We may have people dealing and/or using illegal drugs.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

We are a 43 unit apt style senior condominium in NE.
A man in one unit has many different people coming and going. The lady who lives next to him has seen suspicious activity. He has no teeth which I understand could be an indication of drug use.

When a man from our property management company was with our pest control person there was a strong smell of pot in one unit. These are two separate units.

Basically the police have told us the only think we could do is to call them if we smell the pot, but since I don't know what pot smells like I hesitate to call the police. I have smelled what I thought might be pot.
I was also told that the only thing the police could do was knock on the door and unless they saw something suspicious even they could not do anything.

So much for living in a drug free senior community.

Have any of you had to deal with this type of problem?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Basically the police have told us the only think we could do is to call them if we smell the pot, but since I don't know what pot smells like I hesitate to call the police.

Marijuana has a very distinctive odor much like a haystack burning. I find it very different from the smell of tobacco smoke.

I had an employee once whom I suspected of using crack cocaine in a building that was temporarily empty. My first clue that something was going on was that all the windows were wide open even though it was a cold and rainy day. He was clearly trying to conceal the odors of his activity. The irony is that all that I know about crack I learned from TV and the one thing you cannot learn from TV is what something smells like. Had the employee left the windows closed I would not have been suspicious because I had no idea what crack smells like when smoked.

Quote:

Have any of you had to deal with this type of problem?

About 25 years ago I lived in an apartment complex where I suspected that the tenants of one unit were dealing drugs. The first sign was people who would show up at all hours of the day or night and stay for just a few minutes. The final sign was the dead body of the female who lived there surrounded by evidence of cocaine dealing. She died from a shotgun blast to the head. Of course all the others who lived there claimed they were gone when it happened so she must have shot herself.

I do not think you will get much help from the police without better evidence. A private security company may be able to provide you with operatives who can recognize the odors and maybe even keep a log with video survaillence to document who is coming and going and how long they are staying. That evidence alone may give you cause to evict these people from the premises, which should be your first priority.

The toothless guy may be a methamphetamine user. Meth rots teeth and users often look far older than their actual age. Worse than meth usage is the possibility that they are cooking meth in one of your units. It is not likely but if they are you have a genuine hazmat disaster on your hands. This is another reason to seek out the active assistance of a private security firm.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

How sad that in America someone can be completely thrown under a bus without any proof of "illegal activity". You are spreading malicious rumors without any evidence. You know nothing about these people do you? Yet you are on this public forum accusing someone of illegal activity?

Your in a senior community? Perhaps this person is suffering from an illness that requires several people to come in and help in like my grandparents did. Maybe they have no teeth because they are SENIORS?????????????

And just maybe they are fighting an illness like cancer and they are using pot like so many others do when dealing with chemo etc.

It is just plain sick how "neighbors" will assume so much on so little. Shame on you and the people in your community who feel it is their right to go around and spread RUMORS. And how dare you ask this forum or anyone else when your accusation is without proof or evidence.

Maybe you should be a nice neighbor and go knock on their door and offer some assistance.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Law Enforcement has responded to your 'complaint'.

Now you should simply MYOB.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CyrstalB on 07/19/2014 4:27 AM
How sad that in America someone can be completely thrown under a bus without any proof of "illegal activity". You are spreading malicious rumors without any evidence. You know nothing about these people do you? Yet you are on this public forum accusing someone of illegal activity?

Your in a senior community? Perhaps this person is suffering from an illness that requires several people to come in and help in like my grandparents did. Maybe they have no teeth because they are SENIORS?????????????

And just maybe they are fighting an illness like cancer and they are using pot like so many others do when dealing with chemo etc.

It is just plain sick how "neighbors" will assume so much on so little. Shame on you and the people in your community who feel it is their right to go around and spread RUMORS. And how dare you ask this forum or anyone else when your accusation is without proof or evidence.

Maybe you should be a nice neighbor and go knock on their door and offer some assistance.

I was speaking of two different units. One on the third floor with a resident who is legally here and another on the second floor who according to the owner (this young man's father) his son his not living here. But I live next door and I know the young man is indeed living in the unit. We just think he may be using pot and at least not dealing drugs from the unit. The one on the third floor has many different visitors coming and going at all hours. I believe another poster also mentioned this as possible evidence of drug dealing.

