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Visiting resident's homes to notify them about their compliance issues (to do or not to do?)

Started by EW4 • 34 replies • 2206 views

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EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
I am a Director on my HOA. The community was established in 1996, about 114 homes.

What are the thoughts around around visiting homes in person to inform them of their compliance issues? Our HOA board is looking to re-start this practice. Some have expressed concerns while others are deadest on re instituting the practice. I would like to hear about the pros and cons of this practice from board members of other associations.

Currently, we are notifying residents by letter. Some board members, residents have complained that the letters are impersonal.

Thanks
NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
I would suggest continue sending letters as this is the Boards record of proof of notice. Also helps if homeowner refuses to comply and the Board has to take court action. Check your declarations and by laws, there could possibly be something in them on how to notify homeowners. These situations are never easy. In the letter you could state the Board is open to discuss with the homeowner at their convenience and offer a phone number for them to contact someone and set up a date and time. The letter should also state how many days they have to bring their property into compliance. I hope this helps.
JimR24 (Texas)
Posts: 399
Posted:
Some letters i've seen written to homeowners are pretty good....and well-stated as to intent and reconciliation.

My guess is that personal visits would place additional burden on the Board members, which may not be necessary. Of course now, if some of the board members wanted to take on this task to see how it goes - i guess it'd be up to them to give it a try.

Keep us posting on how this goes for you - okay?

oljim, in texas
Lovin' life with my honey!
and, President of HOA in Texas
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I think letters are best - it creates a paper trail and you avoid confusion (well director #1 said this was ok, but director #2 said it wasn't).

There's also a safety issue. People are really volatile these days and if you go by someone's house to tell them about their trash can being outside or they can't park their second car in the street on the same day they were told they're being demoted or the spouse is leaving them or something else, that may get the board directors a good cussing out at best or a punch in the mouth (or worse).

You can always look at samples of violation letters to see if the letter can be modified, but remember, the idea is to let people know there is a problem that needs to be addressed - being nice is ok, but you need to be professional about it all.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Paying visits to those violating rules and regs. bad idea.
As suggested it complicates the procedure, fails to provide a record of the exchange and places those serving the violations in undo risk.

IMO it would be neither the board members role or that of the MC to deliver by hand the violation.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
A letter does serve as a means of making the notice official, but notes of when an official visit was made, read into the minutes of a board meeting should suffice as well.

The reason I see for NOT doing personal visits is that personal visits are...well....personal. However, HOA matters aren't individual board members vs. residents. They're the entirety of the HOA (as represented by the board) vs. individual homeowners. To that end, I think they should be anything but personal encounters. "Here's a letter from the board that represents the HOA"
GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
I am in favor of visits to point out a problem. It is not a substitute for a violation letter.

I tell them the problem, suggest a solution, and then if nothing is done send a violation letter.

I am not in favor of sending a letter when the people may not know they are in violation, especially if it is a new resident. I think that is one of the things that give HOAs a bad name. Talk first then take official action if needed.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
EW,

The answer can vary depending on the individual receiving the notice and the individual delivering the notice.

Some people simply are not great at delivering the message. They may sound authoritarian or superior. There may be a personality conflict. etc.

Some people do not receive the news well. They may go off on the person calling them names, being threatening, etc.

Sometimes, it works out great.

I think that each person has to make that decision on their own. In our documents, we give an informal notice (which can be delivered in writing or verbally) prior to giving a formal notice (which is always in writing). The formal notice always references the informal notice.
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
From someone who had the "visit", I suggest not doing it. It can create more hostility especially when the supposed violation was not investigated and it was a false allegation.

My visitor came unannounced. I typically only let my friends and family into my home unannounced. An unannounced visit is rude and does nothing but create an uncomfortable situation for both the member and board member.

