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RobertW25 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Our condo developer has kept the community at arms length for the 6 years of construction. Now that we are within a few weeks of reaching the 80% of owners required by the Declaration of Condominium and the Georgia State Law at which time they have to initiate the election of an owner Board of Directors they are starting to cooperate. But when we express concern about the timing, and ask for a specific plan and a date for the election meeting they say not to worry, they will get back to us in due course and that anyway turnover will be delayed until "we are ready". I have read all the governing documents and the Georgia Condominium Law document but can see no mention of any right of a developer(the declarant)to delay turnover on this basis. In fact, as I read the documents they have to immediately turnover control at the 80% time. Am I missing something?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We all believed our docs called for the Declarant to turn over (113 standalone patio homes) at 90% (102). The Declarant once told me he thought this was the way it was also.

I have a good relationship with our Declarant and he told me he was a bit nervous saying he did not trust some of the owners (we all know who he is referring to) and believed they might try and make thinks hard on him once they had control of the BOD. He felt they could screw up the remaining sales. He said his lawyer claimed the docs were written as such that 90% was the earliest time of turnover, not the latest. Overall I did not disagree/argue with the Declarant. When asked, I said the inmates will soon enough run the asylum.

Well 110 are built and owner occupied. 2 are under contract and being built. The last home will be built on spec. The difference in the 90% and when he plans on doing the turnover (end of the year) would have been about one year so not a big deal to me.

The usual biatchers are biatching.......LOL

One note. I was once told the 90% (or whatever) meant sold and closed. Maybe this is why the OP's Declarant is not specifying an exact date.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Very informative John.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posted:
Very interesting stuff...have wondered about this in the past. And am looking forward to hearing what others say about this too.

oljim, in texas

Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
RobertW25 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The 80% are all closed units. I even checked the County Public Records and all have warranty deeds on file. The question still remains - does the declarant have the discretion to delay turnover based on Owners "not being ready' after the conditions for turnover (80% closed) have been met. Anyone have any experience of this?
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/07/2014 2:25 PM
The 80% are all closed units. I even checked the County Public Records and all have warranty deeds on file. The question still remains - does the declarant have the discretion to delay turnover based on Owners "not being ready' after the conditions for turnover (80% closed) have been met. Anyone have any experience of this?

Can you supply the exact language from your CC&Rs and the exact language from your Statute?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/07/2014 3:37 PM
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/07/2014 2:25 PM
The 80% are all closed units. I even checked the County Public Records and all have warranty deeds on file. The question still remains - does the declarant have the discretion to delay turnover based on Owners "not being ready' after the conditions for turnover (80% closed) have been met. Anyone have any experience of this?


Can you supply the exact language from your CC&Rs and the exact language from your Statute?

I did look at ours Covenants:

Upon any of the following happening:

1. Yaba..Within twelve months after..Yaba..85.6% of homes..Yaba..conveyed to owners.

2. 12/01/2018.

SC does have statues on Condos (multi unit, multi floor buildings) but nothing on any other style such as side by side units (townhomes, duplexes, etc.) nor on standalone homes. I am not sure about Condos in SC Statues as ours are not controlled by those statues so they do not interest me.

I am lead to believe some states do have turnover statues and I was once told it can be as low as 50%.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/07/2014 2:25 PM
The 80% are all closed units. I even checked the County Public Records and all have warranty deeds on file. The question still remains - does the declarant have the discretion to delay turnover based on Owners "not being ready' after the conditions for turnover (80% closed) have been met. Anyone have any experience of this?

From a practical standpoint the developer can get away with a lot as long as they have control. Whether it's legal or not is another matter. As long as the developer is in control, they have the votes to change the declaration if they want to. Assuming the declaration isn't changed, you would have to sue to get the court to enforce the contract. If state law requires turnover at 80%, there may or may not be a government agency that enforces the law. Maybe some GA member can weigh in.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/07/2014 5:53 PM
As long as the developer is in control, they have the votes to change the declaration if they want to.

Is this accurate? I have no experience with it, but I am surprised that people buy into a place with deed restrictions that can be changed after the buy-in at the whim of the developer. Aren't there some limits?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/07/2014 8:10 PM
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/07/2014 5:53 PM
As long as the developer is in control, they have the votes to change the declaration if they want to.


Is this accurate? I have no experience with it, but I am surprised that people buy into a place with deed restrictions that can be changed after the buy-in at the whim of the developer. Aren't there some limits?

NP, not an attorney but I believe there are a few states that have limited the Declarant's power to change the Covenants and if there are Government backed mortgages in the development particularly VA mortgages, it is difficult. Other than that it's the Declarant's ball and game and pretty much subject to their whims, unless you are willing to spend the time and money to take them to court.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Robert as others have said, if it is a state law (I couldn't find it) that transition must occur at 80%, then you and your neighbors may need to take him to court to force the issue or better yet, start complaining to your local and state representatives. The expression: "A squeaky wheel gets the grease." Is especially valid in an election year.

In the mean time, you might want to pay a visit to the local Zoning Board and see just what is required in the papers the Declarant filed to get approval. Additionally the Declarant almost always has to post compliance bonds with the city / county to insure completion of the project and are released as certain portions of the project are completed. You may be able to block release of some of the bonds until transition.