I am not in favor of a security service for the following reasons:
If something happened to someone we could be sued because the security did not do the job
I and an uncle who was shot dead working security
I know of a man who had a prison record for rape who worked security.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Bonnie,

The police can arrange a demo/presentation to identify how to identify and deal with illegal drugs.

Contact their community outreach department to see what programs they can offer.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Do you have a nuisance rules in your covenants odd Rules that prohibit noxious odors? Are there certain residents who truly are troubled by these odors??

Do you have covenants or a rules against a unit having frequent short-term visitors?? If they are not braking any of your rules, is there an HOA problem?

If neither, I'm totally with Chrystal & John B. MYOB.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Personally, I would already have sued your (farm animal) off !

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CyrstalB on 07/19/2014 4:27 AM
How sad that in America someone can be completely thrown under a bus without any proof of "illegal activity". You are spreading malicious rumors without any evidence. You know nothing about these people do you? Yet you are on this public forum accusing someone of illegal activity?

Your in a senior community? Perhaps this person is suffering from an illness that requires several people to come in and help in like my grandparents did. Maybe they have no teeth because they are SENIORS?????????????

And just maybe they are fighting an illness like cancer and they are using pot like so many others do when dealing with chemo etc.

It is just plain sick how "neighbors" will assume so much on so little. Shame on you and the people in your community who feel it is their right to go around and spread RUMORS. And how dare you ask this forum or anyone else when your accusation is without proof or evidence.

Maybe you should be a nice neighbor and go knock on their door and offer some assistance.

The problem with knocking on the door of one unit is that according to the owner, no one is in the unit. The owner has lost a court case and keeps insisting that he won. That is another story for another time.
One reason I asked this forum is for help in getting proof which Tim has given to me.

A couple of weeks ago one woman knocked on my door and wanted to use my phone to call someone to pick her up. I asked her why she did not use the phone of the person she was visiting. She said because he has my purse and won't give it to me. My car keys are in it and I need them to get home. The man (who has the many visitors) who had her person never answered the door or the phone. I told her we needed to call the police and she said "I don't want the police involved." I think she went to the Care Center to call someone to come and get her.
I don't know about you, but if someone had my belongings and would not give them to me, I would want the police involved.

When someone knocks on my door for assistance then this becomes my business.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/19/2014 12:55 PM
Bonnie,

The police can arrange a demo/presentation to identify how to identify and deal with illegal drugs.

Contact their community outreach department to see what programs they can offer.

Thanks Tim. This is a great help. It appears that some people on this site don't understand that what happens in our building is the business of the Board. Especially if something illegal may be taking place.

If I weren't on the Board I would not be as concerned about the happenings in my building and could easily MYOB.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/19/2014 3:30 PM
Do you have a nuisance rules in your covenants odd Rules that prohibit noxious odors? Are there certain residents who truly are troubled by these odors??

Do you have covenants or a rules against a unit having frequent short-term visitors?? If they are not braking any of your rules, is there an HOA problem?

If neither, I'm totally with Chrystal & John B. MYOB.

The HOA problem is that according to our documents nothing illegal is to take place in any of the units.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

we had two incidences in the toast three years involving the odor of marijuana bothering residents either because it wafted up from a balcony (in our high rise) into open windows above or permeated the hallways from the smokers' unit. These were nuisance violations and the owners were called to hearing and told to cease & desist or face fines that could coulee on each occurrence.

What are your laws in NE about marijuana for recreational use. As I recall, you've written 2-3 times about the son of an owner occupying (or not) his father's unit. This seems to be in part about him.

What do you hope to accomplish if/when you prove or don't prove that the missing-teeth guy is a meth addict?? How will a presentation by the police help you?

I lived in the south for a few years in the late 80'd-early '90s and saw lots of folk over 55 with missing teeth. I don't think it was due to meth use.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Bonnie,

The correct response if you think you smell marijuana, is to contact the police.
That's it. After you have done that, as John said, you need to simply let the police handle it.

