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RichardB29 (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posted:
We are a small HOA of about 220 members. A member (and past president) has made 33 requests for documents in less than one year averaging about 3/month. Statutes prohibit the Boartd from asking reason(s)or from prohibiting such frequent requests. There is much Assoc. speculation about the members reason(s) all of which precludes "need to know" or benefit of the Assoc. We have turned over each request to an attorney to insure that he is given an answer within the 10 day period provided by statute and our legal fees have exceeded $5400 in less than one year. The attorney is used because his first 3 letters were not answered promptly and he claimed 'fines' of $500 each. Attorny is being used to preclude additional claims for penalty. How can the Board be protected from frivolous and harassing reequests?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Simply give them the information or allow them to sue. Why protect yourselves from a lawsuit than let it happen? Seems the pound of prevention is costing you all 10 lbs of crap, What are the documents they want? It is not harrassment in they eyes of the court to make thses requests. Harrassment is criminal and police involvement. I would not consider this harrassment than bad communications.

Former HOA President
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Establish a REASONABLE per page fee for copies. (maybe 30 cents)
Establish a fee for mailing. (maybe @1.25 up to 6 pages)
Answer his letters promptly.
Use certified mail.

Voila - no more problem or issue.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardB29 on 11/11/2014 11:46 AM

We are a small HOA of about 220 members. A member (and past president) has made 33 requests for documents in less than one year averaging about 3/month. Statutes prohibit the Board from asking reason(s)or from prohibiting such frequent requests. There is much Assoc. speculation about the members reason(s) all of which precludes "need to know" or benefit of the Assoc. We have turned over each request to an attorney to insure that he is given an answer within the 10 day period provided by statute and our legal fees have exceeded $5400 in less than one year. The attorney is used because his first 3 letters were not answered promptly and he claimed 'fines' of $500 each. Attorney is being used to preclude additional claims for penalty. How can the Board be protected from frivolous and harassing requests?

Are you people nuts? You are putting your lawyer's kids through Ivy League colleges. Stop responding to the past president's numerous requests. No reasonable person makes 33 requests for documents in one year. Let him spend his money pursuing his harassing requests through the courts. Tell your lawyer the gravy train just got derailed but you hope his kids get a good education at the local community college.
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Why is it so difficult for the board to comply with the docs like the board expects homeowners to comply. aka fines
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Richard,

Have you read FL 720.303 (5)? In that chapter it states [emphasis added]:

(5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.—The official records shall be maintained within the state for at least 7 years and shall be made available to a parcel owner for inspection or photocopying within 45 miles of the community or within the county in which the association is located within 10 business days after receipt by the board or its designee of a written request. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community or, at the option of the association, by making the records available to a parcel owner electronically via the Internet or by allowing the records to be viewed in electronic format on a computer screen and printed upon request. If the association has a photocopy machine available where the records are maintained, it must provide parcel owners with copies on request during the inspection if the entire request is limited to no more than 25 pages. An association shall allow a member or his or her authorized representative to use a portable device, including a smartphone, tablet, portable scanner, or any other technology capable of scanning or taking photographs, to make an electronic copy of the official records in lieu of the association’s providing the member or his or her authorized representative with a copy of such records. The association may not charge a fee to a member or his or her authorized representative for the use of a portable device.
(a) The failure of an association to provide access to the records within 10 business days after receipt of a written request submitted by certified mail, return receipt requested, creates a rebuttable presumption that the association willfully failed to comply with this subsection.
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association’s willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.
(c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, records to be inspected, and manner of inspections, but may not require a parcel owner to demonstrate any proper purpose for the inspection, state any reason for the inspection, or limit a parcel owner’s right to inspect records to less than one 8-hour business day per month. The association may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including the costs of copying and the costs required for personnel to retrieve and copy the records if the time spent retrieving and copying the records exceeds one-half hour and if the personnel costs do not exceed $20 per hour. Personnel costs may not be charged for records requests that result in the copying of 25 or fewer pages. The association may charge up to 25 cents per page for copies made on the association’s photocopier. If the association does not have a photocopy machine available where the records are kept, or if the records requested to be copied exceed 25 pages in length, the association may have copies made by an outside duplicating service and may charge the actual cost of copying, as supported by the vendor invoice. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members.

Now for my comments:

Does the Association have a policy in place concerning access to records?

The Association can avoid the legal expenses simply by complying with the statute.