You should also use the search function here to check out "transition to homeowner control" there have been many very informative posts on the subject over the years including valuable checklists. You also need to pay attention to the date on your warranty deed, you have a limited time to bring problems covered under the warranty to light.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RobertW25 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for all the replies:
1)Our Declaration of Condominium, and the Georgia Condominium Statute, both list 3 cases, earliest applies, and the 80% which we will reach end September, is the earliest unless the declarant voluntarily releases control prior to end of September-(the other one is 7 yrs after recording of declaration, which will be June 2015)

2) There have been no changes to Declaration, and can not be with owners voting for such.

Looks like the majority of opinion is that we will have to take it to court, and there is a provision for that in the governing documents if the declarant does not follow the rules. I just wanted to see if I had missed anything in my interpretation of all the relevant docs. Thanks for the replies.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Robert

Hope all goes well for you but if the turnover deadline is on or before 06/2015 (9 months away) why the urgency to take legal action now?

You say your declaration cannot be changed without owner approval even while under Declarant control. Most declarations/covenants are written such that the ultimate power while under Declarant control, is always the Declarant. Often this control is "hidden" under Class A and Class B voters. Our docs say owners are Class A voters with one vote per owner with the Declarant being Class B voter with 10 votes per unsold lot.

With 113 units in our HOA the above would give the Declarant over 50% or more voting control down to the last 6 units (60 to 53). This also assume all owners vote and few have ever seen all owners vote on anything.

Hope his helps.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 09/08/2014 7:11 AM
Robert

Hope all goes well for you but if the turnover deadline is on or before 06/2015 (9 months away) why the urgency to take legal action now?

Just to add to this, any legal action could easily take longer than 9 months.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Why wait for the declarant to turn it over to you? When the turnover criteria are met (end of Sept), then follow the procedures in your documents for an owner or group of owners to call a meeting to elect a new board. You seem to be knowledgeable of the law and your documents, and you should also get an attorney so the declarant cooperates and doesn't try to challenge it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm with Jeff. Follow your docs & state law to proceed properly to elect a board of homeowners.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffT2 on 09/08/2014 8:55 AM
Why wait for the declarant to turn it over to you? When the turnover criteria are met (end of Sept), then follow the procedures in your documents for an owner or group of owners to call a meeting to elect a new board. You seem to be knowledgeable of the law and your documents, and you should also get an attorney so the declarant cooperates and doesn't try to challenge it.

If a notice from an attorney is enough to get the developer to cooperate, that would be great. If not, not having the records and control of the association funds is going to make things difficult. Homeowners are also not going to be happy getting dues bills from both the elected HOA and the developer with both claiming the power to lien if not paid.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RobertW25 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Our governing docs say declarant has to call meeting to elect new board, if not go to court. But till board elected would need declarant (as legal HOA) to approve funds to pay attorney. Working on this
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/08/2014 10:30 AM
Our governing docs say declarant has to call meeting to elect new board, if not go to court. But till board elected would need declarant (as legal HOA) to approve funds to pay attorney. Working on this

Unfortunately, it would most likely require a group of homeowners to put up the money to talk to an attorney. If a couple of talks and stern letters from the atty are enough to get the developer to turn over, that shouldn't be too expensive. If it goes to the lawsuit stage, then it will be.

Once the association is turned over, the board probably could, but would not be obligated to, reimburse the atty fees.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Here is how I understand it, based on reading Georgia's Condominium Act § 44-3-101. The right to control the association automatically and immediately passes to the unit owners when 4/5 of the units are sold. This does not mean that you have control, only that you have the right to control. The declarant and his/her cronies will still be directors and officers, so they will still be in control as the board, but the declarant loses his/her power as declarant. IMO, the period of declarant control is over at this time, meaning that none of the declarant stuff in your documents applies (including the declarant being the one to call a meeting).

So, I still think that the owners can call a meeting after 80% of your units are sold. Recall the board, have new elections, etc.

On the other hand, I don't have access to your documents, but I think the law controls in this case, not the documents. There are several conditions in the law. Good to check with an attorney in Georgia.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 09/08/2014 10:12 AM
Posted By JeffT2 on 09/08/2014 8:55 AM
Why wait for the declarant to turn it over to you? When the turnover criteria are met (end of Sept), then follow the procedures in your documents for an owner or group of owners to call a meeting to elect a new board. You seem to be knowledgeable of the law and your documents, and you should also get an attorney so the declarant cooperates and doesn't try to challenge it.


If a notice from an attorney is enough to get the developer to cooperate, that would be great. If not, not having the records and control of the association funds is going to make things difficult. Homeowners are also not going to be happy getting dues bills from both the elected HOA and the developer with both claiming the power to lien if not paid.

Good point. The morning after the meeting, the new President and Treasurer should take the meeting minutes and other documents to the bank where the association has its current bank account, and change the signatures. Inform all the owners to mail their checks to the new treasurer.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Robert

My question was:

Hope all goes well for you but if the turnover deadline is on or before 06/2015 (9 months away) why the urgency to take legal action now?