Additionally, keep in mind it's possible that when the police show up that they won't smell anything. If they don't smell anything then all they can really do is knock on the door to see if anyone answers and let them know a complaint was made. Hopefully in doing this they can see something that can give them probable cause. Otherwise, there hands are tied.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

I am disgusted with the comments on this topic so far.

Bonnie is a member of the board of directors for her condo association. The association has a legally enforceable duty to provide security as any landlord would in an apartment. Therefore, Bonnie has a fiduciary duty to be certain that residents and visitors are not being placed in danger while on the premises.

Bonnie has received information from third parties that there may be drug use in two units. The information seems credible and warrants further investigation. Each of these units presents its own set of problems, which I will discuss below:

Unit "A" is next door to Bonnie's unit. She has previously observed that the owner is sharing the unit with an adult son in violation of the age-restricted covenants and the owner has lied about it. Now she has information that there is a strong marijuana odor in this unit. This would not be the first time that a clueless parent has lied for his worthless drugged-out adult son. I have seen this precise situation a number of times in the past and it almost always ends with some sort of violence, with the parents being the most likely victims but anyone is fair game for a whacko.

Unit "B" is the one with "many different people coming and going. The lady who lives next to him has seen suspicious activity. He has no teeth which I understand could be an indication of drug use." In addition, Bonnie stated, "A couple of weeks ago one woman knocked on my door and wanted to use my phone to call someone to pick her up. I asked her why she did not use the phone of the person she was visiting. She said because he has my purse and won't give it to me. My car keys are in it and I need them to get home. The man (who has the many visitors) who had her [purse] never answered the door or the phone. I told her we needed to call the police and she said 'I don't want the police involved.'" The only reason I can imagine for not wanting to call the police is that the "victim" has reason to believe that she will also be arrested if the police are called. This certainly is not the activity one expects to encounter among law-abiding senior citizens but it is consistent with criminal activity.

There is certainly reason to suspect criminal activity, especially in Unit B, and drug use in Unit A. Since the association has the duty to protect its residents and their visitors, Bonnie needs to take this farther. Her call to the police was a good first step but the police cannot act without probable cause. This places Bonnie in a jam. If she minds her own business, as too many have suggested, she is in breach of her duty. She cannot resolve the problem without further investigation, hence my earlier suggestion that her association bring in a professional to determine whether there is sufficient evidence of criminal activity to allow the police to act. The association needs to cover its collective butt at this point and hiring a professional to assess the situation ought to do the job.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

But, again, is recreational drug use illegal in NE (unit A)?

What kind of "professional" do you suggest, Larry? Does s/he need some sort of credentials or license? How much is Bonnie's HOA likely to pay for such services? I ask because i have no idea.

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304

Posted:

I think you need to let law enforcement handle things. At a minimum, everyone should have the non-emergency telephone number for their local law enforcement agency. There is nothing wrong with reporting suspicious activity.

I agree that it is easy to make assumptions and that just because someone is missing their teeth it doesn't make them a drug addict.

However, I have heard of seniors selling their narcotic prescriptions to make money. I don't think it is a widely pervasive phenomenon, but it has happened in recent years. Certain pills have a very nice street value since the DEA has cracked down on pill mills.

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304

Posted:

I think you need to let law enforcement handle things. At a minimum, everyone should have the non-emergency telephone number for their local law enforcement agency. There is nothing wrong with reporting suspicious activity.

I agree that it is easy to make assumptions and that just because someone is missing their teeth it doesn't make them a drug addict.

However, I have heard of seniors selling their narcotic prescriptions to make money. I don't think it is a widely pervasive phenomenon, but it has happened in recent years. Certain pills have a very nice street value since the DEA has cracked down on pill mills.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/19/2014 5:36 PM

But, again, is recreational drug use illegal in NE (unit A)?

My concern would not be the drug use per se, but with the probability of a violent outcome. Bonnie said the owner claims the unit is empty but she knows it is occupied by the owner's son. It is not likely that the owner himself does not know that his son is living there. The lying father covering up for his drug-using kid is a ticking time bomb. Hopefully when this dysfunctional family explodes they will do so elsewhere.

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/19/2014 5:36 PM

What kind of "professional" do you suggest, Larry? Does s/he need some sort of credentials or license? How much is Bonnie's HOA likely to pay for such services? I ask because i have no idea.

