💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

MaryM1 (Delaware)
Posts: 9
Posted:
We are a small HOA of 57 homes.

I am trying to gather a defenition of grandfather clauses with declarants. Here is the reason:

We have been a HOA for 2 years now. Our declarants are vague, however
one declarant that has been an original one past down from the developer/bilder/ is that 'BOATS/TRAILERS/MOTOR HOMES, MAY BE PERMITTED ONLY ON THE BACK 30' OF YOUR PROPERTY.'.

Now the BOD along w/ the declarant committee would like to abolish this declarant, and force the owners of said items to either store them or put in the garage. I am curious if they have the power to do it, or is this grandfathered. My reason is this: We all knew 57 honmes upon buying in this development that you were PERMITTED these items. Just suppose Mr and Mrs smith were debating about 2 homes. One development said NO boats, etc...Ours said Yes, but in the rear of property. Our development was more expensive, however Mr and Mrs smith bought here, for that sole purpose!!! Now 1 year later, they may be forced to store these items, at their expense. What if they do not have the funds for it? Do they have to sell them, or worse yet move? The BOD would like to take this to a vote and if accepted by 51% it is approved.

Is this protected by a grandfather clause? Now before you answer.....

We also had another situation w/ fences. Our original restrictions stated "fences are permitted with the advance written approval of the Declarant" The developer/builder/real estate gave different homeowners different approvals. One he said, ONLY white vinyl is to be used in this development, Then another wooden split rail is to be used, , another wooden shadow box. The only conformity he used was only in the 2nd half of the home and back yard. Not front yard. So now we have a hodgepodge of fences. We wanted to create a standard of design for the types of fences, however after we created it and submitted to an attorney, he said 'Since other homes in the development already have and were approved different types of fences, you the BOD/architech committee and such are legally not allowed to put restrictions upon new fences being errected". They are grandfathered. And to make it worse, is that if mr. x puts up a wood fence, and your standards are now white vinyl, and you send him a non compliance letter, he may sue you and will win, as there is already another wood fence in neighborhood.

Help me please with this.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Mary:

To the boat issue, yes you can amend your delarations, but the BOD can not do this by themselves. The answer to that lies in your declarations, it should have a statement or statements that tell you how to amend them. Ours require a special meeting to be called for that purpose and approval of 2/3 of the members in attendance for the change to be passed. Some require more and some require a quorum of homeowners, but it is a homeowner vote. I would say if you got it changed that grandfathering would not apply in this case.

For the fences, your attorney is right. You can change your declarations to a specific type of fence, but the fences already installed would be grandfathered in.

The difference between the two is it does not cost you anything to move your boat to your garage. However, it will cost you a lot of money to rip out a fence and install a new one. Plus if they have an approved architectural request for the fence you can never touch them on it.
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
What do your governing documents say? What State?

Note: Declarants are typically the builders/developers of the Association and Declarations are typically the main piece of your governing documents. I think you have them confused.
MaryM1 (Delaware)
Posts: 9
Posted:
brad,
I have Declaration of restrictions is what they are called. These were the original documents I received or we all received upon signing the contract. We are in Delaware.
MaryM1 (Delaware)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Brad,
thank you for your response, however I am a bit confused. First and foremost, I personally do not own a boat/trailer/camper, and I am on the BOD.
I was aware that the BOD is NOT permitted to change or ammend the Restrictions and our declaration of restrictions state that we have to have 51% vote to do this. What I am confused about is HOW can you buy an expensive home, these homes are 400,000+ and have permission originally and all homeowners know about this going into this development, and then 1 year later if 29 of our 57 homeowners say yes to this ammendment, then sorry you loose you have to move and pay for your items to be stored? I would fight and say, I wouldn't of moved in here if I wasn't able to have these items. That is what I am asking about grandfathering. Shouldn't this also be grandfathered?

