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MarieL (Illinois)
Posts: 82
Posted:
There are many common property trees in my Illinois Common Interest Community. These Honey Locutrees, constantly shed. Some have large branches hanging the roofs of the 2 story townhouses ,shed leaves all summer long and then completely in Fall The leavclutter the flat roofs and clog the roof drains, in each row of the townhouses The roofs flood causing them to be damaged,as well as interior leak damages. Because these trees are common property who is responsible to prevent and/or repair the roofs damaged by flooding and damaging the interiors of the units.

Some HO's are requesting the common trees too close to their units be removed.The BOD"s does not pay any attention to these HO's and completely ignores this problem.

What action can those HO's take to secure the integrity of their roofs ?

Thank you. Any responses will be apprreciated.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
I can't speak for Illinois statutes or your local ordinances. I will offer this scenario though.

We have a similar situation with trees that cause uprooting and damage. Our covenants specifically cover trees in right of ways in front of homes. Our homeowners are responsible, per our covenants, for the maintenance of these trees. A few short years ago, our harebrained Board President and his buddy (who is now on the Board) had the bright idea to try and get control over the removal of these trees and their removal from the county and homeowners. We had a reasonable Board member who thought it might be best to get an attorney's opinion about this plan since there was language in our documents about WHO was responsible for the tree maintenance.

The attorney advised that should the Association obtain such control (removal and then replacement with a tree of the HOA's choosing), then the Association would be responsible for any damages that occurred not only in the process of tree removal, tree replacement, and ALSO if the replacement tree caused damage in the future. It was only with great reluctance that this wonderful harebrained idea was dropped.

Check your documents.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Don't ignore the requests. Negligence is a claim you want to avoid if something happens that results in a personal injury.

Hire an Arborist. Have the Arborist prepare a report for the long term maintenance/removal of all trees.

Decide how to finance the Arborist's plan, and how to allocate the cost between HO and HOA. (In my HOA, we pay for pruning, we pay half the cost of tree removal, and we pay nothing toward tree replacement. Took us about 18 months to figure it all out and put these standards in place.)

In terms of liability, if the trees were there when the houses were purchased, then the buyers had ample opportunity to observe and assess for themselves what the effect on their houses could be. On the other hand, if the HOA created an expectation regarding pruning practices and those practices are no longer being followed, then the owner could have a claim against the HOA.

I cannot think of any action the board could take to secure the integrity of the roofs other than via your pruning/removal policies and practices.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
MarieL (Illinois)
Posts: 82
Posted:
Per the CC&R's our HOA is responsible for common property trees and landscaping of all commom properties However,over 37 years ago the HOA assumed responsibility to maintain the lawns and trees on HO's private property. The association also paid to have the roofs cleaned in Fall and in Spring.Two years ago the BOD's stopped the Spring roof cleaning. As a result the once a year cleaning does't accomplish much. There are too many dead leaves on the roof to be properly cleaned in the time they are hired to do.. The roofs flood, the drains get clogged and the rotting leaves are damaging the roofs, causing interior leaks.The HO's who want common trees too close to their townhouses, believe the board is being negligent in ignoring this issue. Under the circumstances Is this BOD's negligence ? And can there be any law suits filed against the board, due to any of this??
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Marie

Yes you can sue the HOA.

That said, is it the wisest solution? I doubt it is. It would be easier to mount a recall/replacement of the BOD. Replace them with like minded thinkers.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarieL on 09/06/2014 12:34 PM
Per the CC&R's our HOA is responsible for common property trees and landscaping of all commom properties However,over 37 years ago the HOA assumed responsibility to maintain the lawns and trees on HO's private property. The association also paid to have the roofs cleaned in Fall and in Spring.Two years ago the BOD's stopped the Spring roof cleaning. As a result the once a year cleaning does't accomplish much. There are too many dead leaves on the roof to be properly cleaned in the time they are hired to do.. The roofs flood, the drains get clogged and the rotting leaves are damaging the roofs, causing interior leaks.The HO's who want common trees too close to their townhouses, believe the board is being negligent in ignoring this issue. Under the circumstances Is this BOD's negligence ? And can there be any law suits filed against the board, due to any of this??

If there is nothing in the Declaration that requires the HOA to provide these later added services (tree maintenance on private property and roof cleaning), then the HOA can shift the obligation back to the homeowners without risk of liability. There is no negligence involved in doing this.