Stick to the letter and make absolutely certain the owner is in violation.
KimR4 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posted:
I was about to say use a letter. ALWAYS use a letter. Right. Then I remembered how less than 2 months ago I, a director, took 'the walk' for 'the visit' to the new owners with the athletic young sons. They'd been here about 2 weeks. They were already parking in the 'no parking' area right next to their condo. The former owner had removed the 'no parking' sign. The young sons were playing hardball baseball in the grassy area right across from their condo, perilously close to another condo building. I was packing my vehicle to go away for a couple of weeks. I really, really wanted to just ignore and go on vacation. I took the walk, made the visit, the mom was awesome.

I work for the school district in an elementary school. I deal with kids and parents everyday. The visit was pleasant and informative for all of us. The bottom-line for me is if the homeowner is a newcomer, the situation is manageable and within your skill set, take 'the walk' and 'visit'. And document it.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EW4 on 09/02/2014 1:50 AM
Our HOA board is looking to re-start this practice. Some have expressed concerns while others are deadest on re instituting the practice.

I was wondering what caused the Board to abandon the practice in the first place. Are the people who were involved in stopping the practice still on the Board, and what do they have to say about it?
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Yes there are several current members on the board who were there when the practice was stopped including me. Reasons for stopping, too long to contact residents, results not documented, issues dragging on leading to complaints by other residents. Safety, sending board members to homes was very dicey because you never knew what to expect. Today, there are some new members but it is a combination of old and new that are pushing to restart this preactice. Memories if the past problems are well "selective".

I do appreciate the feedback on this topic, great to hear what other communities are doing.
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimR4 on 09/02/2014 4:05 PM

I work for the school district in an elementary school. I deal with kids and parents everyday. The visit was pleasant and informative for all of us. The bottom-line for me is if the homeowner is a newcomer, the situation is manageable and within your skill set, take 'the walk' and 'visit'. And document it.

Hi Kim,

Glad that worked out for you and of course it depends on the circumstances. Generally, I believe its best not to visit neighbors unannounced especially when the situation can get ugly. It could even be dangerous. My neighbor has dogs the size of small ponies and one of them is aggressive. I also have some pretty aggressive neighbors. Don't think board members should put themselves in that kind of situation.

I have a similar job as you as I work in an elementary school and deal with kids and parents everyday as well. Interesting job isn't it?
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
All,

Thank you for your comments and replies. Good to hear the perspectives on this. One my concerns was and has been safety which was touched on by several. However, the majority on the board feel differently, basically there should never be an issue with visiting a neighbor for this purpose is their thought. Another problem has been documentation and it doesn't happen so if the problem persists the initial contact "never" happened!

One member recently visited a homeowner about a violation two times, gave them a copy of the covenants,... the problem was fixed. And now the resident is doing it again! This resident has received several letters in the past for the same issue. Vicious circle.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
You pretty much just answered your own question. A visit in no way constitutes a formal letter or notice. You have no idea what the owner may do or how they might react. And you create a situation that is highly disputable (ie Board member "documented" a visit but owner denies visit ever took place).
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
EW, there is a sample violation letter I posted a few years ago here, maybe it could be modified to fit your situation. http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/49790/view/topic/Default.aspx

There was a great post and article here eon's ago that I'm afraid I lost moving computers, I think it was by Joe West (see CAN link on the left) about the tone a HOA sets when they communicate with homeowners. While you might have to take a get tough approach, the first contact unless it is an egregious violation should be more open and friendly.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Well, this situation will present a challenge to the board. Will the majority follow through with another letter in this instance or do another pointless visit,...TBD?
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
GlennL,

Thanks for the sample letter. I will share it. Interestingly enough [an]issue with the majority of the board has been including a legal statement in any letter. Not neighborly. Residents who have received the letters have said the same. So the Board tried a version w/o the legal statement and the same complaints from the same people. Now we have a set of letters written by our attorney with and without the legal statement but the board has not approved them yet. Now those same board members have no "neighborly" issue with taking residents to collections for not paying fees...they don't want to knock on doors to collect those.
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Do the BOD/Committee members want residents to come to their door(s) to make complaints or transact other assn. business?

Seems like a double-edged sword.
* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RwT on 09/04/2014 6:35 AM
Do the BOD/Committee members want residents to come to their door(s) to make complaints or transact other assn. business?

