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EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Hopefully, this not too hard to follow. I have tried to write this clearly but it is a tangled situation. Thoughts or comments welcome and appreciated.

Is it just me or is something wrong with the very real situation below?

Board member β€œA” while violating a covenant is allowed to vote on changes to that same covenant. (the changes passed! and then our lawyer shot it down)

Board member β€œB” who has violated the same covenant wrote the changes that were voted on.

Two days later Board member β€œB” met with the HOA legal counsel on behalf of the board to discuss taking a resident to court for repeatedly violating the same covenant rule.

Now it gets worse Board member β€œA” argued and fought about receiving notification of his violation. Now β€œA” is off of the board (term expired) but…another member resigned and the majority of the current board wants to bring β€œA” back to serve out that term!

Back to β€œB” he recently violated the same rule twice, no notice sent by the board and β€œB” is still one of the contacts with the attorney. β€œB” was questioned directly by a homeowner about his violations at recent meeting and β€œB” refused to answer.

As a board member who has followed the rules, worked to do things that are in the best interest of the [community] I am beyond frustrated and that only grows when other homeowners are being cited for violations.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Don't your covenants, EW, require the votes of all owners to change a covenant?

But are you saying only the board voted? Is it because it's a "rule," and no a convenient?

Why did your HOA attorney "shoot" down the change?

Do A & B outnumber you on the Board? How many directors are there? If a majority of directors would support you, the Board should vote that B may not b in contact with your attorney.

Do your bylaws forbid someone who is in violation of your rules to serve on the Board? Many bylaws do. Or is A no longer in violation.

What is this mysterious covenant??
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EW4 on 09/03/2014 10:11 AM
Board member β€œA” while violating a covenant is allowed to vote on changes to that same covenant. (the changes passed! and then our lawyer shot it down)
Board member β€œB” who has violated the same covenant wrote the changes that were voted on.

Amending covenants normally requires the approval of a high percentage of owners. The board lacks power to amend the covenants by itself. Your attorney has no authority to prevent your board from doing anything; all he can do is offer his advice.

Who has proven that "A" and "B" have violated the covenant? Where is it written that one who violates a covenant loses his right to vote to abolish a covenant?

Quote:

Two days later Board member β€œB” met with the HOA legal counsel on behalf of the board to discuss taking a resident to court for repeatedly violating the same covenant rule.

Same question: Who has proven that "B" has violated the covenant? Where is it written that one who violates a covenant may not speak with the attorney?

Quote:

Board member β€œA” argued and fought about receiving notification of his violation. Now β€œA” is off of the board (term expired) but…another member resigned and the majority of the current board wants to bring β€œA” back to serve out that term!

Same question: Who has proven that "A" has violated the covenant? Where is it written that one who violates a covenant may not serve on the board?

Quote:

Back to β€œB” he recently violated the same rule twice, no notice sent by the board and β€œB” is still one of the contacts with the attorney. β€œB” was questioned directly by a homeowner about his violations at recent meeting and β€œB” refused to answer.

Same question: Who has proven that "B" has violated the covenant?

If the association takes no action and someone feels that there is some conflict of interest or that the covenant should be enforced, they have several options. The least expensive option is to simply vote them off the board. A more expensive option is to enforce the covenant through a civil action, in which case "B" will have no choice but to answer questions and his violation will become a matter of public record.

Quote:

As a board member who has followed the rules, worked to do things that are in the best interest of the [community] I am beyond frustrated and that only grows when other homeowners are being cited for violations.

When the covenants are violated so often that even two board members stand accused, maybe it is time to revise the covenants instead of waging war on the neighbors.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
It is a covenant that was voted on and that is why the lawyer shot it down. Some want to implement a rule to soften a restriction instead of changing the covenant properly! Its not working.

Unfortunately the majority does not support me about "B" working with the attorney. There was one other member who supported not allowing "B" to be involved with the attorney but that member resigned.

Yes, the bylaws forbid violators from serving but once again the majority is not following.

"A" is not in violation at this time but has made it clear that he will do so again in the future on the board or not.

I have been very vocal about these issues and so was the board member that resigned.

This issue is a symptom of bigger problems in my HOA.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
The rule concerns trailers, travel and work,... States not allowed.

We knew A and B violated the rules because we could see the equipment.They had them parked in the their driveways for multiple days. Some have had them for longer violations.

I agree on the having the rule reviewed and changed properly to reflect the community.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Larry you are correct the attorney only advised but noted what was "approved" in that vote was not valid.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Because changing covenants typically is a legal issue, our Board places a proposed change in front of our HOA's attorney to make sure that the proposed change is legal and not in any conflict with existing covenants, state statutes, or local ordinances. It is an expense to pay an attorney for that but it means that we do not waste our time and money with mailing proposals and proxies, establishing a quorum, etc for a covenant change that will ultimately be deemed "illegal" by an attorney or court of law.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AnnH5 on 09/03/2014 6:26 PM
Because changing covenants typically is a legal issue, our Board places a proposed change in front of our HOA's attorney to make sure that the proposed change is legal and not in any conflict with existing covenants, state statutes, or local ordinances. It is an expense to pay an attorney for that but it means that we do not waste our time and money with mailing proposals and proxies, establishing a quorum, etc for a covenant change that will ultimately be deemed "illegal" by an attorney or court of law.

A couple of use now one (as one resigned) pushed for that and it is happening. We have received "proposed" in written changes for a few items and now the board needs to determine if it will move forward. Money well spent up front. I am still not convinced that the changes will be followed by the majority even if passed.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
A deed restriction is only good if it can be determined to have been breached and then enforced. My HOA has added some stupid restriction that would require a great deal of time and effort and money to enforce. We now have a Board complaining that people aren't following their new crazy restriction but the Board is also not able to do much about it because of the time and effort it will now take them to prove their case.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Ann, sounds similar to what was "voted" on here. It would have taken a process to manage the process to enforce the rules.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
LOL- just because something is "legal", doesn't mean it is a great idea. It my case, not only did the Board (and the few owners who passed the amendment- barely passed btw), create an amendment that is difficult to enforce, they also imposed restrictions on the Association as an entity. Nothing like cutting off your nose to spite your face. Unfortunately, some people really don't look at the bigger picture and weigh out all of the possible scenarios before they pull the trigger on their "idea".

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