I would not want to speculate on whether there is negligence regarding the trees on common ground. If you were going to file a lawsuit, you would need an expert's opinion - a professional who looked at your specific trees in your specific setting and reached an opinion that the Board was negligent. I doubt that you will find a tree professional who will write such a report. Also, the HOA would of course have their own expert saying there was no negligence.

As to whether you can sue - Sure, you can sue for just about anything.


Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarieL on 09/06/2014 8:28 AM

What action can those HO's take to secure the integrity of their roofs ?

They can trim any limb that is over their property line providing it doesn't kill the tree. (normally allowed by law but check to be sure).

They can purchase leaf guards for the gutters.

They can take attend meetings and ask at the meeting (sometimes it's harder to say no in person than via letter).

They can gather support and replace the Board with those who will listen.

They can ask permission to trim specific trees at the homeowners expense. (I've done this to two trees in my area).

They can learn about the financial status of the Association and see if the finances are truly available to do the work they requested (for example, we have many mature trees and typically spend $10,000 per year on pruning/removals, but could easily spend $15K to $20K per year).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
One thing we did was have an arborist come in and evaluate all of our common area trees. The work that was identified was categorized into priority 1 (diseased or threatening life/property) priority 2 (clearance from roofs) and priority 3 (general pruning). With this report, the Association finally had a plan of action they could follow.

The work identified, at that time, would have cost $50,000. Since that money wasn't available, the Board chose to tackle it over 5 years and increased the tree budget to make that happen. Unfortunately, delays don't account for new problems (and there are plenty).

The problem was, the Board simply wasn't aware of the real issues. The arborist report made them aware.

We didn't have to pay for the arborist as one company was willing to do that work for free providing they were included in the bids. I've heard of other Associations pay for an arborist, tagged/numbered the trees, placed them on a map and evaluated each tree. I don't know what that cost but I would be interested in that happening in our development. Perhaps, after we finish with the first report.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/06/2014 2:20 PM
We didn't have to pay for the arborist as one company was willing to do that work for free providing they were included in the bids. I've heard of other Associations pay for an arborist, tagged/numbered the trees, placed them on a map and evaluated each tree. I don't know what that cost but I would be interested in that happening in our development. Perhaps, after we finish with the first report.

Arborist tagged our 500+ trees and provided a report for less than $2,000. Well worth the investment because, like in Tim's case, we were able to develop a six year plan, which we were able to complete in four because everyone got on board.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
http://www2.mnbar.org/benchandbar/2002/mar02/tree.htm

Negligence: Hazard Trees and Limbs
The trend across the country is to hold tree owners legally responsible for damage caused by unsound or "hazard trees."11 A hazard tree is a tree with a defect plus a target, such as a sidewalk, a car, or a house in the path of an unstable or decaying tree.

Minnesota cases involving negligence in tree law tend to fall into two categories: damage caused by trees or damage done to trees. Foreseeability is the common thread that runs through both types of claims. In both instances, courts will look at what should have been obvious to the tree owner about the tree's condition.
Damage Your Client's Tree Causes. If a neighbor's tree is unsound and threatens your client's property, the neighbor may be liable for any damage that occurs. The test is whether the tree owner knew or should have known that damage was likely. A tree owner is not expected to be a tree expert, but she is expected to recognize obvious symptoms of a problem, such as the unseasonal lack of leaves, a dead limb, visible decay, or a tree leaning dangerously to one side. If the potential for damage is foreseeable and if the tree owner fails to take corrective action, the courts will likely hold the owner legally responsible for damage caused to people or property.

