What is an inside Dog??

Started by RobynR • 36 replies • 2149 views

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RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

We live in a community that has of course and HOA. We have 4 dogs (not by design) I rescue dogs and three have become "OURS" one we JUST inherited because my sister passed away and the care givers were going to take it to the pound. We of course took the "Puppy". Our dogs consist of two senior boxers, one 9 one 8. The two smaller dogs Poodle 3 yrs 6 lbs and the new one a Pomeranian 1 year 4 lbs.

Now the issue is we are allowed to have 3 "OUTSIDE DOGS", However our dogs ONLY go out to potty. They don't play, run, nothing, out and then in. Less than 10 minutes about 4 to 5 times a day. Well we have really NASTY neighbors on one side that says our dogs bark all the time. I am home ALL THE TIME. I know when they go out and when they don't. They do AT TIMES go to our fence (they have their own so two fences next to each other) and bark when their dogs are out. I IMMEDIATELY GET MY DOGS IF I HEAR ONE BARK OUT OF THEM. That still doesn't matter to them. They have called the police x two (nothing determined to be excessive barking) What they don't like is that when ours go out and theirs are out ALL of them run to the fences and chase each other up and down the fences. I get mine and they get theirs (however when they get theirs, the f-bomb is used quite frequently). I try really really really hard to please these people and they still aren't happy. It is now to the point where they said if they are in their yard I can not let my dogs out. WHICH I DON'T!!! JUST TO MAKE THEM HAPPY!!!

The other issue is we have 4 dogs now that the other little one is with us. Our HOA policy says we are only allowed to have 3 OUTSIDE dogs. I called Animal Control and they said if the dogs are kept primarily in the house they are INSIDE dogs and I don't need a permit (that really isn't what I cared about) I just wanted to know the difference between an INSIDE DOG AND AN OUTSIDE DOG. From what AC told me my dogs are INSIDE dogs. Sooooo, do I need to worry about the HOA Board telling us we can't have the 4th one? And can I tell the neighbors to leave us alone without any precautions???

There is a lot more to this story but I don't want to write a novel. However, they have threatened to 'KILL' my dogs per my Licensed Dog Sitter and in front of me she said she was going to 'STAB' my dog.

HELP SOMEONE I AM LOSING SLEEP AND ALL MY DOGS ARE SWEETHEARTS...THEY WOULD ONLY LICK YOU TO DEATH AND IF YOU TRIED TO BREAK IN OUR HOUSE THEY WOULD HELP YOU CARRY EVERYTHING OUT AS LONG AS YOU PLAY WITH THEM.

Thank you!!

RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

Can you get the Animal Control's definition in writing?

If so try submitting that as your reference and see what the HOA says, err umm, PROVIDES you in writing as to their definition and go from there.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

The dogs are your property.

Should someone threaten your property YOU should file an official police complaint.

IMO:

inside dog STAYS inside (including pooping)

lust like a cat

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Thank you for your opinion. That is what I am trying to do is get opinions. However, Animal Control defines an Inside Dogs as one that Primarily is Indoors...and Outside dog is one that primarily stays outside.

Here's another synopsis for you if you think that ANY animal is an Inside if it does it's business inside...would someone be able to have 50 cats because they do their business inside? Just curious, not trying to start something...LOL

RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

Pooping inside is just one person's opinion.
Don't take it so literal.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

I do have a call into the HOA so they can define an Outside Dog, because our CC&R's only specify OUTSIDE dogs, not Inside as Animal Control does.

I want to file a complaint, however, I don't want to open a can of worms. They haven't gone to the Board yet...but that doesn't mean they won't and I wonder if I should have those complaints to back me up. I am keeping a journal of when my dogs go out, for how long and if they bark. So far today they have been out 2 times and one barked 4 times/barks...the poodle.

