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NatalieF1 (Virginia)
Posts: 40
Posted:
This is an update to my earlier post. After two board members were asked to resign after an altercation in the neighborhood over a sign but neither would, the remaining three BOD members resigned.This did not leave enough BOD members to conduct business. The membership has now been notified of an upcoming election to elect all 5 new Board members. What is the best way to go about getting enough interest to get more people to run for the board so that we can have a fresh start and get our community back on track?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Knock on doors and explain the issue/answer questions.

Explain the issue in a newsletter sent to all members.

Solicit proxies.

Invite specific individuals to run (face to face).
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
And don't forget to tell the members what might happen if no one steps up: without a board, the Association would have to file for receivership, where a court would appoint someone to run the Association's affairs. The receiver only answers to the court, not the members - meaning the members would have NO SAY in how the community is run. Receivers are primarily concerned with getting the bills paid, so expect your assessments to go up A LOT to pay the bills, the court costs and the receiver's fees (which can start at $250 a day, depending on your area.)

Without a board, the members are also setting themselves up to becoming PERSONALLY liable for any accidents that occur on association-owned property or lawsuits against the association for whatever reason because there's no board to oversee Association operations.

Your homeowners have a choice - do the recall and put new QUALIFIED people on the board to begin cleaning things up (if they don't know the ins and outs of running a homeowners association, they need to be willing to find out by attending seminars, talking to other HOAs, etc.) or do nothing and pay through the nose (THAT'LL be great for property values!) You'll soon see who's willing to put or shut up - and I hope you're thinking about running. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/28/2014 9:56 AM
Without a board, the members are also setting themselves up to becoming PERSONALLY liable for any accidents that occur on association-owned property or lawsuits against the association for whatever reason because there's no board to oversee Association operations.

What makes you think this?

Liability policies insure the Association (which is all the homeowners and normally is also a corporation); not the board. The homeowners would have the same protection as the stockholders of a stock corporation would.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
The association doesn't run itself - that's why you have a board of directors. If there's no board, who hires the contractors, signs contracts, sets up budgets and all that stuff? And no, the property manager doesn't count - he or she also takes direction from the Board and can't do anything without the board's authorization (yes I know some have done otherwise and caused a lot of problems - another you need a board for necessary checks and balances!) I'm also sure there's some fine print buried somewhere in those liability policies that kicks out claims if there is no Board.

To wit - last year, our association finally got rid of our swimming pool after 3 years of it being closed, thus becoming an eyesore and it was too expensive to operate anyway. We hired a contractor who began digging up the pool but for some reason, thought he could do an end run around us and the county health department by not getting a permit - contrary to what he wrote in the contract! The health department stopped the work and we were facing a very stiff fine for this nonsense (the man actually said we didn't need a permit until after the job was completed). We fired him and got someone else to finish the job.

This bozo then came back and tried to charge us for the work, first by trying to file a lien against the association and when our attorney got involved, he then threatened to file a lien against EVERY townhouse in our community to get paid. Our attorney got nastier, threatening a countersuit, noting the health department was aware of his shenanigans (they said the guy had tried this before with other customers). He backed down, removed the lien against the association and only got paid for digging up the pool - we were going to ask for a refund of the one day's fine we had to pay, but at that point, we wanted the thing over with.

We've put a few procedures in place to ensure this won't happen again, but the part that really concerned me and got me angry was the notion that the guy would lien everyone's home, including mine. And if that had happened, our liability insurance wouldn't help us because, as our attorney also pointed out, we have language in the policy stating repairs have to be done to code (meaning if a permit is required, that's what we're supposed to get).


If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/28/2014 10:25 AM
This bozo then came back and tried to charge us for the work, first by trying to file a lien against the association and when our attorney got involved, he then threatened to file a lien against EVERY townhouse in our community to get paid. Our attorney got nastier, threatening a countersuit, noting the health department was aware of his shenanigans (they said the guy had tried this before with other customers). He backed down, removed the lien against the association and only got paid for digging up the pool - we were going to ask for a refund of the one day's fine we had to pay, but at that point, we wanted the thing over with.

That's not the same as liability for personal injury which is covered by liability insurance issued to the association.

The homeowners are liable for debts incurred by the association (which is why those debts are paid from by either regular or special assessments). If a court rules that the association (which is the homeowners) are liable for a debt, they must pay the judgement. It doesn't matter whether there is a board or not. Liability insurance doesn't cover debts that are incurred.

That's why I asked where you got the idea that (to quote from your post): "Without a board, the members are also setting themselves up to becoming PERSONALLY liable for any accidents that occur on association-owned property or lawsuits against the association for whatever reason because there's no board to oversee Association operations."

Liability for personal injury and indebtedness for work performed are not the same. One is covered by insurance, the other is not. If there is no insurance, then the homeowners would be liable for personal injury whether or not there is a board.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
And what happens if the insurance which is supposed to cover all the things you mention doesn't get paid because THERE IS NO BOARD TO AUTHORIZE EXPENSES SUCH AS INSURANCE PREMIUMS??? Methinks it gets cancelled and then what?

