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RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122
Posted:
As I understand it, CCRs consist of the by-laws, declaration, and the adopted community rules. I am aware that revisions to the by-laws and declaration must be filed with the county recorder, but what about the adopted rules? These concern issues like late fees, noise ordinance, parking, etc.

We are currently in need of revising our current adopted rules to address new issues such as:

- Keeping your pet on a leash while on common property
- Keeping pets from being a disturbance to the community
- Cleaning up after your pet
- Taking out your trash bins only on pick-up day and bringing them back in the same day

However, if revisions to that document need to be recorded then that is a real downer. I hate to think that I'll have to run downtown to the county recorder every time a resident finds a new way to annoy the association. Can anyone explain the revision process when it comes to amending adopted rules?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Ron,

You misunderstand.

The CC&Rs are a stand alone document. They are also called deed restrictions.
The Bylaws are also a stand alone document.
The Articles of Incorporation, if incorporated, are a stand alone document.
Resolutions (additional rules/regs adopted by the Board formalized in writing) are individual documents.

All of those make up your Governing documents.

If you are in a condominium association, the Bylaws are typically recorded with the County as an attachment to the CC&Rs. Non-condominium associations typically do not record their Bylaws with the County. This may be where the misunderstanding comes from.

Resolutions should be kept by the Association, initially sent to all members when adopted or amended, and be included in any disclosure package an Association puts together. Our Association publishes all of our governing documents in one bound book that is given to all members and is part of the disclosure package.
RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122
Posted:
TimB4, thanks for the clarification. I won't lie and say that I understand all of this stuff like I should because I definitely don't.

So it's good news that the adopted rules (or resolutions) don't have to be recorded. This takes a huge weight off the board's back. I just want to make sure, though, that the same laws in your state regarding revisions to adopted rules also apply to my state of Ohio.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Is it required to be recorded? No
Is it a good idea to record them? Yes.

By recording them, it becomes public record. Over the years many homeowners will come and go. By having them as public record it informs everyone equally and less chances of people breaking the rules because they didnt know about them.

Whats the point of having rules and keeping them secret? Simply mail them in and record them.
RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122
Posted:
They won't be secret as we'll at least mail and email them to the residents. As for recording, I don't think you can just mail it in. I think you have to go to the country recorder office in person. We need to modify these rules fairly quickly and I don't have the time right now to go all the way downtown, so I'll file it in the association records for the time being.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Registry of Deeds charges us $10 per household for anything we file. If you have 250 homes, that would be $2,500.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
RonW7 (Ohio)
Posts: 122
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 10/17/2014 10:57 AM
Registry of Deeds charges us $10 per household for anything we file. If you have 250 homes, that would be $2,500.

Lucky for us, it's $28 for the first two amended pages and $8 for each additional page.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In our standalone homes HOA, our Covenants, Bylaws, and Rules & Regulations are all filed with the deed. Not that they need to be, but they are. I will have to check what it would cost to file any changes.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RonW7 on 10/17/2014 8:30 AM

I just want to make sure, though, that the same laws in your state regarding revisions to adopted rules also apply to my state of Ohio.

Glen has been our Ohio expert. He will likely offer an opinion over the next week.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Thanks Tim and for the record both Condos and HOAs must record the By-Laws for them to be valid in OH.

5311.08 (4)(b) The unit owners association shall be governed by bylaws. No modification of or amendment to the bylaws is valid unless it is set forth in an amendment to the declaration, and the amendment to the declaration is filed for record. Unless otherwise provided by the declaration, the bylaws shall provide for the following:

5312.02 (A) Any planned community in this state is subject to this chapter. No person shall establish a planned community unless that person files and records a declaration and bylaws for that planned community in the office of the recorder of the county or counties in which the planned community is located.

Rules don't have to be recorded but as others have said it is a good idea to.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
Registry of Deeds charges us $10 per household for anything we file. If you have 250 homes, that would be $2,500


We simply file it as a misc document in the HOA name. No need to file it under every house deed.

