Did not receive HOA restrictions before or when we bought house, now they come after us.

Loll's they placed a letter in your mail Box? Dude unless it was stamped and delivered VIA the Postal person. they've committed a felony via postal fraud. your mail box is for mail not neighborhood committee pandering's. Contact your local mail carrier and report this abuse and then sue the shit out of that HOA. they can only place it on your door or hand it onto you personally not via a mailbox unstamped and undelivered. dude try this, go to their mail box and bash the crap out of it and see what happens. your screwed even barely damaging government property, your mail box is not yours it's the USPS property.

In a perfect world, the seller would tell you, but unless there's some sort of law requiring disclosure, I don't know if there's much you can do. Going after the HOA for sticking something in the mailbox that isn't actual mail won't really get to the heart of your problem. You could try going after the previous owner, but it's one thing to sue someone and another to win and collect. You may want to talk to an attorney to see what your best option would be.

But before you rush off and sue the hell out of the HOA (interesting how people resort to that first before even trying to talk things out - no wonder people are incapable of behaving in a civil manner these days), try talking to your neighbors and find out when the board meetings are and if there's a property manager. Go to the meeting, explain your situation and see if you can come to some sort of compromise. Also keep in mind the HOA may have this rule because the area you now live in has similar restrictions and so the CCRs mirror local law. If it's a CCR, a certain percentage of owners have to agree to amend or drop it - the board can't change the rules on its own. If it's a local law, you have a bigger battle on your hands.

You can also use this opportunity to educate people about the chickens and the pig, perhaps explaining what you've done and are willing to do to minimize noise, smell, etc. Offering a few eggs from time to time might also help smooth things over - don't laugh, this is how some people got their neighbors to come around! Don't forget to read the rest of the regulations to see if there's anything else that may present a problem for your lifestyle.

Unfortunately, lack of disclosure is where many problems begin with people and HOAs. Most of the time sellers don't mention the HOA (possibly because if they did, people wouldn't buy the house because they don't want to live in one!) The realtor doesn't say anything because he/she either doesn't understand what a HOA is and/or more interested in the commission. A few will downplay it - "uh, yeah, there's a HOA and you have to pay X a year" and leave it at that. The first people hear of what HOA living really means may be at closing - when you really can't back out at that point. If you're not familiar with HOAs, you may not know to ask whether it's voluntary or mandatory (where you automatically become a member when you buy the house and you can't opt out), how much are the fees, what they pay for, what are the community rules, and so on. HOA living really isn't for everyone - not so much because of the "HOA Nazis" the press likes to talk about, but because people don't realize that living in one means they agree to comply with certain community rules and most folks don't like to be told what to do with their property.

I hope things work out for you!

DeeDee,

Oklahoma appears to not have any HOA laws. Therefore, contract law would likely be the driving statute along with (if your association is incorporated) corporate laws.

Without disclosure laws, it's up to you (the buyer) to become aware of what restrictions are attached to your deed. They are available from the local records office. The deed restrictions (also known as Covenants or CC&Rs) is a contract between all owners that have the same restrictions attached to their deeds. An Association is typically formed to administer the contract and provide specific amenities and services.

The good thing is that you now have a copy of the restrictions. Now you need to comply with them.

Failure to comply can result in monetary penalties (fines), legal challenges, perhaps a lien on your property and, worst case, foreclosure of the lien.

Now, as James correctly pointed out, placing things other than mail into your mailbox is considered a federal offense. However, as you pointed out, you have no idea who actually placed the restrictions in your mailbox. Therefore, I agree with Jon, that pursuing any action (contacting inspectors,etc.) concerning this offense will likely be a waste of time. Especially since it won't do a thing to address the issue of you being in violation of your deed restrictions.

For a complete set of governing documents, send a letter to the place you send your assessment payments and ask for a copy. You may need to pay an amount to receive a copy. However, it's best that you have a set of the governing documents that you can refer to in the future.

Tim

The 'Declaration of Protective Covenants and Restrictions' is recorded (like your deed) at the county seat. Usually there is a 'Register of Deeds' as the person in charge.

Your deed (for which you actually signed) references something like: 'including and subject to all restrictions and easements of record', it also may, or may not, indicate page and book numbers of said items.

You DID sign, albeit without fully understanding, and are now LEGALLY BOUND to the restrictions actually on file.

I recommend that you get FROM THE REGISTER a certified copy o9f said restrictions (commonly called CCRs).

Read them THOUROUGHLY until you UNDERSTAND them.

In no event ignore the HOA, as they WILL have authority over your actions.

If you believe the HOA's actions are improper you may have recourse in a court of law.