Seems like a double-edged sword.

Seems like one edge is sharp and the other is dull.

We visit homeowners under 2 circumstances only:

1. Homeowner request; or

2. Something visual relating to the property. (This is not just for violations. We offer to visit when any major renovation is taking place. We discuss experiences other homeowners have had with the particular construction by the original builder. We make alternative recommendations if we observe any cost efficient changes that could be made to their proposed plans. We meet with new contractors if homeowner is comfortable with it.)

All visits are done by 2 Board members. We don't want to overwhelm. Nor do we want to be caught in a misinterpretation of what was said. A writeup is always done for the rest of the Board. If appropriate, we follow up with a note to the homeowner.

By visiting for positive reasons as well as negative reasons, we minimize the impression that the Board is nothing more than a policing body.

In our opinion, if we visited for any reasons other than the 2 stated above, the risks would outweigh the benefits.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Funny, that you ask this question. A long time ago we had a member who was constantly getting visits at home with complaints,... That member complained about it and a motion passed that issues be submitted in writing, email or at a board meeting (exceptions are emergencies).

So I brought that up at a meeting in reference to the board visits on compliance. Those members stated that they wanted to keep the current requirement in place about how residents can submit issues. I pointed out the double standard but got nowhere.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
RwT

this is good. I will definitely highlight as an option.
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NpS on 09/04/2014 7:09 AM
Posted By RwT on 09/04/2014 6:35 AM
Do the BOD/Committee members want residents to come to their door(s) to make complaints or transact other assn. business?

Seems like a double-edged sword.


Seems like one edge is sharp and the other is dull.

We visit homeowners under 2 circumstances only:

1. Homeowner request; or

2. Something visual relating to the property. (This is not just for violations. We offer to visit when any major renovation is taking place. We discuss experiences other homeowners have had with the particular construction by the original builder. We make alternative recommendations if we observe any cost efficient changes that could be made to their proposed plans. We meet with new contractors if homeowner is comfortable with it.)

All visits are done by 2 Board members. We don't want to overwhelm. Nor do we want to be caught in a misinterpretation of what was said. A writeup is always done for the rest of the Board. If appropriate, we follow up with a note to the homeowner.

By visiting for positive reasons as well as negative reasons, we minimize the impression that the Board is nothing more than a policing body.

In our opinion, if we visited for any reasons other than the 2 stated above, the risks would outweigh the benefits.


It was a simple question... I thought.
* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
MicheleH2 (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
No... You always want a paper trail and you want to avoid confrontation. NO matter how you try to word a compliance letter, at least one (1) resident will always feel like the letter is impersonal or sounds treating (but proper delivery of bad information helps.

I'm not sure how your letters reads (I would be interested to read) but it sounds like you need to revamp the verbiage on the letter...

GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182
Posted:
To BankS. There is no reason to let them into your home. You can step outside, meet them in a common area, or make plans to talk in the future.

To RwT. I have people come to my door for board business. I tell them to meet me in a common area in a few minutes. I also get calls everyday. That's part of being a board member. All new residents get a paper that says they can contact any board member from 9 to 9.

To EW4. There is no double standard. The board member is not the one in violation.

And to all of the ones that mention there is no record of the visit, no paper trail. That is the point. Why have paperwork when a suggestion or reminder can take care of it? We have to keep enough records, some forever, as it is.

I will always go with the visit first. Sometimes a phone call will do. I usually wait until I see them, not just drop over unannounced.

EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeR8 on 09/04/2014 1:24 PM
To BankS. There is no reason to let them into your home. You can step outside, meet them in a common area, or make plans to talk in the future.

To RwT. I have people come to my door for board business. I tell them to meet me in a common area in a few minutes. I also get calls everyday. That's part of being a board member. All new residents get a paper that says they can contact any board member from 9 to 9.

To EW4. There is no double standard. The board member is not the one in violation.

And to all of the ones that mention there is no record of the visit, no paper trail. That is the point. Why have paperwork when a suggestion or reminder can take care of it? We have to keep enough records, some forever, as it is.

