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TimG2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Our current board spent over $4000.00 more than the original budget called for and proceeded to change the budget to look like they were within budget. This resulted in $4000.00 less being budgeted to go into savings. We own our own roads and need every penny we can save to pay for this when the time comes, which may be sooner rather than later.

Is changing the budget allowed mid year under any circumstances?

Our budget is supposed to be presented at the annual meeting in November.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Check your documents and see what they say.

Did you ask the board why the actual expenses exceeded $4000 - for example, maybe the extra charges were due to the kickass winter most of the country had this year. Do you have more delinquencies that expected? And how did they change the budget - reduce or cut some services? Are they trying to change the amount of the assessment mid year (if that's the case, check your documents again to see if that's doable).

You say the budget is presented in November - are you talking about next year's budget or a recap of what went on this year? If it's the former, it would appear the budget was bound to change anyway because it's a new year and you have to anticipate the cost of living will increase and past history should help you in planning. That said, budgeting anything isn't precise because life happens.


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Tim

A budget is at best a forecast and is often changed as the year progresses.

They did not hide the $4K shortage. What they appear to have done is said Ok we had a $4K shortfall and rather then raise dues to make up for the loss we are going to underfund the reserve/savings.

You seem pretty fast in accusing them of being underhanded maybe even operating illegal. The fact that you know of the $4K shortfall says nothing was hidden.

It seems to me you might be having more issues with the BOD then just the shifting of monies.

FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
The budget needs to be flexible and cutting back on reserve contributions is one way to keep within budget. The big question is whether there were less necessary things in the budget that could have been cut back on instead of cutting back on the reserves.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
There is a difference between changing what funds are spent on and changing the budget. The budget should not be changed once it is approved. Variances of actual expenses from budget amounts should be explained. But if the budget is changed when spending is different from the original budget, then the budget serves no real purpose.
CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457
Posted:
Do you maintain a budget at home? If you've budgeted $200 for trash removal, and three months into the year they raise the price, what is your answer to the trash company? "oh sorry sirs, but I've only budgeted $200, so you are SOL"? I don't think so, so why would you feel that the HOA Board of Directors has a different set of rules when it comes to a budget.

A budget is, in simple terms a living breathing document, one that even in normal circumstance will reflect some changes through out the year. From the dictionary:
Budget-[buhj-it]
1. an estimate, often itemized, of expected income and expense for a given period in the future.
2.a plan of operations based on such an estimate.
3.an itemized allotment of funds, time, etc., for a given period.
4.the total sum of money set aside or needed for a purpose:
the construction budget.

The important question for you to ask yourself is "why don't I have something better to do with my time than come up with worries or concerns that are built on irrational thought patterns on why the HOA Board does what it does"? Gheezzz...
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
well said Crystal ! Association budgets are even more unpredictable and as pointed out before they weren't trying to hide anything.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Many homeowners do not know how to read a budget especially when Actual is thrown in...LOL
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
There is no question that if needs change, then spending may differ from what was budgeted. However, basic fiscal discipline demands that performance be measured against the original budget. That is, how does actual spending compare to what was planned in the budget. You should not change the budget when you change how the money is spent. If you do that, comparisons of plan vs. actual don't mean anything.
TimG2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Our rules require a new budget to be presented at our Annual HOA meeting in November for projected spending for the next calendar year.
I've served 3 terms on the board and if we spent more than was projected, we explained it at the next annual meeting. I know that at time unexpected expenses occur, but they shouldn't be grounds to change the projected budget to make it look like the board was within what was projected. We own our roads and one year we had to pay for a relatively minor repair that was caused by old tree roots but exceeded our projections. We didn't meet what we had projected. It was explained at he annual meeting and was accepted as to why. I never liked that the board with 2 outgoing members had to make up a budget for the next board with 2 out of 6 new members to follow, but that's our rules.

I "may", and probably will, ask why at the next annual meeting but wanted to know if this is in any way proper, or any thoughts on the topic.

