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SamS4 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Our HOA board is having a big problem with home owners not only paying dues but participating on committees. They have allowed access to a supposedly closed board to a renter in the neighborhood because they don't have enough property owners to tap. Seems they haven't taken the hint nobody wants the HOA.

So the question is can an HOA allow a non-voting resident to participate in committees that will have an effect on the voting members/property owners?

Most of my research so far says that it wouldn't be legal. Any thoughts?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 09/30/2014 4:31 PM
Our HOA board is having a big problem with home owners not only paying dues but participating on committees. They have allowed access to a supposedly closed board to a renter in the neighborhood because they don't have enough property owners to tap. Seems they haven't taken the hint nobody wants the HOA.

So the question is can an HOA allow a non-voting resident to participate in committees that will have an effect on the voting members/property owners?

Most of my research so far says that it wouldn't be legal. Any thoughts?

Sam

Typically the answer will be in your docs. Ours docs say a BOD Member must be a lot owner (some also add must be a resident) but as I read, you are asking about committees. Our docs say committees are appointed by the BOD and serve at the BOD's will but they do not list restrictions on who is appointed, such as like must be a lot owner.

Renters are a heated area of debate. Ranging from they are the dregs of the earth to I would rather have a renter that cares then an owner who does not care.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/30/2014 5:43 PM
Posted By SamS4 on 09/30/2014 4:31 PM
So the question is can an HOA allow a non-voting resident to participate in committees that will have an effect on the voting members/property owners?

Most of my research so far says that it wouldn't be legal. Any thoughts?


Typically the answer will be in your docs. Ours docs say a BOD Member must be a lot owner (some also add must be a resident) but as I read, you are asking about committees. Our docs say committees are appointed by the BOD and serve at the BOD's will but they do not list restrictions on who is appointed, such as like must be a lot owner.

Renters are a heated area of debate. Ranging from they are the dregs of the earth to I would rather have a renter that cares then an owner who does not care.

Well said John.

Our organizing docs clearly allow for committees, but the only committee specifically mentioned is the Architectural Control Committee which must consist of 3 individuals selected by the Board. There are no other restrictions.

I don't think that my board would ever consider selecting a non-owner for the ACC. But, our policy is that any resident can join our Landscape Committee. We have one renter on the Landscape Committee, and we do get complaints that she is "a renter." The complaints do not come from other members of the committee - they come from owners who aren't on any committees.

So for us, the answer to your question would depend on the nature of the committee, the qualifications of the individual renter, and whether the complaining individuals are contributing their share.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 09/30/2014 4:31 PM

So the question is can an HOA allow a non-voting resident to participate in committees that will have an effect on the voting members/property owners?

As others have said, if there are no qualifiers written in your governing documents for serving on the committee, then they can serve. I don't think the committee should be made up entirely of non-members.

Personally, if a renter is willing to take enough of an interest to volunteer their time to serve, I wouldn't turn them down. However, I would discourage having them serve on the Board itself.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 09/30/2014 4:31 PM

Most of my research so far says that it wouldn't be legal. Any thoughts?

Are you willing to cite your research?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm asking Sam to cite his research too, Tim.

Our Board has a Guidelines for All Committees and it says the only committee that may include renters are the social committee and landscape committee.

Remember, Sam, Committees usually only may make recommendations to the Board, so an lone renter on one hardly seems like a decision-maker.

Our bylaws say almost nothing about committees except that the board may form them. So we have to get our info from CA Corps Code which spells out some requirements for Board committees. Among them: the Board supervises committees, may serve on committees, may serve as committee chairs, etc. It also distinguishes between committees with decision making authority & those without.

So, Sam does the committee the renter is on have any authority to decide anything? what kind of committee is it, anyway?
SamS4 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Maybe research wasn't the best choice of words. Poking around the net and found several
discussion forums and other sites that excluded non-"members" from participating in HOA committees and other board functions.

Looking back through the By-Laws (which I finally found while looking for something else) it states that our board appointments "members" to committees. A "member" is defined as an owner of a lot within the community. So if the board adheres to the By-Laws as they should a renter would NOT be allowed to be on a committee.

I appreciate the input.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Wait, Sam: Do your bylaws say that the the Board appoints committee members? Or that committee members must be members of your HOA?
SamS4 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 6
Posted:
From the by-laws:

Aticle II
Membership, Voting, Majority of CO-Owners ("Owners"), Quorum, Proxies

1. Membership. Except as is otherwise provided in the Declarations, the Articles of Incorporation or in these Bylaws, ownership of one of the Lots described in the Declaration is required in order to qualify for membership in this Association. Any person on becoming an owner of a Lot shall mandatorily and automatically become a member of This Association and be subject to the Bylaws......

