Garages and parking restrictions

Started by CristyW • 26 replies • 4637 views

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CristyW (Oregon)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Hello,

I am a board member in a fairly new community, which was turned over to the homeowners from the developer just under a year ago. Since then, the board has been hard at work trying to clean up the community after years of limited oversight from the developer. While most of the process has been smooth (albeit very time consuming), we are currently wresting with some issues regarding parking restrictions and garage use.

Our current CCRs state that residents must first park in their garage, then in their driveway and elsewhere only if they have exhausted those two possibilities. Garages are to be used primarily for parking and only secondarily for storage. The language is very specific.

We are a small community of 22 town homes, with four overflow/guest spaces, limited private street parking, and more parking on the adjacent public street. In general, residents don't like the CCRs on parking use because they find them to be too restrictive. Further complicating the issue is the fact that one section of town homes has very small garages, so larger trucks and SUVs don't fit and it's hard to get a car into a garage that also houses large garbage cans and recycling bins. The board agrees that the current CCRs are a bit too restrictive and impractical, so, we brought some changes up for a vote a few months ago. Not enough residents participated in the vote, so no changes took place. While this whole process was playing out, the board passes a series of rules outlining exactly how the parking and garage-use covenants would be enforced. A good number of residents were not happy about being held accountable to CCR that they found unfair and several were very vocal to the board about it. We recommended that they take the lead on initiating another vote and explained the process. Nobody stepped forward to do the work, so I, as a homeowner, took the lead on drafting new documents and finding homeowners to sign the petition. We held another vote, and again, the proposed changes did not pass because we didn't get enough voter turnout.

Long story short, it feels like apathy has gotten the best of our community, so we are left to enforce CCRs that are quite restrictive. I have a few questions about how to do that. In particular, everyone has his or her own opinion and everyone has some kind of excuse.

1. One homeowner is parking in a neighbor's driveway. That neighbor has bought the property as a retirement home, but does not yet live there, so he has asked his neighbor to park in his driveway to create the appearance of habitation in an empty home. Should we allow this to continue if the "first in the garage, then in the driveway" portion of the CCR isn't being followed?

2. One homeowner's garage is almost completely filled from top to bottom with storage items, but he also owns a motorcycle, which he stores in his garage. He claims that he cannot park his car in his garage because he parks his motorcycle there (there isn't room for both vehicles). I'm not sure whether a motorcycle falls into the same category as a car and he's certainly using his garage primarily for storage. He owns two cars, one SUV and one enormous truck. The truck doesn't fit into the garage at all, so he continuously parks in overflow parking, which is limited and will soon to be converted to visitor-only parking. He is a board member, so some of us are concerned that allowing him to skirt the "garage first" part of the rule will look bad.

3. Several homeowners complain that they can't fit one or both of their cars in their garages. Do they get fined for not parking in the garage at all? If they have one car and can't park in their garage, are they forced to use street parking instead of parking in the driveway?

4. To what extent do we offer petitions to exempt residents from the rules? Are there qualified exemptions? If so, what are they?

5. Some board members want to allow resident parking in overflow spaces as long as no single resident is parking in overflow parking too often. I argue that defining what "too often" looks like is messy and that overflow parking (4 spaces) should be for visitors only. What is the standard policy in such a situation?

All board members are new at enforcing CCRs. We are trying our best and learning as we go, but it's been stressful at best. We are burnt out and desperately need help to negotiate some of these remaining issues without creating an antagonistic environment in our community. Thanks for your time.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

You are so lucky that parking is a major issue worthy of internet attention!

All your other issues must have been resolved w/o a hitch!

In any event, IMO:

1. One homeowner is parking in a neighbor's driveway. That neighbor has bought the property as a retirement home, but does not yet live there, so he has asked his neighbor to park in his driveway to create the appearance of habitation in an empty home. Should we allow this to continue if the "first in the garage, then in the driveway" portion of the CCR isn't being followed?
NO

2. One homeowner's garage is almost completely filled from top to bottom with storage items, but he also owns a motorcycle, which he stores in his garage. He claims that he cannot park his car in his garage because he parks his motorcycle there (there isn't room for both vehicles). I'm not sure whether a motorcycle falls into the same category as a car and he's certainly using his garage primarily for storage. He owns two cars, one SUV and one enormous truck. The truck doesn't fit into the garage at all, so he continuously parks in overflow parking, which is limited and will soon to be converted to visitor-only parking. He is a board member, so some of us are concerned that allowing him to skirt the "garage first" part of the rule will look bad.
{b]A vehicle is parked 'first' in the garage - he is in compliance.

