Good and bad of HOA..looking to buy

I am hoping that I could get some imput on the good and bad things of HOA's. I am looking to buy a new house and the house I love has a HOA. I live in Idaho and this is not very common thing out here yet. I am not sure that I like people telling me what I can and cannot do but I do understand that it keeps the area nice.
I have read throught the covenece and it seems pretty restrictive. Permission to build fence or any landscaping on property. No boat or RV's and so on.
It also says you cannot conduct any business on the property. I am self employed and do most of my paperwork and phone work at home. So would I not be able to do that???
Thanks!

Hello Denae - If you have any doubts whatsoever, like a marriage, you'd be better off to look some more. Here in Arizona more and more real estate ads are shouting NO HOA if the property is not located in an HOA. Makes you wonder why they are doing that...... Harold

If you already feel the covenants are restrictive and you haven't even opened the door on all the other restrictions I would guess that a HOA isn't for you.

BradP, you said , "The main benefit of the Association is keeping the property value up by requiring everyone to maintain certain standards."

That is debatible as to whether it is true or not as others have commented elsewhere in the forum.

The covenants are referred to as 'protective covenants' so as to protect property values. When I purchased my home, my realtor said, "read the covenants and if there is anything you cannot live by, then don't buy this house". I didn't see anything that I couldn't live with or by.

Regarding the verbage 'running a business out of your home'...there are a number of posts regarding this issue and language in documents. Working from home is not 'running a business'. The general consensus of 'running a business out of your home' I believe, is to keep excessive traffic and things like this out of the neighborhood as homes are residential and not commercial property. The covenants may have been written quite some time ago before people worked from home and the word tele-commuting was created.

Julie wrote "The covenants are referred to as 'protective covenants' so as to protect property values. When I purchased my home, my realtor said, "read the covenants and if there is anything you cannot live by, then don't buy this house". I didn't see anything that I couldn't live with or by."
That is precisely what I did. I studied them for a week. I can abide by and obey the rules as stated when I bought. However, be aware, your neighbors can anytime later add to or change these rules so that they could become something you cannot live with. Something to keep in mind. Always that possibility lurks in the background. Harold

Hi,

I guess I was quoted above but haven't chimed in yet, so might as well. First of all I don't see how you would be in violation already if your home business creates no disturbance or traffic problems.

Secondly as others have said you need to read the rules and if you strongly disagree with them go elsewhere. I like living in one because I am easy to please and I like the fact that I know my neighbors can't do certain things to turn this into a junk yard and hurt my property. My biggest pet pieve is how your yard looks because I have put a ton of work into mine and started from scratch when I bought.

Most of the posts here have been from detractors, however, I see a lot of benefit. That is ultimately up to you, sounds like you have reservations already, so it may be better to go somewhere else. Good luck

Mary - In VA too - real estate ads shouting NO HOA? Amazing. I have never seen a real estate ad shouting IN AN HOA - have you? You are so right. Covenants and current directors might be just fine and acceptable when you buy, which makes you feel that you can live with them, but everyone knows how quickly that can change. I think that aspect is never brought out when promoting HOAs.
Harold

Denae:
You have received many good insights here, for and against HOA community living. But, I want to offer another twist to the story.
After some years in an HOA, surviving Board recalls, the mindset going from Board authority with a heavy hand, to more lenient, it seems to me that to live in a community successfully requires you to be a certain type individual with certain personality traits--who you are at your core.

It is not for one who likes to exert control of their surroundings, likes their grass, landscaping, snow removal, flower beds to meet certain standards--you may not like how its done, when its done, or even if its done.
It is not for one who does not enjoy close proximity living conditions-- there are some who thrive on knowing everyone else's comings and goings.
It is not for one who wants to be 'individual' in their aesthetic-surroundings--all is done according to the 'book'.
It is not for one who does not enjoy others making decisions on your behalf.

If you would not adapt well to any of the above, I would suggest you seek housing elsewhere. But, if you are willing to go with the flow, extend yourself to others, take initiative and responsibility in serving, it may be just right for you. Good Luck in your decision whatever it may be!

Hi Denae:

I've managed a portfolio of HOA's for three years in a management company and I'm currently the "compliance Coordinator" for a master-planned community HOA.

