BruceS3 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
I am the president of our HOA here in Florida and have heard the term Mandatory HOA. How do I tell if our HOA is a mandatory one?
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What is the Definition of a Mandatory HOA
Started by BruceS3 ⢠14 replies ⢠2259 views
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JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Bruce
It is usually in the Covenants/Deed Restrictions. Ours are very clear:
Our Covenants state the following:
Article 3. The Association
Section 1. Membership and Voting Rights.
It is mandatory that every person or entity who is an owner of any Lot shall be a Member of the Association. Membership shall be mandatory to and may not be separated from ownership of any lot.
It is usually in the Covenants/Deed Restrictions. Ours are very clear:
Our Covenants state the following:
Article 3. The Association
Section 1. Membership and Voting Rights.
It is mandatory that every person or entity who is an owner of any Lot shall be a Member of the Association. Membership shall be mandatory to and may not be separated from ownership of any lot.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
It would typically be within the CC&Rs and/or the Articles of Incorporation.
The CC&Rs and the Articles would typically identify or infer mandatory in the section where membership is defined.
For example, I've bolded the language that I believe makes membership mandatory (but it could be different language). Here is the language in our Articles of Incorporation:
Every person or entity who is a record owner of a fee or undivided fee interest in any Lot which is subject by covenants of record to assessment by the Association, including contract sellers, shall be a member of the Association. The foregoing is not intended to include persons or entities who hold an interest merely as security for the performance of an obligation. Membership shall be appurtenant to and may not be separated from ownership of any Lot which is subject to assessment by the Association.
Here is the language in our CC&Rs:
Each person or entity who is a record owner of a fee or undivided interest in any lot which is subject to covenants of record to assessment by the Association shall be a member of the Association. The foregoing is not intended to include persons or entities who hold an interest as security for the performance of an obligation. Membership shall be appurtenant to and may not be separated from ownership of any Lot which is subject to assessment by the Association. Ownership of such Lot shall be the sole qualification for membership.
The CC&Rs and the Articles would typically identify or infer mandatory in the section where membership is defined.
For example, I've bolded the language that I believe makes membership mandatory (but it could be different language). Here is the language in our Articles of Incorporation:
Every person or entity who is a record owner of a fee or undivided fee interest in any Lot which is subject by covenants of record to assessment by the Association, including contract sellers, shall be a member of the Association. The foregoing is not intended to include persons or entities who hold an interest merely as security for the performance of an obligation. Membership shall be appurtenant to and may not be separated from ownership of any Lot which is subject to assessment by the Association.
Here is the language in our CC&Rs:
Each person or entity who is a record owner of a fee or undivided interest in any lot which is subject to covenants of record to assessment by the Association shall be a member of the Association. The foregoing is not intended to include persons or entities who hold an interest as security for the performance of an obligation. Membership shall be appurtenant to and may not be separated from ownership of any Lot which is subject to assessment by the Association. Ownership of such Lot shall be the sole qualification for membership.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Florida Statute 720, the statute that governs mandatory HOAs, defines a HOA as following:
(9)ââHomeownersâ associationâ or âassociationâ means a Florida corporation responsible for the operation of a community or a mobile home subdivision in which the voting membership is made up of parcel owners or their agents, or a combination thereof, and in which membership is a mandatory condition of parcel ownership, and which is authorized to impose assessments that, if unpaid, may become a lien on the parcel. The term âhomeownersâ associationâ does not include a community development district or other similar special taxing district created pursuant to statute.
So if your HOA requires homeowners to be members AND can impose assessments AND can place liens on the parcels then it is a mandatory association.
There are also other factors that play into the matter but this is the main one. If your covenants say you must be a member and grants power of assessments and liens then you are a mandatory association.
It is also really good to become acquainted with Statutes 712, 617, and 720.
(9)ââHomeownersâ associationâ or âassociationâ means a Florida corporation responsible for the operation of a community or a mobile home subdivision in which the voting membership is made up of parcel owners or their agents, or a combination thereof, and in which membership is a mandatory condition of parcel ownership, and which is authorized to impose assessments that, if unpaid, may become a lien on the parcel. The term âhomeownersâ associationâ does not include a community development district or other similar special taxing district created pursuant to statute.
So if your HOA requires homeowners to be members AND can impose assessments AND can place liens on the parcels then it is a mandatory association.
There are also other factors that play into the matter but this is the main one. If your covenants say you must be a member and grants power of assessments and liens then you are a mandatory association.