I'd like to know if this is normal or not normal and how to approach the issue without making it too controversial, if it can be.
I am not the worlds best diplomat and like to hear how other would or wouldn't approach the issue.
I find it hard just to type a short question so I may not clarify myself clearly in the original post. I don't check my e-am daily as most do. I just had to make 8 corrections on the prior line and more on this line due to physical issues which make my typing horrid, so try to understand that I just want opinions and how to deal with things without going into too much detail.
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 08/20/2014 6:10 AM
Many homeowners do not know how to read a budget especially when Actual is thrown in...LOL

Agreed. In 3 years on the Board this go-round, we have had only one question about a line item on the budget at an annual meeting. We answered it. There was no follow-up question.

We don't present or explain Budgets v. Actuals. We would lose most of the attendees.

It all depends on your audience. Ours wants to know whether we met our operational goals and what changes we plan to make in the coming year, but not at the BVA detail level.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
I still don't understand what the problem is. Part of preparing a budget calls for one to compare actual costs against projected figures. If they're higher, you find out why - maybe you underestimated what it should have been. That can happen, especially if you do repairs and find even more problems than you anticipated. That's why I don't understand your statement "I know that at times unexpected expenses occur, but they shouldn't be grounds to change the projected budget to make it look like the board was within what was projected." It's a PROJECTED budget, so nothing's been finalized yet. Get the story behind the numbers and then see where you are and where you might need to be.

You should already know this because you were on the board for three years. Since you'r talking about talking about next year's budget, did you look at budgeted vs. actual dollars from those years to identify trends? Did you present that to the board and ask if they did the same? Has anyone taken a look at certain line items that went over budget year after year to see what could be done, such as a change in contractors?

You asked how you should approach the issue and as my board's former treasurer, this is how we did it. It's a little different for us because we could increase assessments up to 5% over the current year without homeowner approval. In December, everyone gets a copy of the new budget (itemized), along with projections on how the current year might end, and then we publish the actual ending figures in the spring (also itemized). People aren't always crazy about what we tell them, but they understand how we got there. So you're going to have to man up and ask questions - if you do so without necessarily accusing anyone of incompetence, fraud, etc., you should be OK. If they don't want to explain anything, you have bigger problems - what is it Melissa always says - it's not just your money, it's everyone's money, so the Board should be candid with homeowners and show them the figures. If you don't like what you see, get on the board or offer to work with them.

I get the sense your problem is the assessments are about to go up and you don't like it, but you can't expect to pay for 2015 work with, say, 2013 dollars. For example when was this road work done? You can't expect to pay for 2015 work with, say, 2013 dollars. I believe asphalt is a byproduct of oil and you know how those prices have gone up and down (mostly up!) like an elevator. The costs of transporting everything from point A to B costs more and so contractors adjust their prices and pass it on to the customer. There have been increases in insurance, labor, etc., and all of that will play a role in what you actually pay.

You also didn't say if you've had an increases in delinquencies. If so, the number of dollars you actually have on hand is less than you anticipated, and if it's significantly less, you have hard decisions to make, such as delaying a project or transferring dollars from one line item (maybe they weren't needed in that area after all).

Finally, how much are you paying in assessments and what services do they cover besides the roads? I wouldn't be surprised if they're lower than where they really need to be. People always yell about "high assessments", but don't bother to look at the budget (all of it) to see what's being covered. If you want to keep assessments "low", the alternative is deferred maintenance, which only delays the inevitable or perhaps you need to make some areas homeowner responsibility instead of the association - which will likely require a change in the CCRs (and more money to consult an attorney to make sure you do it right)


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BruceH9 (North Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posted:
In our HOA, the best practice that we follow is to:

- leave the budget as approved
- note the overage
- evaluate repair/replacement for eligibility of reserve fund usage and use if appropriate
- evaluate if this will be recurring and require an adjustment on the next budget
- evaluate if there is any impact on assessments and adjust accordingly
- report at the annual meeting

I don't think anyone expects board members to be able to use a crystal ball to predict future expenses, but to make their best estimate based on history. The fact that the project was not budgeted adequately is good information for moving forward and should be preserved to help future board members make use of that history when working on their budgets.

BH
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceH9 on 08/26/2014 8:08 AM
In our HOA, the best practice that we follow is to:

- leave the budget as approved
- note the overage
- evaluate repair/replacement for eligibility of reserve fund usage and use if appropriate
- evaluate if this will be recurring and require an adjustment on the next budget
- evaluate if there is any impact on assessments and adjust accordingly
- report at the annual meeting

I don't think anyone expects board members to be able to use a crystal ball to predict future expenses, but to make their best estimate based on history. The fact that the project was not budgeted adequately is good information for moving forward and should be preserved to help future board members make use of that history when working on their budgets.