Have you considered placing the information on an Association website? This way, any member may access the info and the Board isn't inconvenienced by having to respond to requests for records other then to say "visit our website, they are available there"
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Tim cites one statute. Is there another that states exactly what kinds of materials your HOA is required to supply?

In CA, for instance, HOA don't have to compile records that aren't normally in one file. An owner can't ask our PM to, for example, tally all instances of noise violations over the past three years. Also, in CA., only the current year + th previous two years worth of records are required to be given. (Minutes, of course, must be kept forever and are always available.)
BobD4 (up north)
Posts: 1,002
Posted:
( RichardB29 Fla : " . . How can the Board be protected from frivolous and harassing reequests (sic) ?"

As noted above, the state has decided that the "purpose" of any owner's request is NONE of the business of the Board. Given that Richard described his community as a "HOA", Florida's chapter 718 (condominiums) is not triggered. The degree of transparency legislated in Ch 720.303 indicates that the legislature is hearing about lots of secrecy & potential abuse.

If "protection" is what the Board seeks, it should chase the Florida legislature to weaken that chapter. In the meantime that chapter allows a fuller cost recovery than many jurisdictions. Hire a paralegal if you have to. Adapt so much transparency to owners, that critics are bored to death and leave you alone. The question suggests that the Board needs to read its HOA law.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 11/11/2014 4:49 PM
Tim cites one statute. Is there another that states exactly what kinds of materials your HOA is required to supply?

Kerry,

Same statute. Click on the link. I only quoted part of it.
GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669
Posted:
The fix was referred to by another poster--index all Association records on a password-protected Association website.

Owners are entitled to ALL records (with very few exceptions) of the Association under FL HOA statute 720. Why don't MC's/BOD's just get over it and upload everything? BOD makes owners jump through hoops to get their own business reports. And to funnel it through an attorney? Owners should be outraged at the unnecessary expense!

In my HOA, the MC posts "minimal" financials which no one understands and few people even look at. Owners must then routinely request followup detailed reports and these are provided in a timely manner. Then, MC complains that owners take up too much time with records requests. This is a "duh".

The vast majority of all records is generated and stored electronically and available with the push of an Enter button. The minimal remaining paper--based source data must be scanned and indexed, a simple clerical task.

INDEX the record and UPLOAD everything including the pizza delivery tip. It only hurts the first time and, with repetition, becomes a habit. No more record requests. Problem solved. And the Association becomes the hero.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
I agree with Gwen. Quit acting like a bunch of bumbling old fogies get the job done. If you don't understand how to scan and upload, ask a 12-year-old kid.

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Larry,

The statutes do provide for a fine that may be claimed if the documents are not provided in 10 days. I say, skip the lawyer and just put the docs you can online. Allow easy access to the rest to prevent the hassle. The board works for members and asking for this is a right and duty, not harassment.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 11/12/2014 6:46 PM
Larry,

The statutes do provide for a fine that may be claimed if the documents are not provided in 10 days. I say, skip the lawyer and just put the docs you can online. Allow easy access to the rest to prevent the hassle. The board works for members and asking for this is a right and duty, not harassment.

So making 33 requests for documents over one year is a right and duty?

My guess that is not the motivation of the individual making these requests. DUTY that is.
GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GwenG on 11/12/2014 4:14 AM
The fix was referred to by another poster--index all Association records on a password-protected Association website.

Owners are entitled to ALL records (with very few exceptions) of the Association under FL HOA statute 720. Why don't MC's/BOD's just get over it and upload everything? BOD makes owners jump through hoops to get their own business reports. And to funnel it through an attorney? Owners should be outraged at the unnecessary expense!

In my HOA, the MC posts "minimal" financials which no one understands and few people even look at. Owners must then routinely request followup detailed reports and these are provided in a timely manner. Then, MC complains that owners take up too much time with records requests. This is a "duh".

The vast majority of all records is generated and stored electronically and available with the push of an Enter button. The minimal remaining paper--based source data must be scanned and indexed, a simple clerical task.

INDEX the record and UPLOAD everything including the pizza delivery tip. It only hurts the first time and, with repetition, becomes a habit. No more record requests. Problem solved. And the Association becomes the hero.

What about people who do not have computers? Even if they do they can say they don't and demand records.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeR8 on 11/13/2014 12:02 PM

What about people who do not have computers? Even if they do they can say they don't and demand records.

Although that can occur. It's rare when it does.

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