My original thought was a security guard but they are not really trained to gather evidence so I would suggest a private investigator. In most states these are licensed professionals and usually require some sort of police experience.

I have no idea what the cost is and that should not factor into the question. If your house is burning you do whatever it takes to put out the fire.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 07/19/2014 5:13 PM
Bonnie,

The correct response if you think you smell marijuana, is to contact the police.
That's it. After you have done that, as John said, you need to simply let the police handle it.

Additionally, keep in mind it's possible that when the police show up that they won't smell anything. If they don't smell anything then all they can really do is knock on the door to see if anyone answers and let them know a complaint was made. Hopefully in doing this they can see something that can give them probable cause. Otherwise, there hands are tied.

I do agree that just missing teeth is not an indication of meth use. My late husband had some missing teeth but he did get false teeth.
I don't want to go into detail about the way the man with missing teeth behaves.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

I have heard the young man who is living in the unit next to mine holler at a lady who I assume was his mother who was talking to on the phone.

He is usually very quiet, but a few times when I stepped into the hall I heard him hollering.
Some times I could hear distinctly what he said, but just hear a woman's voice. At one time I thought I heard him say "I will kill you" But I will not report that to the police because I am only 98% positive of what I heard (I think I didn't want to hear it)and there was no direct threat to me.
And other people have heard this father and son arguing before. So yes, I hope if things blow up in this family it is not in this building.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Our neighbor, Colorado, is the state that has legalized pot for recreational use. In NE it is still illegal.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Larry,
thank you. You voiced my concerns better than I could convey them.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Larry,
thank you again, but just a slight correction, the owner of the unit next to mine is not sharing the unit with his son. Only his son is living in the unit. Some new Board members want to just let him live there because he isn't causing any problems. OF course he isn't causing any noticeable problem because he tries to sneak in and out. I am concerned that if we gave the young man permission to live here, we would have many more problems.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CyrstalB on 07/19/2014 4:27 AM
How sad that in America someone can be completely thrown under a bus without any proof of "illegal activity". You are spreading malicious rumors without any evidence. You know nothing about these people do you? Yet you are on this public forum accusing someone of illegal activity?

Your in a senior community? Perhaps this person is suffering from an illness that requires several people to come in and help in like my grandparents did. Maybe they have no teeth because they are SENIORS?????????????

And just maybe they are fighting an illness like cancer and they are using pot like so many others do when dealing with chemo etc.

It is just plain sick how "neighbors" will assume so much on so little. Shame on you and the people in your community who feel it is their right to go around and spread RUMORS. And how dare you ask this forum or anyone else when your accusation is without proof or evidence.

Maybe you should be a nice neighbor and go knock on their door and offer some assistance.

Are you serious??
The OP has reason to believe that illegal activity is being carried out on the premises.
What to do do in such a situation?
Offer them a hand.
"Hey, I notice a lot of people coming & going from your place at odd hours and not staying for long. It leads me to think that maybe you're selling drugs. Can I help?"

Seeing as how we don't know where Bonnie lives and she's not giving names & address of the people she's leery of, nobody is being thrown under any bus and no rumours are being spread, and no accusations are being made.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Some new Board members want to just let him live there because he isn't causing any problems.

CASE CLOSED

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 07/20/2014 6:22 AM

Some new Board members want to just let him live there because he isn't causing any problems.

CASE CLOSED

Case not closed. I could just about guarantee if the Board "allowed" him to live here he would give more problems. I don't want to go into detail but his father who owns the unit has given previous Board members many many problems.

Oh and has far as our members knowing anything about our suspicion of illegal drug use in the unit adjacent to mine unless one of our board members have loose lips the only people who know about this are (1) our PM who reported the strong smell of pot (2) an owner who is a lawyer and a consultant to the Board) (3) the Association's lawyer and (4) the other Board members.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

The board did their duty by calling the police so therefor there is nothing else the board can do at this time.

And thank you for backing up my post with your silliness. People always assume the worst of all other people. Please don't be so naive to think that "nobody is being thrown under any bus and no rumours are being spread, and no accusations are being made."