3. Several homeowners complain that they can't fit one or both of their cars in their garages. Do they get fined for not parking in the garage at all? If they have one car and can't park in their garage, are they forced to use street parking instead of parking in the driveway?
[NO - they may park in the public street.

4. To what extent do we offer petitions to exempt residents from the rules? Are there qualified exemptions? If so, what are they?
Only handicapped exemptions should be allowed.

5. Some board members want to allow resident parking in overflow spaces as long as no single resident is parking in overflow parking too often. I argue that defining what "too often" looks like is messy and that overflow parking (4 spaces) should be for visitors only. What is the standard policy in such a situation?
Visitor parking is for visitors ONLY

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

oh crud - no edit feature

1. One homeowner is parking in a neighbor's driveway. That neighbor has bought the property as a retirement home, but does not yet live there, so he has asked his neighbor to park in his driveway to create the appearance of habitation in an empty home. Should we allow this to continue if the "first in the garage, then in the driveway" portion of the CCR isn't being followed?
NO

2. One homeowner's garage is almost completely filled from top to bottom with storage items, but he also owns a motorcycle, which he stores in his garage. He claims that he cannot park his car in his garage because he parks his motorcycle there (there isn't room for both vehicles). I'm not sure whether a motorcycle falls into the same category as a car and he's certainly using his garage primarily for storage. He owns two cars, one SUV and one enormous truck. The truck doesn't fit into the garage at all, so he continuously parks in overflow parking, which is limited and will soon to be converted to visitor-only parking. He is a board member, so some of us are concerned that allowing him to skirt the "garage first" part of the rule will look bad.
A vehicle is parked 'first' in the garage - he is in compliance.

3. Several homeowners complain that they can't fit one or both of their cars in their garages. Do they get fined for not parking in the garage at all? If they have one car and can't park in their garage, are they forced to use street parking instead of parking in the driveway?
NO - they may park in the public street.

4. To what extent do we offer petitions to exempt residents from the rules? Are there qualified exemptions? If so, what are they?
Only handicapped exemptions should be allowed.

5. Some board members want to allow resident parking in overflow spaces as long as no single resident is parking in overflow parking too often. I argue that defining what "too often" looks like is messy and that overflow parking (4 spaces) should be for visitors only. What is the standard policy in such a situation?
Visitor parking is for visitors ONLY.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

We are also a townhouse community with limited parking. We don't have parking priority rules for cars and trucks, but we do have rules for boats, trailers, ATVs, etc. These cannot be visible and must be stored in garages. This restriction was in our original CC&Rs, and if they weren't, I would attempt to get this rule adopted.

As a practical matter, our most common parking issues are snow removal and commercial signs.

Snow Removal. There was nothing in our original CC&Rs about street parking during snow removal. We recently adopted a no tolerance policy for vehicles left on the street when the plows come through. We charge a $100 fine for every incident. To help alleviate the congestion, we sought volunteers who had extra spaces on their driveways. With the volunteer owner's approval, we designated the available spaces to specific individuals. We have vacant houses, and we get permission to allocate those driveways. Like with your situation, some people like when a vacant house has the appearance of being lived in. We have people who go away for the winter, so that freed up some spaces. We have people who don't go out in the snow, so there is no issue about driveway parking blocking the car in the garage. They have each other's phone numbers in case of an emergency. It took us 2 seasons to get to the point where there are no vehicles on our streets when we are plowed. If we had to put it to a community vote, which we haven't, I am sure it would pass.

Commercial Signs. Our original CC&Rs don't allow commercial signs. Most people have magnetic signs these days that they cover over or remove when parked in the community. We don't enforce this rule diligently. If a Board member sees it, we don't do anything about it. If we get a complaint from another homeowner, we send a friendly reminder letter. We have fines on the books, but we haven't bothered with them for years. People don't pay these fines and we aren't going to go after them. It's not worth the effort. The only lawsuit we ever had was from a homeowner who objected to our rule about commercial signs on his truck. We lost. Although we have changed our rules so that we don't think we would lose again, it's nearly impossible for us to enforce effectively.