In an unpublished opinion, the Minnesota Court of Appeals found that a landowner was not liable in a personal injury case where the landowner's tree did not pose an obvious danger.12 In that case, a tree trimmer was injured when a decaying branch broke. Liability was not imposed, because the branch appeared to be sturdy and showed no signs of decay. In another case, a landowner was found to owe no duty to protect a pedestrian from a low-hanging branch that was clearly visible.13
What's Entropy Got to Do With It? A Georgia case that reaches the same conclusion about foreseeable danger is worth quoting. Taking judicial notice of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the court said,
This law tells us that all in the universe, trees, human beings, plants, animals, buildings, and all else are headed downward from complexity to simplicity toward decay, deterioration, decadence, and death. Everything heads towards decay; for example, a tree decaying, which is an increase of entropy, or uselessness. We are specifically limiting liability to patent, visible decay, and not the normal, usual, latent, micro-nonvisible, accumulative decay. In other words, there is no duty to consistently and constantly check all pine trees for non-visible rot, as the manifestation of decay must be visible, apparent, and patent so that one could be aware that high winds might combine with visible rot and cause damage.14
Act of God. A frequently heard excuse is that damage caused by a fallen tree was an act of God. Not every tree that falls over in a strong wind and causes damage is the result of an act of God.17 To qualify as an act of God in negligence cases, all of the following elements are needed: 1) the accident must have happened from a force of nature that was both unexpected and unforeseeable; 2) that force must have been the sole cause of the accident; and 3) the accident could not have been prevented by using reasonable care.18 A bolt of lightning is an act of God, if it is the sole cause of an injury. However, a person is liable if his own prior negligence combined with the act of God to cause the injury.

Notes
1 Holmberg v. Bergin, 172 N.W.2d 739 (Minn. 1969).
2 Minn. Stat.ยค561.01
3 Holmberg v. Bergin, supra.
4 Michalson v. Nutting, 275 Mass. 232, 175 N.E. 490 (1931)
5 Richmond v. General Engineering Enterprises Co., 454 So. 2d 16 (Fla App D3, 1984).
6 Holmberg v. Bergin, 172 N.W.2d at 744.
7 Booska v. Patel, 24 Cal. App. 4th 1787, 30 Cal. Rptr. 2d 241 (1994).
8 Michalson v. Nutting, supra, 175 N.E. at 490.
9Smith v. Holt, 174 Va. 213, 5 S.E.2d 492 (1939)
10 See, e.g., Skinner v. Wilder, 38 Vt. 115 (1865).
11 "Hazard tree" is a term of art used by arborists and tree scientists.
12 Allison v. Olson and Mauer, filed December 12, 2000, C0-00-942 (unpublished). http://www.lawlibrary.state.mn.us/archive/ctapun/0012/942.htm
13 Sperr by Sperr v. Ramsey County, 429 N.W.2d 317 (Minn. App. 1988).
14 Cornett v. Agee, 143 Ga. App. 55, 237 S.E.2nd 522, 524 (1977).
15 Rector v. McCrossan, 235 N.W.2d 609 (1975)
16 Guide for Plant Appraisal, 8th Ed. 1992.
17 Swanson v. LaFontaine, 238 Minn. 460, 57 N.W.2d 262 (1953)
18 VandenBroucke v. Lyon County, 301 Minn. 300, 222 N.W.2d 792 (1974)

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You've gotten some good advice here, Marie, to report or maybe add to it, all affected owners could send a certified letter--signed by each-- to every member of the Board requesting action since the HOA is responsible for the trees.

Then all these H/Os should attend a meeting en masses and ask: "What is going to be done??" "When?" Put the pressure on! and keep it on!

We're a high rise with common area drain lines, etc., if a common sea line causes a clog in my unit, the HOA pays to have it fixed. If a common area tree is causing damage or maintenance issues to some roofs, the HOA must take care of it.

If the Board won't, toss them out of office at the next election (find replacements, of course) or launch a recall carefully following the procedure in your documents or state laws.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 09/06/2014 2:20 PM
One thing we did was have an arborist come in and evaluate all of our common area trees. The work that was identified was categorized into priority 1 (diseased or threatening life/property) priority 2 (clearance from roofs) and priority 3 (general pruning). With this report, the Association finally had a plan of action they could follow.

The work identified, at that time, would have cost $50,000. Since that money wasn't available, the Board chose to tackle it over 5 years and increased the tree budget to make that happen. Unfortunately, delays don't account for new problems (and there are plenty).

The problem was, the Board simply wasn't aware of the real issues. The arborist report made them aware.

We didn't have to pay for the arborist as one company was willing to do that work for free providing they were included in the bids. I've heard of other Associations pay for an arborist, tagged/numbered the trees, placed them on a map and evaluated each tree. I don't know what that cost but I would be interested in that happening in our development. Perhaps, after we finish with the first report.


brava!
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/06/2014 2:27 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 09/06/2014 2:20 PM
We didn't have to pay for the arborist as one company was willing to do that work for free providing they were included in the bids. I've heard of other Associations pay for an arborist, tagged/numbered the trees, placed them on a map and evaluated each tree. I don't know what that cost but I would be interested in that happening in our development. Perhaps, after we finish with the first report.