However, the CCRs ARE the contract which you voluntarily (no force was used) signed, and THAT is what now governs your property. ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY

This is NOT what you wanted to hear.

Yes, the constitution of the USA guarantees you the right to contractually sign away your property rights.

Check to see if any 'rules' are actually based a section of the covenants.

Check to see if any restrictions are actually in the covenants.

GOOD LUCK and CAVEAT EMPTOR NEXT TIME

The CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation are considered PUBLIC documents. They are NOT the responsibility of anyone involved in the sale of the home because they are PUBLIC. It is viewed as the "Buyer's responsibility to be informed". With that said, a few states do require HOA documents be handed over by the SELLER to the buyer by or at closing. Not every state this is required.

Most people never find out about this detail until after they bought into a HOA. This isn't the first time this issue has come up. It is a problem. It is one I do agree that we need to have laws passed state wise to make someone responsible for handing over certain documents. In the meantime, you can't plead "ignorance" to a HOA. You still are on the hook and responsible for paying your HOA dues.

Keep in mind you are NOT a HOA member until you are the OWNER of the home. You can't expect the HOA to hand over their documents to you. Some of the better run HOA's do have full disclosure or have brochures. We used to have a brochure detailing the basics in our HOA. The seller is to provide the rules but not necessarily the financials of the HOA.

The Real Estate agent is NOT responsible for providing information. They should have access to the documents at the court house like everyone else. A good agent would have informed you of this information if not tell you where to get it. That's why I always use a Buyer's agent when purchasing.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

In general, I agree with your statement. The previous post was nonsense.

However, it is true that it is illegal to place anything into a mail box for which postage has not been paid. But, no one will go to jail for it and it's unlikely the postal service will bother with a single incident.

Title 18 U.S.C. Section 1725 states:

"Whoever knowingly and willfully deposits any mailable matter such as statements of accounts, circulars, sale bills, or other like matter, on which no postage has been paid, in any letter box established, approved, or accepted by the Postal Service for the receipt or delivery of mail matter on any mail route with intent to avoid payment of lawful postage thereon, shall for each such offense be fined under this title."

And, from the Domestic Mail Manual:

"3.1.3 Use for Mail - Except under 3.2.11, the receptacles described in 3.1.1 may be used only for matter bearing postage. Other than as permitted by 3.2.10, or 3.2.11, no part of a mail receptacle may be used to deliver any matter not bearing postage, including items or matter placed upon, supported by, attached to, hung from, or inserted into a mail receptacle. Any mailable matter not bearing postage and found as described above is subject to the same postage as would be paid if it were carried by mail."

Typically, though, all the post office will do if they can identify the offender is require them to pay the postage.

I remember reading several years ago about a local Scout Troop that had placed flyers into people's mail boxes. The post office sent a bill for the postage to the troop. Also, according to an article in the October 12, 2011 issue of "The Consumerist" (and as reported on WFSB) a Connecticut family was sent a bill for postage due from the local post office for putting Halloween block party invitations in people's mailboxes.

So, I guess that means that as long as you put a stamp on it first, you're OK.

They are PUBLIC documents recorded at the county seat along with the DEED.

Surely you would actually READ the deed before you signed for and accepted it ?

When you saw the wording about recorded restrictions would you not want to see them BEFORE signing ?

Did they not teach you for YEARS and YEARS in school to read a document BEFORE you signed ?

Also found this Also,"" note that the law it also states, “No lien may be placed or mortgage foreclosed unless the homeowner was informed in writing …. This means that the HOA needs to have paperwork signed by the homeowner at the time of closing and kept on file to document it""

no it was not directed at you.

I also fully agree. California has safeguards in place as well.

DeeDee,

Per your own posting, you were informed that their was a homeowners association when you purchased the property. Per you own posting, you have received a printed copy of the governing documents (the ones placed in your mailbox).

Hence, you have now been informed and can no longer claim that your never got anything in writing about the restrictions and rules.

Fred I agree with you, it's amazing that at least in Ohio, if you buy a car you have to sign a paper that states if it isn't in the sales contract, then consider what the salesman said, so much hot air. But buy a home costing who knows how much and people will take the word of the realtor or the seller as gospel.

BTW I like how FL does it for HOA's:

720.401 Prospective purchasers subject to association membership requirement; disclosure required; covenants; assessments; contract cancellation.—
(1)(a) A prospective parcel owner in a community must be presented a disclosure summary before executing the contract for sale. The disclosure summary must be in a form substantially similar to the following form:

DISCLOSURE SUMMARY
FOR
(NAME OF COMMUNITY)

1. AS A PURCHASER OF PROPERTY IN THIS COMMUNITY, YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED TO BE A MEMBER OF A HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION.