I will always go with the visit first. Sometimes a phone call will do. I usually wait until I see them, not just drop over unannounced.


Thanks GeorgeR8. I do disagree on the double standard. If board members will not accept visits from residents to discuss issues (compliance or not) why should homeowners visits from them. If the homeowner has to put it in writing it's fair for the board to do the same.
EW4 (West Virginia)
Posts: 95
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeR8 on 09/04/2014 1:24 PM
To BankS. There is no reason to let them into your home. You can step outside, meet them in a common area, or make plans to talk in the future.

To RwT. I have people come to my door for board business. I tell them to meet me in a common area in a few minutes. I also get calls everyday. That's part of being a board member. All new residents get a paper that says they can contact any board member from 9 to 9.

To EW4. There is no double standard. The board member is not the one in violation.

And to all of the ones that mention there is no record of the visit, no paper trail. That is the point. Why have paperwork when a suggestion or reminder can take care of it? We have to keep enough records, some forever, as it is.

I will always go with the visit first. Sometimes a phone call will do. I usually wait until I see them, not just drop over unannounced.


Thanks GeorgeR8. I do disagree on the double standard. If board members will not accept visits from residents to discuss issues (compliance or not) why should homeowners visits from them. If the homeowner has to put it in writing it's fair for the board to do the same.
MicheleH2 (California)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By EW4 on 09/04/2014 1:41 PM
Posted By GeorgeR8 on 09/04/2014 1:24 PM

And to all of the ones that mention there is no record of the visit, no paper trail. That is the point. Why have paperwork when a suggestion or reminder can take care of it? We have to keep enough records, some forever, as it is.




You a in the business of creating a paper trail... you asked the question. If your intent is to reduce the amount of paper that is processed in you office then, by all means (go to their home-but proper documentation is key in our business)

I have made calls to owners, if it is a matter that needs immediate attention (stopping an unapproved installation, damage to common area) but I ensure that I advise my client that a letter is being sent as well.

What happens when you are dealing with an owner that refuses to comply. Now you have to start from the beginning of your paper trail. If that is the way that you want to operate. It's a delay in the process to me. All rules are enforceable and may lead to litigation. Just a thought! But if you a governing a community that complies every time, all of the time (which would be a very unique community), then door knocking sounds like the best method for your community.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
if you go 'door to door' in a typical senior (i.e. demented) community (in certain states)you risk being shot on sight for trespass (if property posted)

food for thought

one really should be invited before entering another's property
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
A board member should never, in my opinion, bother a property owner or resident at their home. I can't see how something good could come of that. If you meet outside and are chatting, you could certainly mention something in a friendly way. Homes are sacred and board members going onto properties and knocking or summoning members is a form of harassment.
Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KarenC15 on 09/09/2014 8:58 PM
A board member should never, in my opinion, bother a property owner or resident at their home. I can't see how something good could come of that. If you meet outside and are chatting, you could certainly mention something in a friendly way. Homes are sacred and board members going onto properties and knocking or summoning members is a form of harassment.

I agree. Personal interactions are not binding. Use official channels of communication and board meetings to communicate. It's clean if not as efficient as confronting people face-to-face.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Yes, I would never consider going to a neighbor's home who is on the board to complain. Their home is sacred and separate from their volunteerism on the board. The only time I would discuss something is when it is a casual meet on the street, and I have done these types of discussions as a board member.
Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I'm with Karen, Kelly & JohnB. Do NOT go to residents' homes (unless an emergency).
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posted:
Yes, I was thinking more on this and wondered if you were a non-resident owner, could you expect members of the board to be at your home off-site? I think not and believe the police might even be glad to escort some strange board volunteer away, if they continued to stalk you...
Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
KimR4 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posted:
In my experience, posted earlier in this thread, this was my first and only contact with a co-owner where I kind of pulled the director card. The family is new to our association and my thought was to be friendly and helpful. I'm not very outgoing so it wasn't easy for me. I just knew I would be less a**-holey than some of our other neighbors in clueing them in. She was outside, in a common area or I never would have approached her. It worked out for us.

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