That happened the minute she pressed the submit button on this forum. The day the police were called was the day that rumor started spreading around the HOA.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CyrstalB on 07/20/2014 6:41 AM
The board did their duty by calling the police so therefor there is nothing else the board can do at this time.

And thank you for backing up my post with your silliness. People always assume the worst of all other people. Please don't be so naive to think that "nobody is being thrown under any bus and no rumours are being spread, and no accusations are being made."

That happened the minute she pressed the submit button on this forum. The day the police were called was the day that rumor started spreading around the HOA.

The Board did not call the police to come to our building. Our PM checked with the police to see what we might do. However the owner whose unit is adjacent to his told me she did call the police at one time.
As a Board member I am very leery of calling the police unless I have much more evidence that what I have noticed.
Of course the owner who lives next to this man notices much more about his comings and goings and about his visitors comings and goings. The owner living next to him has wanted to Board to take much more action than we have been taking about this matter. This owner at one time even threatened to get a gun to "protect herself".

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Now we know the rest of the story, the father has given many many problems. Now your ready to guarantee that if you so graciously allow him to live there, he will cause problems too. But hey, no judgement going on here!

Loose lips are just that, loose lips. You've just listed four+ people who have the capability of discussing their grave concerns with other people who will discuss it with other people too. Sorry but at this point you are being loosed lipped too, simply by looking for help.

The missing point here is that if you've done your due diligence, and without evidence you can't do anything else at this point, but maybe try and tighten up your CCR's and get to know your police department well enough to the point of getting them to come asap when you call after smelling something.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 07/18/2014 9:03 PM
We are a 43 unit apt style senior condominium in NE.
A man in one unit has many different people coming and going. The lady who lives next to him has seen suspicious activity. He has no teeth which I understand could be an indication of drug use.

When a man from our property management company was with our pest control person there was a strong smell of pot in one unit. These are two separate units.

Basically the police have told us the only think we could do is to call them if we smell the pot, but since I don't know what pot smells like I hesitate to call the police. I have smelled what I thought might be pot.
I was also told that the only thing the police could do was knock on the door and unless they saw something suspicious even they could not do anything.

So much for living in a drug free senior community.

Have any of you had to deal with this type of problem?

{b] A man in one unit has many different people coming and going. Which covenant provision is being violated?

The lady who lives next to him has seen suspicious activity. She should report to local law enforcement or send the BOD a signed letter specifying the covenant violation.

He has no teeth which I understand could be an indication of drug use. "Could, should, would" are rather vague and meainingless filler words. Which covenant is being violated?

...there was a strong smell of pot in one unit. Have the 'smeller' report to the BOD in writing and all the police.

...I hesitate to call the police. I have smelled what I thought might be pot. To paraphrase a fictitious wise man: "Call, or call not; there is no almost."

So much for living in a drug free senior community. You must be joking.

Have any of you had to deal with this type of problem? No, we mind our own business and call the police if we see a criminal act or have a serious safety concern.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

{b] A man in one unit has many different people coming and going. Which covenant provision is being violated?

oops, should have been:

A man in one unit has many different people coming and going. Which covenant provision is being violated?

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I continue to agree with JohnB & Chrystal. Too many rumors, too much speculation. You've done what you should, bonnie.

I know this owner's under-55 son who lives next door to you has concerned you for over a year now as you've written about him at least 2-3 times. If he's noisy & you have noise nuisance prohibitions, take your HOA's steps to discipline the owner. If your have a noxious odor nuisance restriction, ditto.

In our HOA such nuisances would be required to corroborated by a third person-- a neutral party, e.g., another director or your PM.

From what we've read over the past several years, the potentially violent individuals seem to be men who are "quiet" peaceable loners. Should all of us worry about those "types" who live among us?

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

ps.

as per HUD:

a 'part time' resident who returns on a periodic basis DOES count as an occupant

only ONE occupant of a 'unit' is required to be 55+ for the unit to 'count'

unless your CCRs specify 100% occupancy by 55+ you are ka-ka out of luck

if the 'unit' owner has a trespasser, HE needs to contact L.E.

THESE ARE THE ACTUAL RULES, like them or not

pps.

Bonnie,

You will need either:

1000 acres in Nevada

OR

a much higher wall

TO

hide from the realities of society and the actual law.

