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KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:

We are a Board of seven in a 200+ high rise HOA. We hold an executive session before our monthly open meetings, which is permitted in CA. We strictly follow CA Open Meeting Act legislation about what may be discussed in same.

For the past many months, our executive sessions (ES) have gradually become more & more hostile. Various directors take verbal potshots at others, there's bickering over minor points, there's a lot of interrupting, and agenda items have been included about petty matters such as one director being rude to another outside of a meeting, but not in front of homeowners (H/Os).

A few weeks ago, an H/O asked a director how directors get along in executive session and "Nick" replied that there's a great deal of dissension; the ES meetings are completely out of control. The H/O wrote the Board a letter stating what she'd heard, without identifying Nick, and expressed her view that such dissension is bad for our HOA. We should get our act together. The letter was given to us directors at our most recent ES.

At that same meeting last week, the newish president compiled & read comments from us directors that she'd requested about positive ways we can improve our meetings. She is trying very hard to fix this mess that is the legacy of a previous prez.

The president asked who'd told the H/O about the general content of our ES behavior. Nick iidentified himself. Some directors argue that Nick never should have revealed the toxic atmosphere in our ESs to a non-director. Nick & others argue that Nick has a right to express his "opinion" to H/Os.

What do you think? Are ALL aspects of ES confidential? Or only agenda items, the content of discussion/debate, how directors voted.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Kerry,

Yes, all discussions of an executive session should be confidential (However, CA requires that the agenda be included with the notice of the meeting and the membership be notified of ES). This is why there a limited topics that may be discussed in them. That said, replying to the question of how boards get along I don't think is a violation of that confidentiality.

If you want to minimize the bickering, quit holding executive sessions except for hearings, payment and litigation issues. Discuss everything else in the open.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
As I wrote, Tim, all ESs are held ONLY about matters that CA's strict Davis-Stirling legislation permits. We also certainly post the general ES agenda 2 days shad of the ES meetings.

The agenda items about alleged director misconduct is a legit topic in ES as it falls under the general topic of "personnel matters" according to the COO & President of our MC.

We did, I think, get rid of these petty director-conduct types of agenda items at our last ES with our lists of ways to improve meetings.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Kerry,

I think you misunderstood me. I was saying that, even though statutes allow executive sessions for specific issues, there is no requirement (as the Board has the option) that all of those issues be discussed in executive session.

Therefore, place further restrictions on what will (vs. what can) be discussed in E.S. Discuss a Directors conduct in an open meeting. Discuss contracts in an open meeting. Heck, unless the individual is in attendance, we discuss delinquent accounts in open sessions (we never identify the unit/lot or the member - only refer to the account, as we have one account who is over 120 days delinquent. . .).

If your meetings are attended by non-board members, you very well could see the bickering lessen.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Nick did the right thing. A homeowner asked a question and Nick answered truthfully. Nick did not put up a billboard about the directors' behavior and he did not lie when asked about. He did nothing wrong. It was the rest of the directors who hid behind closed doors to hiss at each other who did wrong.

I strongly disagree that personal disagreements among board members is a personnel matter. Personal does not equal personnel. Using the faulty logic that a disagreement among directors justifies an executive session, all business could be transacted in a closed meeting because not all directors may agree with one another.
EricH8 (Virginia)
Posts: 116
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 07/26/2014 3:47 PM

Are ALL aspects of ES confidential?

Nope.
Davis-Stirling Act
4935 Executive Session...
(e) Any matter discussed in executive session shall be generally noted in the minutes of the immediately following meeting that is open to the entire membership.


Where I get confused is what if the board would like to remove a director for bad behavior, but only the the homeowners, can recall a director. The board would have to state the alleged offense in order to make the case to the homeowners for a recall. Such a situation occurred at my HOA where the board came out of an executive session and declared a director was off the board but wouldn't say why due to "privacy and confidentiality". That explanation didn't fly with the homeowners and the director remained a director.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our board certainly notes the general topics in our ESs.

Specifics about particular directors was not my question, Eric. More, in CA, directors may not be removed form the Board by directors unless pointed by directors. Otherwise, they must be removed by a vote of the H/O's. But that i not the topic.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
According to Merriam-Webster.com, "personnel" means "a body of persons usually employed (as in a factory or organization)."

Directors are not employees; directors represent the owners and directors hire the employees, also known as personnel. Therefore, you cannot justify an executive session by calling it a "personnel matter" when the purpose is for the directors to criticize one another.

Going back to the original question, Nick acted correctly in disclosing what the rest of the directors were doing in the executive session. Nick was not wrong; those directors who sought to hide behind closed doors were wrong. Nick has no duty to hide what the law requires to be done in the open.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Kerry as I understand your post, "Nick" didn't reveal what was discussed but rather the tone in which it was discussed which IMHO did not violate any confidential information. If directors don't want it known that they act like asses in ES, then they should stop acting like asses.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 07/27/2014 5:31 AM

If directors don't want it known that they act like asses in ES, then they should stop acting like asses.

Well said, Glen.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks for your replies.

I'm one of the directors who thought "Nick" stepped over the line. My reason is that as fiduciaries, we're held to a higher standard of behavior than other homeowners. To me, gossiping about the comportment of directors in ES does our HOA no good whatsoever. Our job, imo, is to work in the best interests of our HOA as a whole. Nick blabbing to a newer H/O, who happens to be a real estate attorney ,was only to make himself look "knowledgeable," or "in the know."

We often deal with contracts in formation in open meetings. We also announce the number of delinquencies, whether they're on payment plans, etc., and vote to lien units in open meetings.

Our last ES meeting when we discussed our list of suggested improvements should help a lot because the petty agenda items about alleged director misbehavior will rarely occur from now on.

Thank all of you again for your replies. I'd actually hoped for different voices too, but . . .

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