Thank you for your thoughts on the matter.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

I think I can get it online because in NC they said if you have OUTSIDE dogs you HAVE to have a permit for them. She told me since mine ONLY go out to potty, they are INSIDE dogs and I don't need the one time permit.

Thanks for your thoughts!

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

The INTENT of the restriction was PROBABLY to limit the number of dogs an owner could have.

Let the attorneys get richer.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Robyn,

Your neighbors sound downright toxic. If it was not the dogs I am sure they would find some other issue to pick a fight over.

Your best line of defense may be to install a surveillance camera connected to a dvr. Install it on the back corner of your home so you can record what happens in your yard and along the fence. Get a camera with a microphone so you can pick up all the f-bombs and threats.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 08/08/2014 12:22 PM
Robyn,

Your neighbors sound downright toxic. If it was not the dogs I am sure they would find some other issue to pick a fight over.

Your best line of defense may be to install a surveillance camera connected to a dvr. Install it on the back corner of your home so you can record what happens in your yard and along the fence. Get a camera with a microphone so you can pick up all the f-bombs and threats.

Actually, I forgot to mention I am having Time Warner install 3 day/night cameras next week. One in the driveway, one at the front door and one that faces the fence...so great idea...thank you!!!

And they are toxic..when she is dropping the F-Bomb she is ALWAYS holding her baby while her 4 year old stands and listens. And believe me we live in a very nice neighborhood. They are yuppies that think they are better than anyone else. In fact when they had the last baby I went to their house to give them a VERY NICE baby gift and they had a note on the door for NO ONE TO KNOCK, RING THE DOOR BELL OR MAKE ANY NOISE BECAUSE THE BABY WAS SLEEPING....Are you getting me??? I use to vacuum under my son's bed so he would get use to noises. The WORLD is full of noises but they believe in their little (what they think should be perfect) world there are NO NOISES...TOO FUNNY TO ME!!!

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RwT on 08/08/2014 11:24 AM
Can you get the Animal Control's definition in writing?

If so try submitting that as your reference and see what the HOA says, err umm, PROVIDES you in writing as to their definition and go from there.

Here is what the Charlotte website says for 3 or more dogs kept outside. I don't think mine qualify for this.

Three or More Dogs or Cats- If you have three or more dogs or cats (in any combination) four months of age or older frequently kept outside, you will need a permit. The main purpose of this permit is to make sure that noise or odor caused by the animals will not interfere with a neighbor's use and peaceful enjoyment of his property. This permit cost $40.00 and is valid as long as the owner is in compliance with the terms of the permit.

Key word....FREQUENTLY

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Robyn

When you bought into the HOA did you not agree to abide by their rules?

Tough love here, but I suggest you do.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 08/08/2014 1:51 PM
Robyn

When you bought into the HOA did you not agree to abide by their rules?

Tough love here, but I suggest you do.

You are right I did....however and I no this is no excuse...when my sister died I couldn't let her dog go to the pound...even knowing it would probably get a home. My family is not close but my sister and I were. That little dog makes me think of her EVERYDAY. And I live my life very peacefully and TRY to be a good neighbor and I am very CONCIENCES OF ALL my dogs. I don't want them bothering anyone. We have a Progressive Dinner Club and when people come to my house I crate my dogs out of courtesy for others. I know not ALL people love animals as much as I do and that is why I am soooo careful as to what they do or don't do. We pick up after them EVERY time they potty we don't have to but we do just to make it a nicer environment for everyone. I don't want to hear dogs barking either or smell bad things. My dogs even go to the groomer once a month. They are on Flea Protection, Heartworm protection. In fact NONE of my animals have EVER had a flea in their lives. I have a house cleaner come EVERY OTHER week and cleans my house (I am disabled and it is hard for me). So we are just trying to live happy and healthy lives. People don't have to be so rude. If someone's pet came to me or in my yard and the owner said they were sorry I would say...hey don't worry about it, dogs are dogs and I don't forget that even when it comes to safety of children or other animals.