We do have our specific situations. Our houses were 2-3 bedroom when built. We have one 3-generation family with 8 people living in one house. There are 4 adults with 4 cars and a single garage. Obviously, their garage is crammed with storage, so 1 car goes on the driveway and 3 cars go on the street. It's the most congested spot in the community.

We also have people with as many as 5 cars. We have had lengthy discussions about how we could restrict the number of cars a person has on-site or how many cars a person can park on a street. Every time we have these conversations, they go nowhere. The community is so diverse that it would be impossible to keep the peace and administer the rule. Or at least that's the way we see it. We don't want to police it, and we don't want to pay someone to police it. We have better things to do with our time.

So in answer to your questions:
1. Yes I would allow individual homeowners to make their own arrangements. If your streets are narrow like ours, they will be safer.
2. I would disregard the rules about what can be in a garage. I can't imagine how you would enforce it. And if you ever decided to issue waivers, I can't imagine how you would do so even-handedly without generating bad will.
3. The complaints about what will fit in a garage are legitimate, and you are looking at a nightmare trying to decide how to enforce. 4. Petiti nightmares. They will eat you alive. And the process will alienate homeowners more than now. Not a good way to start your post-transition period.
5. It will be a nightmare trying to enforce frequency of parking in open spaces. Are the spaces clearly marked as visitor parking and do you want that look in your community? If it's just an open lot, you're going to have to monitor a lot of information about who owns what car. We have only one rule. If a vehicle that is parked on the street is unregistered or lacks a current inspection sticker, we contact the police, tell the officer that we think it is abandoned, and ask the PD to contact the registered owner to let them know that it will be towed.

Maybe when the next Board takes over, they will come up with different solutions. But in our experience, safety and consistent/ efficient enforcement are our primary objectives when it comes to parking. The homeowners are going to work out everything else on their own.

Hope some of this is useful to you. Best of luck.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CristyW on 08/30/2014 1:44 PM

1. One homeowner is parking in a neighbor's driveway. That neighbor has bought the property as a retirement home, but does not yet live there, so he has asked his neighbor to park in his driveway to create the appearance of habitation in an empty home. Should we allow this to continue if the "first in the garage, then in the driveway" portion of the CCR isn't being followed?

Not a board issue in my opinion. This is an agreement between neighbors.

Quote:

Posted By CristyW on 08/30/2014 1:44 PM

2. One homeowner's garage is almost completely filled from top to bottom with storage items, but he also owns a motorcycle, which he stores in his garage. He claims that he cannot park his car in his garage because he parks his motorcycle there (there isn't room for both vehicles). I'm not sure whether a motorcycle falls into the same category as a car and he's certainly using his garage primarily for storage. He owns two cars, one SUV and one enormous truck. The truck doesn't fit into the garage at all, so he continuously parks in overflow parking, which is limited and will soon to be converted to visitor-only parking. He is a board member, so some of us are concerned that allowing him to skirt the "garage first" part of the rule will look bad.

A motorcycle is indeed a motorized vehicle. The rule you identified is being followed, a motorized vehicle is being parked in the garage before other vehicles are being parked in the driveway and elsewhere.

Yep, it's a loophole. Blame the writers of the covenants, not the person taking advantage of the loophole.

Quote:

Posted By CristyW on 08/30/2014 1:44 PM

3. Several homeowners complain that they can't fit one or both of their cars in their garages. Do they get fined for not parking in the garage at all? If they have one car and can't park in their garage, are they forced to use street parking instead of parking in the driveway?

In my opinion, they should be parking in their driveway before the street. That is, expecting that the vehicle can fit in the driveway without blocking the sidewalks.

In my opinion, this is another loophole. The member is willing to park in the garage, but the physical limitations prevent them from doing so. The CC&Rs don't prohibit the vehicle from parking within the development, therefore, they park where they can.

Blame this one on the developer (heck all developers) who are building smaller garages then in the past even though vehicles have started to become larger.