BH

Good Strategy. Depending on budget size, $4,000 may or may not be substantial to a greater budget. Obviously, the HOA board in question is being fairly transparent in the expense overage. While I wouldn't want to see a habit made of it, it's reasonable.
TimG2 (South Carolina)
Posts: 15
Posted:
BruceH9
(North Carolina)

Posts:1

08/26/2014 4:07 PM Quote Reply
In our HOA, the best practice that we follow is to:

- leave the budget as approved
- note the overage
- evaluate repair/replacement for eligibility of reserve fund usage and use if appropriate
- evaluate if this will be recurring and require an adjustment on the next budget
- evaluate if there is any impact on assessments and adjust accordingly
- report at the annual meeting

I don't think anyone expects board members to be able to use a crystal ball to predict future expenses, but to make their best estimate based on history. The fact that the project was not budgeted adequately is good information for moving forward and should be preserved to help future board members make use of that history when working on their budgets.

BH

THANK YOU!!!
This is how we always worked, more or less. No one can predict all expenses in advance but a prospective budget is just that: what we are "projected" to spend. If we spend more, then it is to be explained rather than change the projection. I've served 9 years and have financial results from longer than that. If the current trend continues we'll spend over $4000 more than we ever have for our 97 lot community. We can raise dues 2 times the CPI-U each year, but it is supposed to be approved by a 2/3 majority of a quorum, but this never has been done. I've worked on how much it may cost to re-pave our roads since 2003 when oil was about $30/bbl. The cost of Asphalt goes in line with the cost of oil- more or less. I haven't had an issue with this since I know how much it would cost to re-pave now and have a good idea of how fast the cost is increasing.
The question was not about how much is being spent but whether it is proper to change a "PROSPECTIVE" budget mid year. I've never heard of it and wanted to know if anyone else had, and how it may have been done legitimately.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimG2

THANK YOU!!!
This is how we always worked, more or less. No one can predict all expenses in advance but a prospective budget is just that: what we are "projected" to spend. If we spend more, then it is to be explained rather than change the projection. I've served 9 years and have financial results from longer than that. If the current trend continues we'll spend over $4000 more than we ever have for our 97 lot community. We can raise dues 2 times the CPI-U each year, but it is supposed to be approved by a 2/3 majority of a quorum, but this never has been done. I've worked on how much it may cost to re-pave our roads since 2003 when oil was about $30/bbl. The cost of Asphalt goes in line with the cost of oil- more or less. I haven't had an issue with this since I know how much it would cost to re-pave now and have a good idea of how fast the cost is increasing.
The question was not about how much is being spent but whether it is proper to change a "PROSPECTIVE" budget mid year. I've never heard of it and wanted to know if anyone else had, and how it may have been done legitimately.

Back to my original response – what did the board say when you asked them about the $4000 difference - you did ask them first, didn’t you? Are roads the only thing your assessments pay for – if not, this $4K overage could be the result of other line items – did you check them? You have actual figures for 9 years – use them! If you don’t like what the board is proposing, come up with an alternative.

I understand your concern if the association has gone at least $4K over budget over the past few years, but is it possible the way you set the assessment amount is the problem? Basing it on the CPI may not be a good idea because it’s influenced by even more factors which are beyond the association’s control. You also said your budget has to be approved by a 2/3 majority of a quorum, but “this has never been done.” If you’re saying they haven’t increased at all, THAT could explain why you’re going $4K over budget every year – income simply isn’t keeping up with actual costs, and so you probably have no choice but to change the numbers as you get actual cost information.

Regarding your question as to whether it is proper to change a prospective budget mid-year – as others have said, you make your best guess based on past history. I would add projects you plan on undertaking next year. The key word here is “prospective” – if you found out in August that you won’t get a cost of living increase for 2015, wouldn’t you be looking at your household budget to see if any adjustments have to be made because your employer also said health care insurance is going up and that will affect your take home pay? Or would you wait until November?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

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