The neighbors on our other side have THREE children and come to the fence and pet my dogs when they are out going potty. I only let them pet them for a minute and I take them in. I won't let the dogs lick them or anything. Their mom says, hey Robyn they are fine. But I still keep them away out of courtesy.

I am by far PERFECT and I don't pretend to be, I am just telling everyone what I TRY to do and will do to keep others happy.

Thanks for all the positive comments and that NO ONE has bashed me. It makes me think that there are still a few good people out there.

Peace, Robyn

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Does the dog live primarily inside and go out for activity and relieving itself? Then it's an inside dog

Does the dog have a permanent "residence" outside where it normally eats & sleeps and only comes in on that rare bitterly-cold winter day? Then it's an outside dog

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

The INTENT of the restriction was PROBABLY to limit the number of dogs an owner could have.

Let the attorneys get richer.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 08/08/2014 3:07 PM
Does the dog live primarily inside and go out for activity and relieving itself? Then it's an inside dog

Does the dog have a permanent "residence" outside where it normally eats & sleeps and only comes in on that rare bitterly-cold winter day? Then it's an outside dog

Thank you...I agree!!! I just need the board to see it my way!!! Like I have said they ONLY go out to potty and then back in. Boxers if anyone knows about them cannot control their heating and cooling system so they cannot tolerate heat or cold....therefore they are kept inside. I even play ball and tug a war with them inside.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RobynR on 08/08/2014 12:32 PM

"Kept outside" is the key part imho

Where do the dogs spend their time when you're not home?
Where do they primarily spend their time when you are home?

"Frequently" is meaningless imho, unless you sometimes leave them outside unattended for extended periods of time, such as when you're not home. If you do that on occasion, it's still an inside dog. If you do that with such regularity that the "normal" location for the dogs to spend their time is outside, then they're outside dogs.

Interpreting "frequently" as if you let your inside dogs out 10x per day, so they're out "frequently" would be grossly incorrect. That's fully supported by their justification for the restrictions on outside dogs is the enjoyment of one's property without annoyance by the neighbor's dogs. A dog that goes outside often for short periods would not reasonably be defined as one that is KEPT outside.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Larry is 100% correct.

Nevermind the dogs, you have nasty...no, toxic (a better word as Larry said) neighbors that are threatening physical harm to your dogs. Record them, report them.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 08/08/2014 3:19 PM

Larry is 100% correct.

Nevermind the dogs, you have nasty...no, toxic (a better word as Larry said) neighbors that are threatening physical harm to your dogs. Record them, report them.

My dogs are kept INSIDE 24/7 EXCEPT the 4 or 5 times they go out to potty...for AT THE MOST 10 TO 15 MINUTES and I am being generous with that time. IF.... I leave 3 are crated and one is allowed to stay out. (My Husband calls him the "Golden Boy") because he is so perfect!! LOL And that is the one they want to "f-ING STAB" "F-ING KILL. I think because IF he barks once or twice he is loud BUT he is 70lbs and a huge BABY!! If you even raise your voice to him he shakes. ALL my dogs came from abusive situations, except the little one from my sister. But that was years ago and they are all well adjusted kind dogs. I ALWAYS consider them dogs, I know that even a
"Good" dog can turn if hurt or is hurting. I am not considering dogs that have been vicious in the past. I am considering dogs that have been good and NEVER shown their teeth or ANY aggression towards ANYTHING OR ANYONE.

You are right and I hope that the cameras catch them dropping the F-Bomb and saying the things they do because everyone I talk to they lie to about what the situation is.

They even told us the neighbors on out other side that LOVE our dogs that my good dog (Tonka) bit him. When I asked the neighbor if that was true because I was so shocked...he said NEVER has he even tried to bite him. So now they are trying to drag other neighbors into this that I am trying to keep out of. NO ONE WANTS THIS DRAMA!!!!