In looking for a new home, and we want to use the garage to house the garage, I have started actually measuring the length of the garage. There have been many properties that we had to turn down because it wouldn't fit our mini-van (height was ok but the stairs, leading from the garage to the house, took away enough room that the van won't fit (typically by a few inches or up to a full foot).

Quote:

Posted By CristyW on 08/30/2014 1:44 PM

4. To what extent do we offer petitions to exempt residents from the rules? Are there qualified exemptions? If so, what are they?

My understanding is that the Board does not have the authority to waive a covenant unless the covenants grants the Board this authority (some do, most do not).

However, the Board, typically, may choose not to enforce a specific covenant. This isn't a waiver it's a choice. Of course, the next Board may decide to enforce all covenants. This could change from Board to Board.

Quote:

Posted By CristyW on 08/30/2014 1:44 PM

5. Some board members want to allow resident parking in overflow spaces as long as no single resident is parking in overflow parking too often. I argue that defining what "too often" looks like is messy and that overflow parking (4 spaces) should be for visitors only. What is the standard policy in such a situation?

Living in a town home development, I understand the issue well. We handle it as a first come first served issue. Other Associations issue permits and tow violators. The policy you adopt should be something you can live with, track if needed, and easily enforce if necessary.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CristyW on 08/30/2014 1:44 PM
Hello,
I am a board member in a fairly new community, which was turned over to the homeowners from the developer just under a year ago. Since then, the board has been hard at work trying to clean up the community after years of limited oversight from the developer. While most of the process has been smooth (albeit very time consuming), we are currently wresting with some issues regarding parking restrictions and garage use.

Why do you people do this to yourselves? Are there so few crises left in the world that we now have to create them? How could you possibly not notice that the parking and garage situation was going to be a problem? Your developer built out every possible square foot leaving nothing for his buyers to actually use. It sounds like most of the buyers found a way to live with the reality of inadequate parking but now the BOD is on some sort of mission from God to cram the unrealistic restrictions down the throats of the other owners.

You wrote, "In general, residents don't like the CCRs on parking use because they find them to be too restrictive." If this is the general will of the owners, then why wage war on them? What do you think you will win? You already demonstrated bad judgment by buying into a rabbit warren with inadequate parking. Quit while you are ahead, because a person who makes poor decisions for themselves is not likely to make good decisions for others.

CristyW (Oregon)
Posts: 3

Posted:

I came to this forum asking sincerely for advice and support for a job I am learning to do. Please do not belittle me.

I am not trying to create a crisis, but I AM trying to create a living space that is fair to all people. One of our residents is employed at a property management company and insists on pointing on when we are being discriminatory in our application of the CCRs. If we are not enforcing everything to the letter, we hear about it. If we are enforcing everything to the letter, we also hear about it.

How could I not notice the parking situation? Well, because two of the three buildings in my property have adequate garage spaces (wide tandem), but the third building has a different floor plan with much, much smaller garages. It was built about a year after I purchased my home. So yes, the parking restrictions are unrealistic and the board has attempted (twice) to change them. Unfortunately, we need almost 100% participation in a vote to approve an amendment. So, we are stuck enforcing the CCRs we have, which (last I checked) was the purpose of a CCR contract.

So, I'm not waging war, nor am I a poor decision maker, but I am in need of some advice. If you don't have any, why take the time to simply harass me?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I understand your situation and it IS a problem for YOUR HOA, Cristy. Both JohnB & Larry have a history of being gruff--unhappy lives, perhaps. But I'm no shrink. don't let them get you down.

I'll try to think more about your issue tomorrow.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

gruff = realistic = factual = efficient

e.g. your doctor may be efficient and competent and civil, if so, he/she has no time for pleasantries

or

he/she may spend 5 min. out of your 15 min. allotment being pleasant

There are CCRs

either

enforce them TOTALLY against EVERYONE

or

ignore them

but

you may not 'cherry pick' them

ps. now YOU will be unhappy, while I remain exactly as before ~ pragmatic

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Cristy

You say all agree that your current parking regulations/restrictions do not work so why even enforce them?

Are there problems, complaints etc.?

If no issues, then I suggest treat the issue with benign neglect.