John B. (the PitA)

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By CyrstalB on 07/20/2014 6:50 AM
Now we know the rest of the story, the father has given many many problems. Now your ready to guarantee that if you so graciously allow him to live there, he will cause problems too. But hey, no judgement going on here!

Loose lips are just that, loose lips. You've just listed four+ people who have the capability of discussing their grave concerns with other people who will discuss it with other people too. Sorry but at this point you are being loosed lipped too, simply by looking for help.

The missing point here is that if you've done your due diligence, and without evidence you can't do anything else at this point, but maybe try and tighten up your CCR's and get to know your police department well enough to the point of getting them to come asap when you call after smelling something.

We have just begun the process of updating our documents. This will be a long expensive process but they do need updating.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 07/20/2014 9:25 AM
ps.

as per HUD:

a 'part time' resident who returns on a periodic basis DOES count as an occupant

only ONE occupant of a 'unit' is required to be 55+ for the unit to 'count'

unless your CCRs specify 100% occupancy by 55+ you are ka-ka out of luck

if the 'unit' owner has a trespasser, HE needs to contact L.E.

THESE ARE THE ACTUAL RULES, like them or not

pps.

Bonnie,

You will need either:

1000 acres in Nevada

OR

a much higher wall

John, I know the rules. I also know that these are the minimum requirements for being a senior community in spite of what some others have posted on here. Our Master Deed (similar to CC&Rs) states one must be 57 but the Board will allow someone 55 or 56 to move into a unit. The only exception our documents allow is that a spouse can be younger.
I would like to see this changed, but until our documents are updated we have to live with what we have.

TO

hide from the realities of society and the actual law.

John B. (the PitA)

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/20/2014 9:13 AM
I continue to agree with JohnB & Chrystal. Too many rumors, too much speculation. You've done what you should, bonnie.

I know this owner's under-55 son who lives next door to you has concerned you for over a year now as you've written about him at least 2-3 times. If he's noisy & you have noise nuisance prohibitions, take your HOA's steps to discipline the owner. If your have a noxious odor nuisance restriction, ditto.

In our HOA such nuisances would be required to corroborated by a third person-- a neutral party, e.g., another director or your PM.

From what we've read over the past several years, the potentially violent individuals seem to be men who are "quiet" peaceable loners. Should all of us worry about those "types" who live among us?

We have given the owner many opportunities to request a Board hearing and he repeatedly has refused to do so. Or the hearing could even be with disinterested owners and not with the Board. There are not many disinterested owners as most owners want him out.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Whoa, whoa, Bonnie. What is your definition of "hearing"? What is the definition of "hearing" in your documents? What is the definition of an HOA hearing in NE, if any?

Serious question because in CA and among all kinds of people who've posted here, if an owner violates the rules, usually he gets a warning. If he doesn't "cure" the violation, the Board, in writing sent by US mail asks ("invites." "calls") the Owner to attend a meeting (a hearing) with the Board to discuss the alleged violation, give the owner a chance to tell his side of the story. The owner is excused, the board deliberates and votes on a decision, e.g., a fine (or maybe not). The owner is notified of the board's decision by U.S. mail. If the owner doesn't attend the meeting, the board deliberates and votes and sends alter to the owner.

This is just a rough outline and state laws vary about the procedure.. In CA, it's a very strict procedure that must be followed to the letter. Does you HOA have no procedure for fining owners who are in violation of your covenants? If not, can NE law help you?

Now, what you wrote about a "hearing" doesn't sound anything like that because you make it seem like the Owner should request a hearing. But why? What does/would he want from your HOA?? And why is your Board asking him to (I guess) conduct a hearing?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BonnieG1 on 07/20/2014 11:35 AM

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/20/2014 9:13 AM
I continue to agree with JohnB & Chrystal. Too many rumors, too much speculation. You've done what you should, bonnie.

I know this owner's under-55 son who lives next door to you has concerned you for over a year now as you've written about him at least 2-3 times. If he's noisy & you have noise nuisance prohibitions, take your HOA's steps to discipline the owner. If your have a noxious odor nuisance restriction, ditto.

In our HOA such nuisances would be required to corroborated by a third person-- a neutral party, e.g., another director or your PM.