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Robyn

Plead a hardship case (had to adopt sister's dog) with the BOD and sign a statement in blood that you will never again have more then 3 dogs.

That said, due to your kindness, I think you might always be the one trying to beat the rules about the number of dogs.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 08/08/2014 4:32 PM
Robyn

Plead a hardship case (had to adopt sister's dog) with the BOD and sign a statement in blood that you will never again have more then 3 dogs.

That said, due to your kindness, I think you might always be the one trying to beat the rules about the number of dogs.

Sorry, no edit.

Have you been "officially" notified by the HOA that you are in violation of the 3 dog policy? Even if not, you need to separate the issues of violating the pet policy from the issue of a nasty neighbor. Blending the two issues confuses people. If separated, then it is easier to deal with each on its own merits.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

John,

I will try anything to keep my dogs. I believe that they are a commitment not "throw away items" or well for now I can have a dog. Unless you have 10 to 15 years to devote to a pet...DON'T GET ONE!!

BELIEVE me I don't want anymore pets. They are more care than my son was...LOL...with that being said...we are close to retirement age and every time we go somewhere we have to get a dog sitter. I won't board them (long story but I have had really bad experiences with boarding) Again if people know anything about boxers they don't live very long. 10 years at the most...if you are lucky maybe 11 or 12. We are on our 5th boxer and NONE of them made it past 10 yrs. I am not saying I am waiting for my seniors to die...I am just being realistic that their life span is only so long. Now the Poodle and Pom will probably live to 15 or so...my last pair did. So if these "toxic" people would just cool their jets....Tonka and Lacie (my boxers) will live a nice life to 10 which is not long since they are 8 and 9. Lacie has already had 18 tumors removed and doing great.

I have to stop ranting and tell you Lacie's story....Lacie was at a HIGH KILL SHELTER..in fact she had ONE HOUR TO LIVE. She was about 3 yrs old and had been chained up most of her life to have puppies. I volunteered for a non profit dog rescue and I had the papers the Shelter required to release her. They would only release her to a Rescue. Soooo, a girlfriend called me and told me about her and I said give me their number I will get her. She was out of my County that I lived in and I didn't have the authorization to "Pull' her but I did it anyway. I did own up to the President of our Rescue what I did and he actually was fine with it. We were suppose to ONLY get animals in our Town. Anyway, she was emaciated she had been running the streets in the winter for weeks. She had no fur on her front paws and her teeth were missing. We figured out that she put the chain against her paws to chew the chain...therefore losing her teeth. She had bronchitis, flea ridden and in heat. I took her to a friend's pet store and we bathed her with flea soap...took care of her "time of the month", got her on antibiotics and took her home. We walked in the door she saw my husband and I swear hearts fluttered out of her eyes!!! LOL...From then on out and it has been 5 years she wants to be by HIS side...not mine..the person that rescued her but HIM!!! She lays by the door if he leaves, she cries sometimes if she can't find him and lays with him every night to watch TV. And she is sooo gentle if you give her a treat. If I yell...(hahaha) at my hubs she comes over and barks at me...like don't you talk to my daddy like that. She really can't bark very well because of such a deviated septum. It's more like Goo Goo Goo talking to me. She also snores like the roof is going to come off. Her breathing is really bad. If we were rich we could get her a rhinoplasty!! So that is Lacie Girl!!!

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 08/08/2014 4:37 PM

No I have not be Officially notified by the board yet...I am just trying to get my ducks in a row so I can have all the information available to me. Everyone has really helped me think a lot of things through.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Why?
Their rules pertain to outside dogs. She has ZERO outside dogs from the sounds of it.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

What is the exact wording of your Covenant Restriction concerning pets/dogs?

If you do not have a CERTIFIED copy of the actual Covenants and Restrictions I would strongly suggest you obtain one from the register of deeds at your county seat.

Then YOU can actually read any contractual restrictions re: pets and not rely on 'hearsay'.