Or

There is insurance, but for whatever reason the payout isn't enough to cover a judgment - where will the rest of the money come from? A special assessment usually. But wait, the CCRs/Bylaws require the Board to call a meeting where homeowners can discuss the matter and take a vote on whether or not to have a special assessment.

There ain't no board and no homeowner will step up and call a special meeting (which requires a petition of, say 10?% of the homeowners). Who do they give the petition to?

If there's a meeting and the homeowners vote no on the special assessment, then what? The association could declare bankruptcy, I guess, but you need someone to spearhead that too - nope, can't look at the property manager.

This entire conversation started because 3 out of five board members resigned and it appears the two who are left are people no one wants on the board, so there needs to be an election to replace everyone. Go ahead and try to run a HOA without a board if you want to - from what I've seen and been told, things are a little easier when you have a few cooks in the kitchen.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
The board had 5 people, 3 of them resigned
Now an election is being held to re-elect all 5?

Who is calling for and running the election?
Do the remaining 2 board members not have the authority to appoint people to the board to complete the terms of those who resigned?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By NatalieF1 on 07/27/2014 12:12 PM
This is an update to my earlier post. After two board members were asked to resign after an altercation in the neighborhood over a sign but neither would, the remaining three BOD members resigned.This did not leave enough BOD members to conduct business. The membership has now been notified of an upcoming election to elect all 5 new Board members. What is the best way to go about getting enough interest to get more people to run for the board so that we can have a fresh start and get our community back on track?

Natalie

If there is still at least one person on the BOD (you say two left) then they can appoint people to fill the 3 vacancies. Why would there be an election to fill all 5 spots when two are filled?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 07/28/2014 8:32 PM
And what happens if the insurance which is supposed to cover all the things you mention doesn't get paid because THERE IS NO BOARD TO AUTHORIZE EXPENSES SUCH AS INSURANCE PREMIUMS??? Methinks it gets cancelled and then what?

Or

There is insurance, but for whatever reason the payout isn't enough to cover a judgment - where will the rest of the money come from? A special assessment usually. But wait, the CCRs/Bylaws require the Board to call a meeting where homeowners can discuss the matter and take a vote on whether or not to have a special assessment.

There ain't no board and no homeowner will step up and call a special meeting (which requires a petition of, say 10?% of the homeowners). Who do they give the petition to?

If there's a meeting and the homeowners vote no on the special assessment, then what? The association could declare bankruptcy, I guess, but you need someone to spearhead that too - nope, can't look at the property manager.

This entire conversation started because 3 out of five board members resigned and it appears the two who are left are people no one wants on the board, so there needs to be an election to replace everyone. Go ahead and try to run a HOA without a board if you want to - from what I've seen and been told, things are a little easier when you have a few cooks in the kitchen.

I'm glad our HOA is set up to run more smoothly than that.

Once the board adopts a budget and the homeowners have voted on it, the annual amount for insurance premiums is established. It has already been authorized so the property manager can continue to make premium payments without further board approval until the next budget is established. So, if in the meantime the board resigns, the premiums can still be paid. The payments (including future payments) have already been authorized by the board in existence at the time. Our board doesn't have to vote every month to authorize payments for items that are already in the approved budget for the year. That would be a waste of time.

If there is a judgement that exceeds an insurance payout, or there is no insurance, the money still has to come from the homeowners whether there is a board and an assessment or not. The court would simply rule that each homeowner would have to pay a share. I don't see any difference. Either way, each homeowner pays.
NatalieF1 (Virginia)
Posts: 40
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 07/29/2014 3:13 AM
The board had 5 people, 3 of them resigned
Now an election is being held to re-elect all 5?

Who is calling for and running the election?
Do the remaining 2 board members not have the authority to appoint people to the board to complete the terms of those who resigned?

My understanding is it was recommended,(possibly the assoc. attorney)because of the remaining two members behavior and discourse that an election for all 5 positions take place. The two current remaining board members could choose to run again. I am not sure they would agree on appointments!
ValerieS2 (Michigan)
Posts: 244
Posted:
Three people quitting does not negate the authority (or the remainder of the term they were elected to)of the remaining two board members.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ValerieS2 on 07/31/2014 12:59 PM
Three people quitting does not negate the authority (or the remainder of the term they were elected to)of the remaining two board members.


I agree. I think Natalie's supporters could be in for a rude/legal awakening.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Natalie,

Per VA corporate law (which is typically applicable to Associations in VA), specifically ยง 13.1-862, unless your Articles of Incorporation specify otherwise, the remaining board members could actually appoint others to fill the vacant seats for the remainder of the term.

Additionally, unless the terms of the remaining board members are ending, they don't have to step down. They may step down on their own but they would not be required to unless recalled.

NatalieF1 (Virginia)
Posts: 40
Posted:
I agree Tim. It would be my understanding that they have agreed to the election of all five positions as that is what was stated in the special meeting notice to the members.

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