Article XII
Committees

1. Designation. The Board of Directors may, but shall not be required to, appoint an executive committee, and it may designated and appoint members to standing committees or special ad hoc committees for any useful or worthwhile purpose to function in an advisory capacity to the Board of Directors. The Board may establish rules for the conduct of these committees and may delegate responsibility to said Committees.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 10/01/2014 5:11 PM

Looking back through the By-Laws (which I finally found while looking for something else) it states that our board appointments "members" to committees. A "member" is defined as an owner of a lot within the community. So if the board adheres to the By-Laws as they should a renter would NOT be allowed to be on a committee.

Actually Sam, I believe that that is a misinterpretation. "Members," used in that context refers to the individuals who will serve on the committee (i.e. a Committee Member). It does not refer to members of the Association.

Based on what you provided, it appears that anyone may serve on a committee within your Association.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 10/01/2014 6:15 PM
1. Membership. Except as is otherwise provided in the Declarations, the Articles of Incorporation or in these Bylaws, ownership of one of the Lots described in the Declaration is required in order to qualify for membership in this Association. Any person on becoming an owner of a Lot shall mandatorily and automatically become a member

Personally, I agree with Tim's assessment.

However, if you provided us with all of the relevant references to the word "member," I could see someone objecting on the grounds that the phrase "Except as is otherwise provided in the Declaration, Articles of Incorporation, or in these Bylaws" precludes anyone other than an owner from being considered a "member" of anything having to do with the HOA.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Sam

I think Tim and NPS are on the right track as in Committee Member does not mean the same as an Owner/Member.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I agree with Tim, NpS & JohnC and was trying to get at exactly that issue in my earlier post.

If the board only wants owners to serve on Committees, it's under no obligation to appoint non-owners.

Back to your original point, Sam: What kind of Committee is it? Does it have any money-spedning or or decisin-making authority? Is there something else troubling you with the Board, Sam, other than a renter being on a committee?
SamS4 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 6
Posted:
There are a number of committees they don't have enough people on:

Building and Grounds
Safety and Security
Social and Welcoming
Budget
Bylaw review

Just found out that several renters were given access to what was supposedly a Home owner only web page. The page was set up to provide home owners info from the HOA Board. So that is a bit troubling besides the committee aspect.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> There are a number of committees they don't have enough people on

So maybe you don't NEED all those committees.

You haven't clearly stated what you are worried about. Personally I would definitely not want a renter to have a VOTE on budget or bylaws. Other than that- what does it matter? Remember information tries to be free- even if you did not allow access to a website with board meeting info, etc. it doesn't guarantee others won't get it.

> Seems they haven't taken the hint nobody wants the HOA.

Not logically correct. It could also mean everything is just fine with the owners.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 10/02/2014 7:05 AM
There are a number of committees they don't have enough people on:

Building and Grounds
Safety and Security
Social and Welcoming
Budget
Bylaw review

How many units?
How many are rentals?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SamS4 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Good point. My take that nobody wants it is because out of 66 homes only 10-15 people show up at meetings (if you count actual votes that would be about 6-7 since its one vote per lot and its always the same few people) and not everybody has paid their dues (at last count only 25 a month or so ago).

There is an open web page that is public. They also produce a newsletter which is public and printed and hand delivered to residents.

I'd agree we don't need those committees. The dues are $100 a year and were supposed to take care of the common area in the front of the development and a common area that has two concrete pads which are located in what is an overflow area for the ponds that the farmers have to the back of the development.

As far as total rent/lease residents haven't a clue. I know of at least 5.
SamS4 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I'd be worried that a renter might be making recommendations that have a direct effect on me as a home owner. I'd definitely not want a non-home owner on the Budget, Bylaw, or Grounds committees. The BOD has never clearly stated what is the exact charter of these committees. If the grounds committee is only concerned with the upkeep of the common areas that probably wouldn't be a problem.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SamS4 on 10/02/2014 8:15 AM
Good point. My take that nobody wants it is because out of 66 homes only 10-15 people show up at meetings (if you count actual votes that would be about 6-7 since its one vote per lot and its always the same few people) and not everybody has paid their dues (at last count only 25 a month or so ago).

There is an open web page that is public. They also produce a newsletter which is public and printed and hand delivered to residents.

I'd agree we don't need those committees. The dues are $100 a year and were supposed to take care of the common area in the front of the development and a common area that has two concrete pads which are located in what is an overflow area for the ponds that the farmers have to the back of the development.

As far as total rent/lease residents haven't a clue. I know of at least 5.

Wow. For a $100 a year, I wouldn't care. I spend much more than that amount for unreimbursed out-of-pocket expenses.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

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