2. THERE HAVE BEEN OR WILL BE RECORDED RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS GOVERNING THE USE AND OCCUPANCY OF PROPERTIES IN THIS COMMUNITY.

3. YOU WILL BE OBLIGATED TO PAY ASSESSMENTS TO THE ASSOCIATION. ASSESSMENTS MAY BE SUBJECT TO PERIODIC CHANGE. IF APPLICABLE, THE CURRENT AMOUNT IS $ PER . YOU WILL ALSO BE OBLIGATED TO PAY ANY SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS IMPOSED BY THE ASSOCIATION. SUCH SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS MAY BE SUBJECT TO CHANGE. IF APPLICABLE, THE CURRENT AMOUNT IS $ PER .

4. YOU MAY BE OBLIGATED TO PAY SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS TO THE RESPECTIVE MUNICIPALITY, COUNTY, OR SPECIAL DISTRICT. ALL ASSESSMENTS ARE SUBJECT TO PERIODIC CHANGE.

5. YOUR FAILURE TO PAY SPECIAL ASSESSMENTS OR ASSESSMENTS LEVIED BY A MANDATORY HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION COULD RESULT IN A LIEN ON YOUR PROPERTY.

6. THERE MAY BE AN OBLIGATION TO PAY RENT OR LAND USE FEES FOR RECREATIONAL OR OTHER COMMONLY USED FACILITIES AS AN OBLIGATION OF MEMBERSHIP IN THE HOMEOWNERS’ ASSOCIATION. IF APPLICABLE, THE CURRENT AMOUNT IS $ PER .

7. THE DEVELOPER MAY HAVE THE RIGHT TO AMEND THE RESTRICTIVE COVENANTS WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE ASSOCIATION MEMBERSHIP OR THE APPROVAL OF THE PARCEL OWNERS.

8. THE STATEMENTS CONTAINED IN THIS DISCLOSURE FORM ARE ONLY SUMMARY IN NATURE, AND, AS A PROSPECTIVE PURCHASER, YOU SHOULD REFER TO THE COVENANTS AND THE ASSOCIATION GOVERNING DOCUMENTS BEFORE PURCHASING PROPERTY.

9. THESE DOCUMENTS ARE EITHER MATTERS OF PUBLIC RECORD AND CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE RECORD OFFICE IN THE COUNTY WHERE THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED, OR ARE NOT RECORDED AND CAN BE OBTAINED FROM THE DEVELOPER.

DATE: PURCHASER:

PURCHASER:

The disclosure must be supplied by the developer, or by the parcel owner if the sale is by an owner that is not the developer. Any contract or agreement for sale shall refer to and incorporate the disclosure summary and shall include, in prominent language, a statement that the potential buyer should not execute the contract or agreement until they have received and read the disclosure summary required by this section.

(b) Each contract entered into for the sale of property governed by covenants subject to disclosure required by this section must contain in conspicuous type a clause that states:

IF THE DISCLOSURE SUMMARY REQUIRED BY SECTION 720.401, FLORIDA STATUTES, HAS NOT BEEN PROVIDED TO THE PROSPECTIVE PURCHASER BEFORE EXECUTING THIS CONTRACT FOR SALE, THIS CONTRACT IS VOIDABLE BY BUYER BY DELIVERING TO SELLER OR SELLER’S AGENT OR REPRESENTATIVE WRITTEN NOTICE OF THE BUYER’S INTENTION TO CANCEL WITHIN 3 DAYS AFTER RECEIPT OF THE DISCLOSURE SUMMARY OR PRIOR TO CLOSING, WHICHEVER OCCURS FIRST. ANY PURPORTED WAIVER OF THIS VOIDABILITY RIGHT HAS NO EFFECT. BUYER’S RIGHT TO VOID THIS CONTRACT SHALL TERMINATE AT CLOSING.

(c) If the disclosure summary is not provided to a prospective purchaser before the purchaser executes a contract for the sale of property governed by covenants that are subject to disclosure pursuant to this section, the purchaser may void the contract by delivering to the seller or the seller’s agent or representative written notice canceling the contract within 3 days after receipt of the disclosure summary or prior to closing, whichever occurs first. This right may not be waived by the purchaser but terminates at closing.

BEST REPLY TO DATE:

but there IS mention of deed restrictions..................................

i.e. Covenants and Restrictions / CCRs

Re: Florida disclosure



Should the buyer have NOT been informed, his right to terminate sale ends ANYWAY after closing.

IMO: Florida's provision is lipstick on the same old pig