If you're thinking of buying into a "cookie cutter" community, there won't be much that you can do to your yard, etc. - the goal of their architectural review committees tends to be, "keep everything looking the same as everyone else."

If you're in a master-planned community where a diversity of housing styles is encouraged, then you have a lot of lattitude in your landscaping (I assume that the house is already built, from your post).

You might read further into your covenants with regard to the restriction on home businesses... a lot of covenants allow the Board to approve a business if it won't have any substantial impact on the community. If yours says that, then by all means, get permission before you buy from the current board, in writing, so that in case you get a crazy board later, you've got proof that your business is allowed.

The only businesses that I've had to go after in 5 years, were two - one was a lady setting up a hair salon in her garage, and the other was a family running a car repair business out of their garage (with daily delivery trucks, etc. as well as numerous cars parked in driveway, tools & shop in driveway.

I would encourage you, if the HOA has a management company, to talk to the HOA manager and see what kind of person he or she is, how reasonable things tend to be.

Also, be aware that there are times when a developer starts the HOA with an unreasonably low budget, to keep the HOA fees low at the startup. This doesn't always happen, but I've seen it happen before and it's a real struggle later on when the fees need to be raised, because some people will buy because of low HOA fees (usually the people who scream the loudest are on the edge financially in the first place).

Best of luck!

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

The individual owner keeps the property value up....the association can also bring the home values down...The subdivision I live in has a hard time selling homes because of the association, beautiful area but its like being in prison, I should have stay'd renting it didn't have as many rules.

associations look for only their bottom dollar...homeowners have no voices.

Those are not the people that scream the loadest that is the problem with associations, people like you.
There are things that happen in peoples lives that they have no control over,
you are so quicked to punish the homeowners that have bought their house and got to where they are at, at that time in their life to have associations take it away.

Brad,

I just bought my first house and I read through their manuals rules regulations
but after I moved in rules changed and manuals/rules were not updated in the books.
I worked hard for what I have on a single income knowing the association can put leins and fees on your house and could possibly bring what you worked hard for into foreclosure.
I appreciate your concern and yes I shouldn't say its all HOA but they should not be above the law.
I live in a gated community and if you are late on your association dues they won't allow you into the gate, that is my house.

they are able to get away with to much. someone needs to put a stop to it.
I suppose your have two incomes so being late isn't something you need to worry about, I didn't have to worry either, until I was laid off 6 months ago.
and managed to keep up with my bills. Associations don't care.

thanks for the venting.

You have summed it up to a T

thank you!

Don't think I haven't tried, they hold their meetings when people are at work and they also say its open door but you can't say anything in response to their meeting until they schedule the next, then its during the day.

alot of people moved because of this association.

someone was elected in and was going to make changes for the people and actually had death threats.

can they put a lein on your house if its in a trust?

I know their is a type of trust that saves your house from judgements, such as bill collection and or medical?

I'm sorry if I came across as harsh, what makes me mad is what I think are my rights don't apply, I want to know what my rights are against what they do.

kim

How do you go about voting the board out.

Kimberly,
PS - Don't leave it up to someone else to do it for you. It isn't that difficult. Go talk to your neighbors and ask them what they want. Join the board and do something for your neighbors. If you are honest and truly devoted to the majority, you WILL be elected. Then you start getting others like you involved.

I would research it a bit more. If possible I would discuss it with the current board explain the situation and see if they have a problem with it. If they say they don't get it in writing. As bods often change and what one bod sees no problem with the next may. I own in an HOA (vacation spot) and I will tell you that things that were told to me prior to buying did not ring true after the ink was dry. In short I wish I never bought in, the place is crazy at best. On the flip side I work for a very lovely HOA. High end units, kept in amazing condition, run very well, and it always amazes me how well the residents interact with one another. There are limited conflicts as they seem to really take everyone into consideration when dealing with any issues. They are truely what a HOA was designed to be. With that being said I don't think that this is the norm. So for sanity sake alone, do your homework. Whatever that takes.