As for your neighbors: If they commit a crime, call law enforcement ~ after a few calls you can get an 'order of protection' ~ if they violate same THEY WILL BE ARRESTED based directly on your claim of violation.

however

consider your overall neighbors
the understood limit seems to be 3 dogs
you have 4 and are searching for a loophole, which you may have found
?perhaps you could find a good home for the 'extra'?

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 08/09/2014 9:36 AM
What is the exact wording of your Covenant Restriction concerning pets/dogs?

If you do not have a CERTIFIED copy of the actual Covenants and Restrictions I would strongly suggest you obtain one from the register of deeds at your county seat.

Then YOU can actually read any contractual restrictions re: pets and not rely on 'hearsay'.

As for your neighbors: If they commit a crime, call law enforcement ~ after a few calls you can get an 'order of protection' ~ if they violate same THEY WILL BE ARRESTED based directly on your claim of violation.

however

consider your overall neighbors
the understood limit seems to be 3 dogs
you have 4 and are searching for a loophole, which you may have found
?perhaps you could find a good home for the 'extra'?

John,

I understand that I have 4 dogs and the CCRs says 3. However, I NEVER meant to have 4 and sometimes things in life happen beyond your control. I have been keeping a journal of when my dogs go out, how long they are out and if they bark. I am going to do this for 2 weeks (just a sample if I need if for the board) That way they can see what I am trying to do. My hubs and I discussed this and we just don't understand their hatred for our dogs. So far we have been letting them out two at a time and the average time each two spend outside at a time is about 4 minutes and that is 4 times a day. For the last two days there has been a couple of barks from one or two of the dogs and I noted which one barked and how many times. (So far for two days ALL together there has been 6 barks). We have lived here for one and a half years and we tried to count how many times we have had to get them away from the fence or call them when they start to bark if the neighbors are out and we think (not exact) that it has been about 10 times. Now that is less than one time per month and I THINK I am being generous with having to get the dogs or calling them away from OUR fence because they are in their yard. Now granted we NEVER use our yard. We have a screened in patio and have dinner on it once in a while and they have put up a HUGE playground set and invite all the neighbor kids over and we have to listen to all the screaming and crying that goes on with that. If we wanted to live next to a playground we would have moved next to one. Now we LOVE children but it is annoying to us when we are trying to have a nice peaceful dinner. So is it fair that we can't say anything about all the noise from them and their children but they can complain about our dogs??? I am not trying to be hateful...I love hearing the sound of kids play, however, they are more noisy that we EVER are. We just want to coexist and for them to leave us a lone. We also have a very nice playground that the children can go and play at but they chose to put this play set NEXT to our side of the fence. They have a much bigger yard and could have put it on the other side or even in the middle of their yard but noooo it had to be next to our fence.

I do have a certified copy of the CCRs..here is what it says about animals...it is very "Grey" to me...

Nuisances:

No noxious or offensive trade or activity shall be carried on upon any Lot or shall anything be done thereon which may be or become an annoyance or nuisance to the neighborhood. No animals, livestock or poultry of any kind shall be kept or maintained on an Lot or in any dwelling except dogs, cats or other household pets maybe kept or maintained provided that they are not kept or maintained for commercial purposes. The number of household pets generally considered to be outdoor pets such as dogs and cats shall not exceed three in number except for newborn offspring of such household pets which are under 9 months in age. No dog run or pen may be constructed or maintained on any lot unless such dog run or pen has been approved in writing by the ACC. Notwithstanding the foregoing, the Association shall have the right to prohibit or require the removal of any dog or animal which after consideration of factors such as size, breed and disposition of the animal interference by the animal with the peaceful enjoyment by the owners of their lots and the security measures taken by the owner with respect to such animal the association in its sole discretion deems to be undesirable a nuisance or a safety hazard.

OK....now with that being the "written word" I challenge the words...GENERALLY. It does not say 'RESTRICTED'...So to me Generally could mean that generally you can't have more than 3 but there could be exceptions.