CristyW (Oregon)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Until now, we have treated the parking issues with "benign neglect" and in my opinion, our problems associated with parking are fairly minor, so I would prefer to just let it go (it helps that our community is very small). However, we have received complaints that we are not consistently enforcing the CC&Rs. So now we are trying to find a middle way so that we are not policing the area, yet we are being fair in our enforcement.

Thank you to those who responded with constructive feedback. It helps me get an idea of what I should be doing and where the gray areas lie. I appreciate the time you took to help me out.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

There are CCRs
either enforce them TOTALLY against EVERYONE or ignore them
but you may not 'cherry pick' them
ps. now YOU will be unhappy, while I remain exactly as before ~ pragmatic

I disagree John.

Clearly state your priorities for the community.

Apply HOA rules in accordance with those priorities.

Be transparent in your application or non-application of specific rules.

Make sure that your decisions make economic sense for the community, and be prepared to defend all of your choices on financial grounds.

Don't get bogged down by rules that don't work or are too costly to enforce.

Build trust by consistently setting and achieving goals that match your announced priorities.

John, I am not saying that your style does not work. It has the benefits of being clear and predictable. But for me, it's too inflexible and tends to antagonize.

Example issue: Our CC&Rs don't allow any businesses. Do we enforce it? No. Are we going to go through the bother and expense of amending our CC&Rs to allow people to run businesses out of their homes? No, not unless the type of business that one resident decides to operate out of his home is radically different than what we have now. That in my opinion is being pragmatic.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

There are CCRs
either enforce them TOTALLY against EVERYONE or ignore them
but you may not 'cherry pick' them
ps. now YOU will be unhappy, while I remain exactly as before ~ pragmatic

I disagree John.

1 Clearly state your priorities for the community.

Apply HOA rules in accordance with those priorities.

Be transparent in your application or non-application of specific rules.

Make sure that your decisions make economic sense for the community, and be prepared to defend all of your choices on financial grounds.

Don't get bogged down by rules that don't work or are too costly to enforce.

2Build trust by consistently setting and achieving goals that match your announced priorities.

John, I am not saying that your style does not work. It has the benefits of being clear and predictable. But for me, it's too inflexible and tends to antagonize.

Example issue: 3Our CC&Rs don't allow any businesses. Do we enforce it? No. Are we going to go through the bother and expense of amending our CC&Rs to allow people to run businesses out of their homes? No, not unless the type of business that one resident decides to operate out of his home is radically different than what we have now. That in my opinion is being pragmatic.

1 - not YOUR priorities - the duties are spelled out in the covenants

2 - not priorities but responsibilities as specified in the covenants

3 - should a member write a signed complaint you, as directors, had BEST enforce the covenants

Unless your covenants are so vague as to be rendered unenforceable there would be little thought involved in adhering to them - merely follow the contract

that is correct: the CONTRACT, which you, as directors, are duty bound to administer

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

So John

What would you in the example I gave of CC&Rs not allowing any businesses.

Would you notify every homeowner who works from home, has an office in her home, or runs an internet business that they are in violation?

Would you institute a fining policy for home businesses since we have none for this type of infraction?

Would you go to the expense of amending CC&Rs? Our county recorder of deeds charges $10 per member household for any HOA recording.

Obviously, per your hard and fast rules, we must do something about it. I totally disagree.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Then, as per your logic, the covenants serve no purpose, unless, of course, in your PERSONAL opinion, there is a violation.

That would define: arbitrary and capricious.

There is a contract.

There are directors entrusted with the administration of said contract.

Benign neglect is acceptable UNTIL a written complaint is received.

Then, that restriction MUST be enforced EQUALLY against ALL the members.

or changed by super-majority vote of said membership

welcome to the happyland of make-believe known as 'community living'

.....rant over

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 09/02/2014 2:41 PM
Then, as per your logic, the covenants serve no purpose, unless, of course, in your PERSONAL opinion, there is a violation.