Now onto the fences. I see what you said about the fences already excisitng being grandfathered, however, I must not of made myself clear. The atty told us point blank, that we can NEVER ammend or penalitize a homeowner, either excisting, or newly errected if it is of the material that is already in this neighborhood. We do NOT have chain link fences of any type, so if that is being errected, we do have permission to act on that, but he said, it's almost a moot point, want a fence do what you want,and the BOD cannot do a thing to you.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Mary:

I may be wrong on the boats, but that is how HOA's operate, the people can change the rules so to speak and if it is done correctly then all have to follow it. I can understand the frustration and my response to it is if some people are very much against the change then they need to get out and politic and make their feelings known. I guess your BOD could grandfather in those who have boats, but then it is a moot point to change the rules and would make enforcing it very hard.

Your lawyer is right, I guess I didn't read it all the way. But if there are certain types of fences already existing in the neighborhood and someone else wants one it makes it hard to say no. What would your reasons be? Yes you changed the rules, but is it a reasonable change to allow person A to have it, then change the rule and now person B can't have it. You can definitely try it, however, I would follow your attorney's advice as I don't think you would win if it ever got to court.
JM2 (Oregon)
Posts: 439
Posted:
Hi Mary:

I guess I would have one question: why would people buy in a commmunity that allows the Boats/Trailers/Motor homes and then want to restrict them suddenly?

One thing that might be able to be done: to require screening...the HOA could ammend to require that they be screened by a high fence so as not to be visible from other lots, or require an outbuilding or separate garage for storage. That would need to be checked out per your city/county code, to see what the setbacks are on the lot (probably not within 10 feet of back or side property lines) as well as how high a fence could be allowed (although the city/county may allow owners to apply for a variance). That could be a way to walk a "middle ground" between the rights of the boat/trailer/rv owners and those who suddenly don't want to see them.

It would not seem fair to outlaw them, when both boat/trailer/rv owners and non-owners bought with the understanding that these were allowed. Not everything that is legal, is fair.

JPM
HaroldS1 (Arizona)
Posts: 314
Posted:
Mary said: "What I am confused about is HOW can you buy an expensive home, these homes are 400,000+ and have permission originally and all homeowners know about this going into this development, and then 1 year later if 29 of our 57 homeowners say yes to this ammendment, then sorry you loose you have to move and pay for your items to be stored? I would fight and say, I wouldn't of moved in here if I wasn't able to have these items. That is what I am asking about grandfathering. Shouldn't this also be grandfathered?"

That is one well kept secret hazard of buying into an HOA. You might agree completely and believe you can abide by the rules existing when you buy, but be aware your neighbors with enough votes down the road can remove or add restrictions that can definitely affect you. Something I don't think many people even think about when buying into an HOA.
In your case, 51% is small to change covenants. I would assume those with boats would vote against it, but are there enough? If not, the boats will have to go, and then will it have an impact on property values as boat owners begin to dump - excuse me - list - their property as boat free? Harold
TomK2 (Ohio)
Posts: 39
Posted:
Mary1 My advise if I were you would be this. The BOD must have had complaints about the Boats to be start with (in writing and not verble) so the BOD should "pole" all your owners as too how they feel about the Boat situation and if you find you have enough owners against the boats then I would send out a amendment to your docs asking them to vote on the change. Remember your docs are not cast in stone and if the majority want change, make it happen. All owners have a vested interest association and all should have a say. Majority rules like it or not. Good luck.
MaryN (Virginia)
Posts: 125
Posted:
Our issue is horses. We have always been permitted one horse per lot. Currently no one owns a horse, but we had always considered getting 2 as we own 2 adjoining lots. In an effort to change many things in the covenants there was a no horse allowed clause sliped in amongst a long list of items. It passed and was filed at the courthouse. The board did many things illegally and we have retained an attorney who has told us the changes are no good, and to go ahead and get our horses. He told us that when a person buys property with an intent to use it for something(and we always wanted to have horses)the HOA can't vote away that right. In VA the state tries to protect property owners against such action. We are getting ready to put up a barn and have already picked out our miniature horses. Will keep you posted.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here