Like I have said my dogs are outside for a matter of 20 minutes TOTAL today for all of them. That is not an 'OUTSIDE' PET! They eat, sleep and play inside. And they should have realized that they could move next door to others with animals as well. We are seniors and realize we would have kids all around us. We have 3 on one side (that are a complete delight) and two on the other side (the problem neighbors) so we are surrounded by 5 kids all under the age of 5. And they legally are not allowed to tell you who is moving or building next to you when you buy. So we didn't know we were going to have all these kids around us. We don't mind but give us some slack too.

Anyway, I have gone on too long about this. I hope by us only letting the dogs out two at a time now and logging every time they do we will have a chance with the board and HOA Manager (which seems to understand they are being difficult to us).

Take care, Robyn

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

"The number of household pets generally considered to be outdoor pets such as dogs and cats shall not exceed three in number"

Vague at best imho.

I have cats that never step foot outside. No reasonable person would think that my cats would fall under the category of "generally considered to be outdoor pets".

If this restriction is interpreted as suggesting that an indoor dog is "generally considered to be an outdoor pet", then the same must also apply to the indoor cat, which is simply ludicrous.

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Robyn

It is my opinion you are in violation of the CC&Rs.

The language says: "The number of household pets generally considered to be outdoor pets such as dogs and cats shall not exceed three in number . . ."

The language does not make a distinction between "indoor" and "outdoor" versions of dogs and cats, it says "generally considered to be outdoor pets". This is to differentiate such pets from other pets which are purely "indoor" pets such as birds and fish.

I believe a reasonable person would define a dog as an "outdoor" pet in that it does go outside, albeit, in your case, for very brief periods of time. Regardless, it is still going "outside", or is capable of going "outside" whether it does so or not, which your pet parakeet will not.

You can possibly prevail on the merits of your argument, due to the somewhat ambiguous wording used. Another reasonable person would possibly not agree that a cat is an "outside" pet. I have known people whose cat(s) never left the house except to go to the vet.

I recommend, as someone else has suggested, you formulate a plan which includes an appeal to the BOD for an exception. It would certainly help your case if your appeal contained an action plan to reduce the number of dogs to three during some reasonable period of time. You should also prepare yourself for the possibility/probability that such an appeal will be rejected and that you will be given a short period of time, such as 30 to 60 days, to bring your property into compliance with the CC&Rs.

Please remember, your Board has to (or should) treat everyone equally. They may have just denied an appeal for another homeowner in similar circumstances. Much of what you have written, understandably, is an attempt to justify why you should be granted an exception--such as your comments about not using your yard. That has no bearing on whether or not you have more dogs than are considered acceptable under your CC&Rs. What Animal Control says about indoor or outdoor pets is generally not important in this situation: your CC&Rs can be more restrictive than municipal codes or ordinances with respect to certain subjects.

Good luck.

(I am not an attorney, nor do I dispense legal advice.)

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Bill,

See my post above yours

And remember, thus far we only have a toxic neighbor, not any issue with the board/HOA.

I would never consider either a dog or cat to be "generally considered an outside pet". That's taking a huge leap of faith in the definition.

There are outside dogs and cats that rarely, if ever, come inside.
There are inside dogs and cats that go outside from occasionally to never.
They're two completely different categories.

I'll also add my 2 cents that I find a limit on the number of dogs rather silly in and of itself. 2 dogs can be more noisy than 5 dogs. If rules are in place pertaining to the nuisance factor, then the quantity of dogs should be irrelevant.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

IMO:

the intent of the restriction is 3 dogs maximum

you are squirming to find a loophole

you are in violation

when you get the notice of violation and/or the fine you are free to pursue redress

or

comply with the contract you willingly signed

BillH10 (Texas)
Posts: 1,217

Posted:

Dave, I don't disagree with you with respect to defining her issue at this time. However, it may come to the attention of the Board or MC at some point. Remember, its not what you or I think about a pet being outdoors or indoors by definition, it is the language in her CC&Rs and the specific examples used.

