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RandaL (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I am a member of a Property Owner's Association that does not allow "For Sale" signs on unimproved lots. Our Declaration reads

"No for-sale signs should be placed on unimproved lots"

This was investment property and 80% of owners are investors that do not intend to build. This portion of the decs was installed as to protect the Developer and now that they are gone, I would like to see about getting it changed. Our dec reads:

"This Declaration may be amended or changed, in whole or in part, at any time by the written agreement or signed ballot of Owners entitled to cast not less than 2/3rds of the votes of all of the Owners. If the Declaration is amended by written instrument signed by those Owners entitled to cast not less than 2/3rds of all of the votes of the owners of the Association, such Amendment must be approved by said Owners within 365 days of the date the first Owner executes such amendment. The date an owner's signature is acknowledged shall constitute prima facia evidence of the date of execution of said amendment by such Owner. Those Members entitled to cast not less than 2/3rds of all of the votes of the Members of the Association may also vote to amend this Declaration, in person, or by proxy, at a meeting of the Members duly called for such purpose, written notice of which shall set forth the purpose of such meeting. Notwithstanding any provision contained in the By-laws t the contrar,, a quorum for purposes of such meeting, shall consist of not less than seventy percent of all of the Members (in person or by proxy) entitled to vote. Any such amendment shall become effective when an instrument is filed for record in Real Property Record of Jackson County, Texas accompanied by a certificate, signed by a majority of the Board of Trustees, stating that the required number of Members executed the instrument amending the Declaration or cast a written vote, in person or by proxy, in favor of said amendment at the meeting called for such purpose."

Sorry for the lengthy quote. My question is, as a member, can I send out proxies to vote for doing away with the "No for-sale" sign restriction and get a majority or do we have to have a meeting conducted for this?

We can force a special meeting according to our By-laws

"The President must call a special meeting if directed by resolution of a majority of a quorum of the Board of Directors or by a petition signed by 40% of the Class A Voting Members.:

I just don't know what the best way to go about changing the decs would be. The Board of Directors are not going to take the initiative to do it themselves so the issue needs to be pushed.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
RandaL,

Have you thought this through?

Suppose you amend your declaration to allow For Sale signs on the unimproved lots. Then what? A person driving through would see that 80% of the lots are unimproved and every last one of them is for sale. It would be rather apparent that this would be a buyer's dream come true as all those sellers compete against each other. You would be no better off with all those signs than you are now without them.

You say that 80% of the owners are investors that have no intent to build. My guess is that none of you are in the business of real estate investing. My own experience has been that unimproved real estate in a subdivision is seldom in high demand. Banks don't normally write loans on raw land and the commission is not high enough to get a realtor to really push for sales on unimproved lots.

I bought into a rural subdivision of parcels 36-acres and larger. It's in the middle of nowhere and most of us bought with the intention of retiring there. But after fifteen years 80% of our parcels (including my own) remain undeveloped. Many of those parcels are for sale but the reality is that undeveloped land in the middle of nowhere has not been in demand since the recession of 2008 wiped out everyone's portfolio and left them scrambling just to survive. Those who bought when the market was hot are now trying to recoup their investments even though there is no chance of that ever happening.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Larry makes some excellent points but to answer your question, you & your fellow homeowners would first need to call a special meeting for the purpose of sending out ballots to amend the Covenant.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our docs also say "no real estate signs," but our municipality trumps ours by saying they are permitted and string a size that must be adhered to. So cheek with your county or city or whatever before going further. But Larry makes a lot of sense!
BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217
Posted:
Kerry, I do not believe you are correct. In general, an association may be more restrictive but not less restrictive.

For example: a local municipality describes that fences are not in compliance with city property standards if the fence is out of vertical alignment by 12". The HOA architectural/compliance guidelines state the fence is not in compliance if the fence is out of vertical alignment by 6".

The same applies to for sale, estate sale, and garage sale signs. The city states that certain conditions must be met. The HOA states even more restrictive conditions must be met.
RandaL (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Larry,

Thank you for your reply but this land is oceanfront and not in the middle of nowhere. I don't know how I gave that impression. Although I may not be as experienced as you in purchasing real estate, the real estate investments (except for this one) I have purchased have been from driving by and seeing signs. All but this one have been very fruitful. So while I appreciate your thoughts, it did not answer my question.
RandaL (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for your reply Glen.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/19/2014 2:13 PM
Our docs also say "no real estate signs," but our municipality trumps ours by saying they are permitted and string a size that must be adhered to. So cheek with your county or city or whatever before going further. But Larry makes a lot of sense!

Kerry

I am not nor do I play a lawyer.

Typically Covenants can have tougher restrictions then a municipality and the Covenants apply as people agreed to abide by such Covenants when they bought.

Typical one is fences where the town says no fences taller then 6 ft but the Covenants say no taller then 4 ft. The Covenants stand. On the opposite end is the Covenants cannot say fences taller then 6 ft are allowed.

I believe this is the same issue as real estate signs.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Randal

You need to make a Declaration/Deed Restrictions/Covenant change to allow the signs.

The procedure for such should be in the Declaration itself. The typical steps to do so are:

1. Get change on a ballot. How to do so is in your docs.

2. Typically you will need sufficient votes (or proxies) to obtain a quorum (which is usually 66% or more of all owners) for a vote to be held. If no quorum, then no ballot.

3. You will then vote on the amendment. It typically will take 51% of those in attendance to approve. In some cases it could take more. I have seen as high as 90% having to approve.

After all I have said, the method and procedures are not the same everywhere. Your specific docs will cover the proper procedure.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Randa you might also take a look at the TX HOA statutes to see if they might have legislatively lowered the requirements either to call a special meeting or to amend the Covenants.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/SOTWDocs/PR/htm/PR.209.htm

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RandaL (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you for your reply. This helps a lot.
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/19/2014 2:13 PM
Our docs also say "no real estate signs," but our municipality trumps ours by saying they are permitted and string a size that must be adhered to. So cheek with your county or city or whatever before going further. But Larry makes a lot of sense!

Not sure where you picked that up.

HOA covenants are not trumped by such city ordinances.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RwT on 08/22/2014 12:19 PM

Posted By KerryL1 on 08/19/2014 2:13 PM
Our docs also say "no real estate signs," but our municipality trumps ours by saying they are permitted and string a size that must be adhered to. So cheek with your county or city or whatever before going further. But Larry makes a lot of sense!

Not sure where you picked that up.

HOA covenants are not trumped by such city ordinances.

That would depend on how the local ordinance is worded. Arizona, for example, has a statute that prohibits HOA's from enforcing covenants prohibiting For Sale signs. A city could enact a similar ordinance.

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