From what we've read over the past several years, the potentially violent individuals seem to be men who are "quiet" peaceable loners. Should all of us worry about those "types" who live among us?

We have given the owner many opportunities to request a Board hearing and he repeatedly has refused to do so. Or the hearing could even be with disinterested owners and not with the Board. There are not many disinterested owners as most owners want him out.

Bonnie

Your association has already lost the one the under 55 living there due to BOD inaction and the fact it might not be wrong. I suggest get over it and get off his case.

Work on what might be another issue, primarily the comings and goings from an alleged drug activity unit. If all are concerned it might be time to hire some professional help (legal, Private Investigator) to ascertain if illegal activity is going on in that unit.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

or, one can occupy one's time with a hobby

but

we already have one, the WORLD WIBE WEB

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/20/2014 11:54 AM
Whoa, whoa, Bonnie. What is your definition of "hearing"? What is the definition of "hearing" in your documents? What is the definition of an HOA hearing in NE, if any?

Serious question because in CA and among all kinds of people who've posted here, if an owner violates the rules, usually he gets a warning. If he doesn't "cure" the violation, the Board, in writing sent by US mail asks ("invites." "calls") the Owner to attend a meeting (a hearing) with the Board to discuss the alleged violation, give the owner a chance to tell his side of the story. The owner is excused, the board deliberates and votes on a decision, e.g., a fine (or maybe not). The owner is notified of the board's decision by U.S. mail. If the owner doesn't attend the meeting, the board deliberates and votes and sends alter to the owner.

This is just a rough outline and state laws vary about the procedure.. In CA, it's a very strict procedure that must be followed to the letter. Does you HOA have no procedure for fining owners who are in violation of your covenants? If not, can NE law help you?

Now, what you wrote about a "hearing" doesn't sound anything like that because you make it seem like the Owner should request a hearing. But why? What does/would he want from your HOA?? And why is your Board asking him to (I guess) conduct a hearing?

We have been fining the owner per our fine schedule. And our documents state that if an owner wants to contest a fine, he must request a Board hearing. He keeps saying he has met with the Board. We did go to court once and got a declaratory judgment against him prohibiting him from letting anyone under age 57 live in the unit but this was not a Board Hearing. He also keeps insisting that the court gave him "all rights" I actually like the way CA law would handle this better than NE law. But we have to live with what we have.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By KerryL1 on 07/20/2014 11:54 AM
Whoa, whoa, Bonnie. What is your definition of "hearing"? What is the definition of "hearing" in your documents? What is the definition of an HOA hearing in NE, if any?

Serious question because in CA and among all kinds of people who've posted here, if an owner violates the rules, usually he gets a warning. If he doesn't "cure" the violation, the Board, in writing sent by US mail asks ("invites." "calls") the Owner to attend a meeting (a hearing) with the Board to discuss the alleged violation, give the owner a chance to tell his side of the story. The owner is excused, the board deliberates and votes on a decision, e.g., a fine (or maybe not). The owner is notified of the board's decision by U.S. mail. If the owner doesn't attend the meeting, the board deliberates and votes and sends alter to the owner.

This is just a rough outline and state laws vary about the procedure.. In CA, it's a very strict procedure that must be followed to the letter. Does you HOA have no procedure for fining owners who are in violation of your covenants? If not, can NE law help you?

Now, what you wrote about a "hearing" doesn't sound anything like that because you make it seem like the Owner should request a hearing. But why? What does/would he want from your HOA?? And why is your Board asking him to (I guess) conduct a hearing?

the Board is not asking him to conduct a hearing but giving him an opportunity to request a hearing to contest the fines.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Bonnie,

You certainly have a right to be concerned about what is going on in your building. The people who post on this forum do not know all of the particulars about your building and the people who reside there. I can understand your feelings of uneasiness. You are there every day and can observe things. You probably know when something just doesn't seem quite right. I lived in Nebraska for 20 years. I know that the meth problem there was huge in the later part of my residence there. Iowa is the same and it hasn't improved much.

If the Association has the funds, I would go the private investigator route. What would the reaction of others be, if you had just completely ignored the situation and something terrible happened. Even if nothing can be done or your suspicions were wrong at least you tried. From what you posted, I think your suspicions probably have some merit.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

OK,

The suspicion has merit.