Arborist tagged our 500+ trees and provided a report for less than $2,000. Well worth the investment because, like in Tim's case, we were able to develop a six year plan, which we were able to complete in four because everyone got on board.

What sorts of things were in your report and how long did it take? I've wanted our board to hire a arborist for the last three years, as we have a problem with trees planted too close to our townhomes and are causing sewer line problems. We have made progress on getting rid of the dead and dying trees, but I'd like to see a more formal evaluation so we can consider what type of trees would best replace them, if any.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Shelia,

Our report contained:

The type of tree
The size of tree (diameter at breast height (dbh))
The location of the tree
What, if anything was wrong with the tree
What work needed to be done
Grouped into priorities

Examples (from priority 1, 2 & 3):

[address]
One (1) 12" dbh (diameter at breast height) Redbud (decay and fungal issues) on front
island
- Take down to ground level.
One (1) 6" dbh leaning Maple in backyard common area
- Take down to ground level.

[address] - right side yard - Playground area
One (1) 16" dbh White Oak
- Deadwood pruning
One (1) 14" dbh Poplar
- Deadwood pruning
One (1) 24" dbh Red Oak (in center of playground)
- Deadwood pruning
One (1) 10" dbh Beech
- Pull hanger out of tree
One (1) 20" dbh White Oak
- Deadwood pruning
One (1) 30" dbh Red Oak
- Deadwood pruning

[address]
One (1) 18" dbh Maple.in right front common area
- Maintenance prune
One (1) 18" dbh Locust in center front common area
- Maintenance prune
One (1) 12" dbh Maple in left front common area (on corner)
- Maintenance prune and take off lowest 8" diameter limb over road
One (1) 18" dbh Oak in left side common area
- Maintenance prune
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 09/08/2014 6:31 AM

I've wanted our board to hire a arborist for the last three years, as we have a problem with trees planted too close to our townhomes and are causing sewer line problems.

As I said, our's was done for free by a company who also provided a quote for the work to be done. I did not handle the process, so I can't really tell you much more than to call various companies and see if they have an arborist that will evaluate the trees for you.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Thanks for the tips! I'll bring this to our board at next week's meeting

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Sheila

Our arborist's report was similar to Tim's. Trees were tagged and numbered. For the removals, replacement varieties were recommended. Priorities were 1, 2, and 3.

We chose not to use our tree contractor (who is also an arborist) to prepare the report. That way, we weren't tied in. Also, because we charge some of the cost onto individual homeowners, we didn't want to create the appearance that our tree contractor was just making work for himself.

Since we began working with an arborist 3 years ago, we have reduced our tree inventory by 20% and our tree maintenance costs by around 15%. This year we will start planting new trees.

Our arborist walks the grounds with us once or twice a year. The cost is nominal.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/08/2014 11:43 AM
Sheila

Our arborist's report was similar to Tim's. Trees were tagged and numbered. For the removals, replacement varieties were recommended. Priorities were 1, 2, and 3.

We chose not to use our tree contractor (who is also an arborist) to prepare the report. That way, we weren't tied in. Also, because we charge some of the cost onto individual homeowners, we didn't want to create the appearance that our tree contractor was just making work for himself.

Since we began working with an arborist 3 years ago, we have reduced our tree inventory by 20% and our tree maintenance costs by around 15%. This year we will start planting new trees.

Our arborist walks the grounds with us once or twice a year. The cost is nominal.

That's great! This is exactly what I'd hoped an arborist would do - in the past, the Board would let our tree contractor take a look and tell us what trees should be cut down. For the most part, he's made great choices, but like you, I think it would be better to have another set of eyes do the evaluation (who wouldn't necessarily be motivated by "how much work can I get these people to agree to?")

I'm especially impressed by the maintenance cost reduction - if we take care of the trees properly, we can reduce or avoid costs in things like roof repairs (from branches falling on them) and sewer line disruptions. That little tidbit may be what the board needs to hear to take the idea more seriously - thanks for bringing it up!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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