RobynR (North Carolina)
Posts: 13

Posted:

WOW....this is a lot to take in and I can see every ones side. I just hope and pray that for the time being we can keep the "neighbors" at bay and this will resolve itself.

We are taking all the precautions to protect ourselves and to prove our case. We WILL be at 3 possible 2 dogs within a year or so, that of course depending on the health of my seniors. Like I said one has had 18 tumors removed but is doing OK now. Not that I am waiting for them to leave me. I will be a total mess when they do. I love each and every one of them so much. They give me so much pleasure and happiness. I really trust dogs more than people.

Anyway, we are having cameras installed on Wednesday to help with any more confrontations. I still don't know what to do about the two times they threatened my dogs with killing and stabbing. It's hard to believe that there are people like this that have two beautiful children would be so hateful towards others...and I mean us and the dogs.

I will say that if it does come to them telling us we have to get rid of one of the pets I will do what ever I can to delay that. If I have to put a For Sale sign out for a year I will. I know some of you feel I am in violation and I COULD be but I do believe the language in the CC&Rs could be challenged. I guess that will depend on how much we are willing to give a lawyer. My pets are commitments for LIFE...not for just now or until some excuse comes up that I would need to re home one. I have heard ALL THE EXCUSES IN THE WORLD why people can't keep their pets...including "it doesn't match our furniture". And if I have to Rehome one of them it will be temporary until I can get her back. She is my family. I have no other family...everyone is dead and these dogs are all I have besides my husband. I have a son that lives in MD and I don't get to see him that often. Sorry don't mean to give a sob story and I know it has no relevance on my case....I am just speaking from my heart. I also think every thing should be on a case by case basis.

Well, I do APPRECIATE all your opinions again...I have been looking for opinions and I have a lot to think about.

However, I do want to say that we do have a neighbor with a bird (some kind of big bird) and it is outside A LOT making noises. So birds can go outside as well. Her wings are clipped but that thing squeals all the time and it is annoying at times. But I don't really care it isn't 24/7 and I think it is nice they let it have some fresh air. I am not a bird "inside" person...I LOVE them outside but to each own.

Thanks everyone...if anything develops from this I will definitely post what happens.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Sorry to hear about the old pups Robyn. It sucks losing a furry family member.

What hasn't been addressed really is a change to the rules. There is most certainly a process by which a resident can propose changes to your rules & regulations. Depending on your neighborhood size, it might be easy to get enough support for a change. Especially when you point out that the current rules are vague on the topic. (just find the crazy cat-ladies and point out that they could be in violation if someone reads the rules from the wrong perspective ;) )

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DaveD3 on 08/12/2014 5:26 AM
Sorry to hear about the old pups Robyn. It sucks losing a furry family member.

What hasn't been addressed really is a change to the rules. There is most certainly a process by which a resident can propose changes to your rules & regulations. Depending on your neighborhood size, it might be easy to get enough support for a change. Especially when you point out that the current rules are vague on the topic. (just find the crazy cat-ladies and point out that they could be in violation if someone reads the rules from the wrong perspective ;) )

What sound advice. Letting the crazy old cat ladies decide......LOL

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

We are NOT dealing with rules and regulations !

We are dealing with recorded deed restrictions !

A/K/A: CCRs

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 08/12/2014 2:03 PM
We are NOT dealing with rules and regulations !

We are dealing with recorded deed restrictions !

A/K/A: CCRs

Does it matter?
Both are legally binding. Both can be altered via the appropriate process.

RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

Yes it matters.

BOD R&Rs are easily amended with no owner/member input required.

In some cases...BOD created R&Rs MAY exceed the extent of their authority.
If / When tested they may also be found to be unreasonable.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.

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