Please answer.

Thanks.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
JohnC, I'd be worried about possible construction defects, especially in a condominium, and that the statute of limitations could run out.

I think, as suggested, the owners should elect a board, keeping the declarant informed every step of the way, and request the turnover materials & records. There's a lot that can be tried before a lawsuit, but may require an attorney's advice
RobertW25 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Unfortunately the owners cannot elect a board. that is what this question is all about. The Declarant has to take the first step by calling an election meeting for the election of the new owners board. If they do not, it looks like we have then to take it to the county judge who would order it to happen if their reason is not acceptable to him/her. If they then fail they will be in contempt of court, and subject to the judge's penalty. Back to the question - does anybody know of a case where an acceptable reason was "owners not ready"?
RobertW25 (Georgia)
Posts: 6
Posted:
The turnover deadline is not going to be 6/15 as that is the latest date. The earliest applies, therefore the two choices are (1) any day the declarant want to relinquish control, or (2)when 80% units are closed (which will be 9/30/14 in our case. However the declarant is not giving a specific date but just saying "some time later this year" but not before "the owners are ready"??? Am I correct in saying that he has no option but to relinquish control on 9/30/14 at the latest as I understand the governing docs to say.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/09/2014 10:13 AM
Unfortunately the owners cannot elect a board. that is what this question is all about. The Declarant has to take the first step by calling an election meeting for the election of the new owners board. If they do not, it looks like we have then to take it to the county judge who would order it to happen if their reason is not acceptable to him/her. If they then fail they will be in contempt of court, and subject to the judge's penalty. Back to the question - does anybody know of a case where an acceptable reason was "owners not ready"?

No, but if it does go to court, i bet he'll have a better answer by then.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/09/2014 10:13 AM
Unfortunately the owners cannot elect a board. that is what this question is all about. The Declarant has to take the first step by calling an election meeting for the election of the new owners board. If they do not, it looks like we have then to take it to the county judge who would order it to happen if their reason is not acceptable to him/her. If they then fail they will be in contempt of court, and subject to the judge's penalty. Back to the question - does anybody know of a case where an acceptable reason was "owners not ready"?

Another option is to follow the procedures in your documents to recall all of the directors, which probably does not require a meeting.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RobertW25 on 09/09/2014 10:22 AM
The turnover deadline is not going to be 6/15 as that is the latest date. The earliest applies, therefore the two choices are (1) any day the declarant want to relinquish control, or (2)when 80% units are closed (which will be 9/30/14 in our case. However the declarant is not giving a specific date but just saying "some time later this year" but not before "the owners are ready"??? Am I correct in saying that he has no option but to relinquish control on 9/30/14 at the latest as I understand the governing docs to say.

It depends on what you mean by relinquish. The law, section § 44-3-101-(a) clearly states that the declarant loses the ability to appoint/remove board members. This doesn't affect the current board, which remains in place controlling the association.

Then in section § 44-3-101-b, it goes on to state:
"(b) Upon the expiration of the period of the declarant's right to control the association pursuant to subsection (a) of this Code section, the right to control shall automatically pass to the unit owners, including the declarant if the declarant then owns one or more condominium units."

Again, this gives you the right to control, but it is up to the owners to make sure the current board calls a new meeting to elect directors. A separate procedure, without the need to call a meeting, is for the owners to recall all the directors by following your docs and state law. It would be great if the law said the declarant must call a meeting within say 30 days, but it doesn't specifically say that. There is probably a court case or legal opinion on the topic. You can try showing the law to the declarant.

These are specific legal questions, so you need to ask a lawyer, or get the declarant to ask a lawyer. A lawyer can write a strong letter for you to the declarant, which should not cost too much money.

The declarant retains some rights after the period of declarant control, such as the right to access the unfinished units for construction, post signs, and other rights contained in your governing documents. I doubt the declarant retains any right to be the only one to call meetings. The language in the law quoted above passes this kind of control to the owners.

Can you quote the wording from your docs that says that only the declarant can call a meeting? This right goes on forever? Under what circumstances? The owners can never call a meeting?

Perhaps the best advice is for you to search for and read up on declarant transition and try to work with the declarant before and during the transition, which will make it smoothest for everyone including the declarant. Ask to see the financials now, which you have a right to see anyway. If the declarant refuses, then quote the law, let the delcarant know you intend to pursue it, recall the board, and get a lawyer.
JamesO6 (Florida)
Posts: 170
Posted:
My state they sure can, Developer can do anything as long as he still has 1 lot open can amend deed restrictions rewrite voting rights whatever, can even not turnover/legally enact it to the HOA even and bail out of the development and leave the rest of the sections to be built by another developer and they have to create a new HOA and well like our mess. we got lucky and not in one due to the developer only bought our section lands, the new developer bought more land around it and kept the community name. seems if it was all bought by the original developer only then does a new developer assumes all previous lots builds into their HOA. And it gets worse, like one development only section 1 can not have fencing till the development is completed due to eyesore of potential buyers. hades a developer can create a mess with different deed restrictions in a development according to each section built.

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