*** You aren't following my logic at all. In my HOA, our Board has set 3 priorities in decreasing order of importance. Safety - If a rule involves safety, we apply it with rigor. Property values - If a rule enhances values, we get behind it. Community Goodwill - If a rule encourages a sense of community, we promote it. Any rule that doesn't have any of these attributes is not likely to be enforced. We have made these priorities known to the community, and we apply the rules as fairly and equitably as we can in keeping with these 3 priorities. We have received strong support for having set a new cooperative tone and positive direction for our HOA.

That would define: arbitrary and capricious. There is a contract. There are directors entrusted with the administration of said contract. Benign neglect is acceptable UNTIL a written complaint is received.

*** There is nothing arbitrary or capricious about what we do. The Board is applying its best business judgment, which is the standard by which we are measured under the law. We respond to every written complaint within 24 hours.

Then, that restriction MUST be enforced EQUALLY against ALL the members.

*** We don't apply a rule differently to different members. And we don't give equal weight to every rule. There is a difference between the two.

or changed by super-majority vote of said membership
welcome to the happyland of make-believe known as 'community living'
.....rant over

*** But John, you've taken the easy out. I put a set of questions to you about our "no business rule." I asked how you would deal with it. You answered by rejecting out of hand how we run our HOA. But you never answered my questions. Please do. And please demonstrate to me that you aren't wasting time and money unnecessarily.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Hi Christy: You said "The board agrees that the current CCRs are a bit too restrictive and impractical, so, we brought some changes up for a vote a few months ago. Not enough residents participated in the vote, so no changes took place. While this whole process was playing out, the board passes a series of rules outlining exactly how the parking and garage-use covenants would be enforced. A good number of residents were not happy about being held accountable to CCR that they found unfair and several were very vocal to the board about it. We recommended that they take the lead on initiating another vote and explained the process. Nobody stepped forward to do the work, so I, as a homeowner, took the lead on drafting new documents and finding homeowners to sign the petition. We held another vote, and again, the proposed changes did not pass because we didn't get enough voter turnout."

The Board did what they were suppose to do. Bring changes to a vote. Didn't get enough votes to change CC&R's. End of problem. Enforce CC&R's. There will always be some homeowners who do not like CC&Rs. I often wonder why they purchase properties that have a HOA. Anyway, you can not satisfy everybody. If the Board enforces the CC&Rs they are doing what they were elected to do and apparently the majority of homeowners agree. Don't try to satisfy the residents that are not happy. You may not be liked, but this comes with being a Board member. Good luck.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Sorry I mispelled your name.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

I hope my entire day doesn't go this way. Looks like I can't spell anything right. Better get off this forum. Have a great day.

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

I'm just curious if you have ever sought consensus to change these policies. They sound so complicated that it would be hard to comply or enforce. Why not redo your docs with some common sense rules. I don't use my garage for a car because it is basically a gas bomb that is inside my home if the building should catch fire. I can't imagine why you would force people to have cars inside the garage when there is a driveway.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

If your home is built as per the IBC the garage is a 1 hour rated fire and smoke compartment OUTSIDE of your living space. (same minimum code as Panama or Costa Rico)

e.g. the METAL clad door to the interior - the requirement that all sheetrock seams be taped and sealed - no interconnecting ductwork - etc.

This is why the garage is not, repeat NOT, a habitable space

Engineers and architects actually know what they are doing

DOH

Garages are DESIGNED to store motorized vehicles powered by flammable fuels

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

NpS,

when we receive a 'no business allowed' complaint we generally send a letter to the member and if no action taken to cease and desist (or hide better) report the business to the IRS and the appropriate state licensing dept AND to the owner's insurance agency of record - amazing how the IRS defines primary RESIDENCE and the tax consequences of operating a business from it

we HAD a home craft business with daily UPS and FEDEX trucks picking up merchandise - our procedure of notifying appropriate agencies put the brakes on the delivery vehicles - the business either stopped or became invisible - either way, problem solved

whether the operator is now taking product 'off site' for shipping or stopped manufacture is a moot point for us as the business is now invisible

w/o a written complaint, 'benign neglect'

common sense is, today, far from common

ps. it actually is a crime to not report income and pay taxes

the 'perp' is a felon whether convicted or not (hence the term 'convicted felon' as opposed to merely 'felon')

