasonable solution. Hope it works out.

Thanks Bob.
As above, neighbor has successfully blocked "my" water but not his garage flooding problem if it rains. Several contractors agree that the elevations necessitate re-pouring my patio and then having drain and pipe to carry water to the opposite end of the complex. I have been told that I would be responsible to pay by the HOA, for what and how much to be announced. Neighbor just planned to profit by having me pay HIM as he is a licensed contractor (painting/windows/doors). I read the water law, and understand that the person who changes the path can be found responsible.

Also to clarify- Neighbor is NOT the same Handyman they want to do work, although Neighbor does do much of work for HOA. I haven't been ordered to do any work yet. I have been asking HOA to either 1)adequately fix problem on neighbor's side or 2)allow my contractor to fix problem on my side at HOA expense.

Hate to rain on your demand parade but have to point out reality. I am someonewho had this issue and dealt with it as President. So I feel I need to point out a few things. That way it can help you out in the long run and cause less frustration on everyone part.

No you can NOT demand the HOA use your contractor nor your idea for a repair. Sorry but the HOA money id ALL the members money. Which means the HOA BOARD is responsible for spending responsibly. If you want the HOA to pay for YOUR issue with THEIR money, they make the decision on what acceptable repair and contractor to use. You do NOT get to fix it and send them the bill.

Several reasons for this is that you have to establish the problem to your board and fellow members. It had tobe determined it is an issue they need to pay for and even to approve work to be done. They also have to decide how to pay for it and when they can afford it. Plus it takes 3 bids on most jobs if done properly. You can submit your contractor bid and solution but the HOA retains the right to collect more bids and solutions.

This not necessarily an insurance claim and does not always fall onto the HOA insurance. It may be your insurance you need to discuss paying damages. I do not know your HOA set up. Ours is that you own the house and the lot the house sits on. Everything outside is considered "COMMON PROPERTY". Which means the HOA is responsible to approve work done and fix issues.

I can not say this issue is not going to be your responsibilty to pay. You may have to work with your neighbor. It may require a french drain system. It could be installing weep holes in the wall. It could mean putting in a drainage pit or container. It could be regrading the property. All of which the HOA has to APPROVE before proceeding.

Did your neighbor just get approval for the work they did and pay out of pocket? Then you can not expect the HOA to pay for the repairs but to approve what solutions

Thanks Melissa.
I have been asking HOA to address this problem since February.The $400 French Drain solution was decided solely on my Neighbor's suggestion-the same Neighbor who previously said that my patio had to be torn up and repoured. When I pointed out that I couldn't accept that solution due to it not coming from an independent contractor,the HOA manager told be that was their Final Decision. I then asked if they could provide anyone to give a solution beside my Neighbor and they said no. I have consulted with several contractors (including my brother)who always say, "French drain to where?" as their first response...my patio is 16x24 feet and enclosed on 3 sides with walls and the 4th side has a small planter and narrow walkway in between more walls. I don't think I should have more contractors come out after I submitted a bid,and the HOA didn't ask for that but want to use their guy to do at least part of the work. They want my contractor (who is likely not amused) to advise their guy who apparently has not done this before. I realize that if they are paying, I may have to accept what they do, but if I am paying, I want to use someone who will do the job correctly. The HOA refuses at this time to make any alterations to my Neighbor's obstruction.

Thanks Melissa.
I already have my patio sandbagged. Not really a solution if I ever want to sell my place.
I will be away from my computer today, so if anyone has more suggestions, I will answer when I return.

Respectfully I now do not see this as a "demand parade" by LL3 nor by the neighbour who may both face a future, harsh, California, consumer disclosure legal requirement if that neighbour ( or LL3 for that matter eventually )will be selling. Sounds like both recognize and are presenting a "reasonable solution" / win-win / good faith scenario so far etc.

Given this does not sound like a "lot line condo" and that at least some of the water collection areas are exclusive use common element, the condo corp has to be involved in some way. The governance documents may even require HOA funds.

The original planning approval may have specified a subdivision wide ( wider ? ) specific drainage scenario now affected by many later improvements like roads, paving & garage construction wider than just these two neighbouring lots. Hopefully someone looked into that. It is usually not an easy claim as an "insurable loss" where damage was chosen-risked or was avoidable by prudent human intervention.

Drainage /( "nuisance" ?)claims can generate huge legal bills if the parties and possibly the condo/HOA etc does not respond competently and in good faith, which the so called "California Rule" encourages. Several :

North Carolina Court invalidates $ 489,000 in HOA fines ( $ 400 per day ) against detached homeowner after she installed - and eventually complied with orders to remove - French drains to rectify surface water flooding . After 10 years of litigation HOA fines are struck down after discovery that St Ives HOA in Mint Hill had (through its architecture committee) secretly approved the drains “Woman fights HOA to keep home after $489K of invalid fines” ( wcnc.com July 27/12 NewsChannel 36 online ) http://www.wcnc.com/news/editors-pick/Woman-fights-HOA-to-keep-house-over-invalid-fines-164061896.html

One from my jurisdiction : After years of litigation against subdivision neighbour's two downspouts, Mississauga widow has been hit with a total of $ 565,000 of her opponent's legal ( & engineering expert ) costs, PLUS her own. She was unable to overcome their establishing that the changes did not materially alter or at all the quantity/severity of drainage. ( Kay v. Caverson, 2013 ONCA 220 http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc/2013/2013onca220/2013onca220.html )

LL,

Given all the potential costs that you might incur in trying to remedy the problem on your own added with the facts that your association was somewhat responsible for causing the problem and is unresponsive to your concerns, and the fact that some or all of the work that needs to be done may occur on real estate to which you may not have an exclusive deed, may I suggest that your next step is to consult with an attorney?

Thanks Larry.
Appreciate the insight,I am trying to find out all info that will help me discuss this with the HOA and then a lawyer if needed. Interestingly, an assembly bill has passed here in Cali that stipulates that unless otherwise specified, HOAs will be responsible for exclusive-use common area repairs as of 2017. This cheers me because if the HOA makes an inadequate repair to my patio, they would be responsible to correct it at that time.