Let us round up the usual suspects.

Problem solved.

OR

Let L.E. handle the issue.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

We had a recent home invasion in Iowa where a young man entered the home of an elderly couple and beat them presumably trying to rob them. Unfortunately the elderly man died. We live in a society where we have to be aware of what is going on around us. Not to be paranoid but if Bonnie thinks something is amiss something probably is. I don't put all of my faith in law enforcement. I just don't think her concerns should just be dismissed as being an old busy body. We have to look after each other or really bad things can happen.

A private investigator may give Bonnie enough information that she could take to the police. Then they may investigate the matter.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

What section of the Covenants would authorize the expenditure of Association funds for a private investigator based upon the opinion of ONE director ? or even the entire Board ?

Would not such expenditure be a budgeted line item ? Let the members vote !

The HOA is NOT the 'bad behavior police'.

? Missing teeth ?

? Multiple visitors ?

? An unknown (by admission) smell ?

If L.E. can do nothing what on earth would you have the HOA do ?

Build a higher wall ? Mount machine guns ?

Does anyone remember a certain incident recently in Florida ?!

.....rant over
.....topic closed for me

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

It would be nice if we could spend the funds for a PI. But this is one of few times I agree with John. We would need a member vote before we could spend this kind of money and of course we would have to let all members vote including the member we suspect of suspicious activity.

If the members on their own decided to pitch in an pay for a PI that is allowed in our documents and the Board would allow them to do this.

BanksS
Posts: 403

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnB26 on 07/20/2014 4:28 PM
What section of the Covenants would authorize the expenditure of Association funds for a private investigator based upon the opinion of ONE director ? or even the entire Board ?

Would not such expenditure be a budgeted line item ? Let the members vote !

The HOA is NOT the 'bad behavior police'.

? Missing teeth ?

? Multiple visitors ?

? An unknown (by admission) smell ?

If L.E. can do nothing what on earth would you have the HOA do ?

Build a higher wall ? Mount machine guns ?

Does anyone remember a certain incident recently in Florida ?!

.....rant over
.....topic closed for me

My point was none of us know the reality of Bonnie's situation. Just to give you an example, I work in a school office where the student population is over 300 students. We have students coming and going at various times through out the day. And we have people coming in and out of the building all day. I have a heightened awareness of my surroundings and the people coming in and out of my building. I usually know when something is amiss because the safety of the students and people in the building are my priority. I don't just let anyone walk in without asking questions and if someone I don't know comes to pick up a child, the bottom line is that child is not going with that person. And it has made people mad and maybe it is violating their rights but safety comes first. I can apologize later.

I am certain Bonnie is not watching everything that goes on in her building but I bet she has a heightened awareness of what is going on. I bet you as president of her HOA, she feels the same responsibility. The residents for the most part are 55 plus. She stated there was no security in her building. There is no security in my school building either. It's a daunting task, and I think we should cut her some slack.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186

Posted:

Banks,
you are correct. I don't watch every thing that goes on in my building. I do much volunteer work. One place I go, I have a regular schedule of 20 hours a week. Besides this I do other volunteer work where the schedule is not quite so regular no as many hours. Many times when I am home I am in my unit working on Board work or studying our documents and state laws. (or on this site)

As a person I don't care what my neighbors do as long as it doesn't affect me.
As Board President I am extremely concerned about what appears to be a problem in our building.

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

"There are not many disinterested owners as most owners want him out."

How is that possible without a well founded "grapevine" of information, accusatory or otherwise?

CyrstalB (Maryland)
Posts: 457

Posted:

Banks is correct, we do not know all the particulars, and we base our "help" on what is posted. With that being said, there have been two board meetings in our HOA that this exact issue was discussed. It was very sad to see what appeared to be adults in board positions start making assumptions and plans with just the statement of, "the are probably dealing drugs". There was no proof, cops hadn't been called, nothing, but they were discussing it as if it was a proven fact. They don't know the individuals at all, but based on a rumor, they were ready to have the HOA do something about it. Fortunately for our HOA, I was able to explain the liability involved without proof and they tabled the discussion.