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

You obviously aren't familiar with my place, so I'll give you a pass on your tone. If you're comfortable with the construction in your place, then I think it's fine to have your baby sleep above 30 gallons of fuel in the absence of hard wired fire alarms in a seven unit building and no sprinklers.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 09/10/2014 3:48 PM
NpS,

when we receive a 'no business allowed' complaint we generally send a letter to the member and if no action taken to cease and desist (or hide better) report the business to the IRS and the appropriate state licensing dept AND to the owner's insurance agency of record - amazing how the IRS defines primary RESIDENCE and the tax consequences of operating a business from it

*** To my knowledge, we have never received a complaint about a business being run out of a house. Regarding tax consequences, I know that many people take a tax credit for their home offices, but I have no way of knowing if any are tax dodgers.

we HAD a home craft business with daily UPS and FEDEX trucks picking up merchandise - our procedure of notifying appropriate agencies put the brakes on the delivery vehicles - the business either stopped or became invisible - either way, problem solved

*** I can understand the concern if more trucks are going to be coming through because of a business. But even today, in our small community, there's a FedEx or UPS truck dropping stuff off at least every other day.

whether the operator is now taking product 'off site' for shipping or stopped manufacture is a moot point for us as the business is now invisible

*** I think you have described it well John. If the business is invisible (not putting an additional burden on HOA facilities), then no reason to get up in arms.

w/o a written complaint, 'benign neglect'

*** Agreed. So apparently you and I are on the same page.

common sense is, today, far from common

*** Quick story. One of our original owners put a beauty salon in her basement. Instead of having a powder room on the first floor like all the other houses, she had it put in her basement. On the first floor, she enlarged the entryway so that she had a small waiting room for her next appointment.

*** So now consider the developer. On the one hand, the CC&Rs that he put in place for the HOA did not allow any businesses of any kind. On the other, he built out her home specifically so that it could accommodate her salon business.

*** Recently, a potential buyer's RE agent asked if we would allow a psychologist to have an office for one-at-a-time appointments. We said No. But it's rare that we get asked in advance.

ps. it actually is a crime to not report income and pay taxes

the 'perp' is a felon whether convicted or not (hence the term 'convicted felon' as opposed to merely 'felon')

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KarenC15 on 09/13/2014 11:22 PM
You obviously aren't familiar with my place, so I'll give you a pass on your tone. If you're comfortable with the construction in your place, then I think it's fine to have your baby sleep above 30 gallons of fuel in the absence of hard wired fire alarms in a seven unit building and no sprinklers.

? But it is acceptable to have your baby strapped INTO said vehicle while in motion on the public roads ?

ps. code requires a multiple dwelling to have hard-wired smoke detectors - if y'all do not, y'all are in violation and residing in a structure "not fit for human occupation"

pps. fuel tanks on motor vehicles NEVER, repeat NEVER, spontaneously combust - the building, if properly constructed, would ALREADY be engulfed before the diesel fuel became an issue

ppps. diesel fuel, while flammable, is merely filtered #2 fuel oil and requires 'vaporization' before it will burn - try lighting a (soda) capful with a match, it will NOT light if the match is introduced 'upwind'

KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118

Posted:

Yes, our buildings are out of compliance and that was reported to the board 5 years ago. They don't care.

I really don't want to endlessly argue about the safety of garages. My original post was to point out that it seems like a ridiculous requirement to ask people to park inside it because they might have concerns. The original poster was saying their HOA was spending time, effort and possibly considering spending money to enforce something that it sounds the members no longer want or need.

I have had a firefighter evaluate my home and it will basically burn in 2 minutes. I don't know about the garage, but it is under a bedroom and I like having the choice not to park it under there.

Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KarenC15 on 09/14/2014 1:31 PM
Yes, our buildings are out of compliance and that was reported to the board 5 years ago. They don't care.

.......

I have had a firefighter evaluate my home and it will basically burn in 2 minutes. I don't know about the garage, but it is under a bedroom and I like having the choice not to park it under there.

Try notifying your department of code enforcement of the violations.

? 2 minutes ? Yet you and your baby continue to reside in said structure!

ps I have no idea how long it would take for my home to burn, but I have a 'dual type' battery smoke detector in EVERY room including garage PLUS the required by code interconnected hard-wired pair which 'came with the house'. Total additional cost = $60

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