Sure mailing it to every house today notifies current owners. But as property changes hands, that stuff never makes it to the new buyer before or after they buy. Spend the $10 and simply file it. Its likely it will come up when a title search is done or someone looks up the hoa and finds them. Its very cheap, very easy and solves so many issues before they start.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
They won't be secret as we'll at least mail and email them to the residents. As for recording, I don't think you can just mail it in. I think you have to go to the country recorder office in person.


Personally, I've never seen a registry where you couldn't mail something in with a check and record it. But your registry might be different, who knows.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 10/17/2014 1:26 PM
Registry of Deeds charges us $10 per household for anything we file. If you have 250 homes, that would be $2,500


We simply file it as a misc document in the HOA name. No need to file it under every house deed.

Sure mailing it to every house today notifies current owners. But as property changes hands, that stuff never makes it to the new buyer before or after they buy. Spend the $10 and simply file it. Its likely it will come up when a title search is done or someone looks up the hoa and finds them. Its very cheap, very easy and solves so many issues before they start.

It started here in PA a couple of years ago, when the local Registries decided they could generate new revenues. There is some additional expense involved because the Registry does make a notation on each deed. We are trying to get the PA legislature to put some limits on these fees, but nothing so far.

I wish we could just pay $10 or $20 or $30, but that won't fly here.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 10/17/2014 1:26 PM

Sure mailing it to every house today notifies current owners. But as property changes hands, that stuff never makes it to the new buyer before or after they buy.

Actually, that would depend on State Statutes and, of course, individual Associations. Many States require disclosure packages that contain all the governing documents. For those States, the info would be included in that package.

Associations in States that do not have such laws may choose to make such disclosures available or, simply place them on a website that anyone may access.
RichardB28 (Washington)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I came up with a possible answer to this, together with applicable case law to back it up. This is WA state law, but I know the laws elsewhere are similar. So check this out: rtbaileyphd.com/src/recording.html
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Also check out LarryB13's excellent and well reasoned (IMHO) thoughts on the matter:

Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/22/2014 12:20 AM
Posted By RichardB28 on 10/21/2014 10:01 PM
Please see rtbaileyphd.com/src/recording.html and let me know what you think. I would especially like to hear from lawyers and title officers.


Richard,

If I understand correctly, your proposal is that an association could save money on the costs of recording by filing a single sheet of paper that includes links to websites where the documents are maintained. While it is probably legal (meaning that the recorder will accept and record the paper and you will not get arrested) I think this creates more problems than it solves.

One reason for recording CC&R's, for example, is to provide indisputable evidence of what the document states. By directing everyone to a website, the issue will always be whether the content of the website is an accurate statement and unaltered from the original. That is, does it say the same thing today as it did twenty years ago when I bought my property? You would be reducing recording costs at the expense of endless litigation.

When documents are recorded, the recording agency is a neutral party lacking motive to alter any part of any document. Most states impose criminal penalties upon public employees who willfully alter recorded documents. By putting the document on a website, control of the content never falls under the aegis of the recorder. The content remains in the hands of those who may have a motive to alter the text. This provides fodder for lawyers who will run up enormous bills dickering over the accuracy of the document.

Then there is the issue of keeping the website going. Once a document is recorded it remains a public document forever, even if later documents negate some or all of the terms of the original. This means that if you wish to enforce the terms of a document recorded as you propose you would have to maintain the website forever. It would seem to me that the cost of hosting a website for the next several centuries would far exceed the costs of recording the entire document in the first place.

To the best of my knowledge your proposal remains untested from a legal standpoint. I have no idea whether a court would even accept the idea that a party has recorded notice by pointing to a website instead of simply recording the actual notice itself. The statutes in my state provide that a recorded document may reference another recorded document but is silent as to referencing unrecorded material. A valid argument could be raised that by allowing the inclusion of referenced recorded documents the legislature chose to not include references to unrecorded documents under the principle of expressio unius est exclusio alterius (The expression of one thing is the exclusion of another).

Bottom line is that the benefit of paying less for recording documents is not outweighed by the costs of web hosting and potential litigation.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

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