Brad,

I so desperately need to intervine on Kim's behalf. A lot of what she says is true. The association that I own in, is brutal and yes I read my doc's before I bought, and as I agree with the rules and the way the doc's are written it was not an issue for me. What became an issue was after I moved in and noticed that the bod that we have, does what I will refer to as selective enforcement of the rules. Understand completely that I have never been out of compliance with the rules, however I know people who have had differences with the bod and have immediately the next day had the bod at their site issuing fines for steep amounts (2-3K) for very minor infractions. I mean truely minor, I do not want to go into specifics but trust me it could not be taken any other way but as vengeful. And yes these people do need to come into compliance but to do so in such a way as to create annimosity is just not needed. Not to mention that they do not enforce MAJOR infractions done by their friends and I mean serious issues that will get us in some hot water.

In the most recent incident it should be extremely interesting to see how this plays out as the person they have selected to bully is not one to take this lightly. He had sued on principal alone in the past and after spending over 50k in litigation costs, won. Some people due sue for principal alone.

Now, onto collections. I was the treasurer so I can speak to this. This is another area that is interesting as the selective enforcement also applies here. Upon taking over as treasurer I noticed, not a lot but a few people that were behind a couple of years(they like this person), some 120 days, some 90, but I would say about 90-95% paid on time. In a seperate incident another individual that the bod does not like became late on fees due to illness in the family. The payment were made just not timely. This was seen as an oppurtunity. The collection notices started, they did go so far as threaten to lock this family out of the gated community. The bod posted that they intended to do so on the website. They also threatened to make their financial records viewable on the website as well. I sent them notice requesting that the seek another avenue as this is unlawful and covered under the privacy act in our state. Currently the real esate market is slow and it is always best to work out a payment schedule as foreclosure should always be a last resort. I also don't know what legal recourse this person would have as the other owner is still a few years behind on his unit and no legal action has been taken upon him whatsoever. Remember we like John Doe so it doesn't matter that he is three YEARS out on payments now. Starting to see why I am no longer the treasurer? :-)

Now please know Kevin, that I do work for a HOA that is the complete opposite from where I own. The people could not be nicer. They all pay on time. They adhere to the docs, etc. I think the difference between the two is that the bod where I work treats everyone, regardless of personality with respect, they believe in dealing fair, proffesionalsim, and working with not against the community. Because of this positive attitude there is a lot more harmony in this community. It shows as this is one of the nicest areas around and it is a pleasure to work with this board.

JohnS7:
I, too, have seen mis-use of covenant dictates and rules in order for board members to achieve their own agenda. This is what is giving HOAs a bad reputation. As resident/s, if we see misuse of the covenant, yes, we can vote board members out, get on the board ourselves, volunteer, etc., etc., etc. But, we're not solving the pervading problems that exist. Just read the posts here. Over and over again we read of board members on an ego trip wanting to prove their power and authority. Wrong, wrong, wrong!!!

The issue is, as John has stated, we need an advocate at county or state level to intercede. I'm not sure how this would work but we have no one represented on our behalf. Especially in view of the fact that people are living longer, they are wanting to 'retire' while in good health to 'community living' with like minded neighbors and their outside maintenance taken care of.

Maybe its just a matter of board members names being registered and MADE to attend a course on 'Serving as a Community Board Member'... or some such course. Yes, there are courses available which members can attend for a fee, but how many do you know who actually attend? Why do they think they don't need it? Therein, lies the problem.

We need to band together to seek authority over dictator-boards and mis-use of HOA government. If not, HOAs will fall by the wayside with empty units unable to sell, bringing no tax dollars into the municipality, and eventually turned into low-income rental properties. Not a pretty picture.

Sorry I was on my soap box, but I agree with John.

My understanding of what he meant when he said "We don't need wannabe cops breathing down our necks. We are Americans and we cherish our freedoms. We need Federal definition to control HOA's," is that, since there are so many millions of people living in hoas, helpless under the incredible power of a few people on a board, that the federal gov should regulate the presently unregulated boards of directors. We all know there is little if any disclosure as to exactly what living in an hoa means, the abilities of the board members, the protections they enjoy, the extremely limited recourse a homeowner has if fined for an infraction, real or percieved.
I don't think he's asking for more federal laws, just that h/we have the same rights and protections under existing local, state and federal that people not in hoas have. Enacting AARP's "Bill of Rights for Homeowners" would be a good start to responding to his plea for help.