It is also really good to become acquainted with Statutes 712, 617, and 720.
BruceS3 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
First off thanks to everyone that took time to answer my questions. I have learned so much from reading the forums here and I really do appreciate it.
Second, I checked and sure enough item number 23 in our Covenants and Restrictions we shall be a member and will be charged an annual fee to maintain the retention ponds. (We have no other common property. Our roads and streetlights are owned and maintained by Brevard County.) My concern was that if we were not a mandatory HOA then we might have all kinds of problems.
We have 35 Homes and 3 retention ponds. (1 dry and 2 wet).
Our Covenants and Restrictions use the same statutes that the County has for maintaining property, etc.
We really do have an easy HOA, everyone except one individual has never complained.
Again thanks for all the advice and help.
Second, I checked and sure enough item number 23 in our Covenants and Restrictions we shall be a member and will be charged an annual fee to maintain the retention ponds. (We have no other common property. Our roads and streetlights are owned and maintained by Brevard County.) My concern was that if we were not a mandatory HOA then we might have all kinds of problems.
We have 35 Homes and 3 retention ponds. (1 dry and 2 wet).
Our Covenants and Restrictions use the same statutes that the County has for maintaining property, etc.
We really do have an easy HOA, everyone except one individual has never complained.
Again thanks for all the advice and help.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Bruce since you don't state the age of your HOA, I would suggest you look at the MRTA act for Florida, If the Board doesn't renew the Covenants in a timely manor, you could have bigger problems than whether you are a mandatory HOA or not.
Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BruceS3 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
My understanding is that the MRTA only affects HOA's that are not mandatory. We are a mandatory HOA. Further if it does affect us I for one do not care if the HOA goes away. I believe the state has found another way to take our hard earned cash. I have not seen anything good come out of HOA's except a lot of bitterness and misunderstandings. I believe that when you build a house with your money you are responsible for it. In Brevard county the county law affects users homes, etc.. I figure since I pay my taxes then they should do their job when it comes to enforcing their law. (It only takes a phone call, way cheaper then letters and lawyers fees. The HOA should not be doing it for them. The only common areas we have are the three retention ponds. Further we have gotten a lot more results getting the county involved then us trying to get HOA to obey the rules. Besides I look at this way if you want me to have my house painted your color then you should be paying my mortgage.
Having said all of that I firmly support our HOA but only because the St. Johns River Management tells us we will have one as long as we do not have city sewage and have retention ponds.
And we were formed in 1993. And in the next 9 years a lot can happen.
One more comment, I have read the MRTA forum and it seems no ones know for sure just what and when to do it. The common answer seems to be that HOA's should be having their lawyers handling those issues. Sure and you pay them more money and the HOA member have their dues raised to pay for it. And yet no one has written the State and asked them to make the law user understandable. (Obviously if they had the forum would not be so long and in itself confusing.)
Having said all of that I firmly support our HOA but only because the St. Johns River Management tells us we will have one as long as we do not have city sewage and have retention ponds.
And we were formed in 1993. And in the next 9 years a lot can happen.
One more comment, I have read the MRTA forum and it seems no ones know for sure just what and when to do it. The common answer seems to be that HOA's should be having their lawyers handling those issues. Sure and you pay them more money and the HOA member have their dues raised to pay for it. And yet no one has written the State and asked them to make the law user understandable. (Obviously if they had the forum would not be so long and in itself confusing.)
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceS3 on 07/20/2014 6:29 AM
My understanding is that the MRTA only affects HOA's that are not mandatory. We are a mandatory HOA. Further if it does affect us I for one do not care if the HOA goes away. I believe the state has found another way to take our hard earned cash. I have not seen anything good come out of HOA's except a lot of bitterness and misunderstandings. I believe that when you build a house with your money you are responsible for it. In Brevard county the county law affects users homes, etc.. I figure since I pay my taxes then they should do their job when it comes to enforcing their law. (It only takes a phone call, way cheaper then letters and lawyers fees. The HOA should not be doing it for them. The only common areas we have are the three retention ponds. Further we have gotten a lot more results getting the county involved then us trying to get HOA to obey the rules. Besides I look at this way if you want me to have my house painted your color then you should be paying my mortgage.
Having said all of that I firmly support our HOA but only because the St. Johns River Management tells us we will have one as long as we do not have city sewage and have retention ponds.
And we were formed in 1993. And in the next 9 years a lot can happen.
One more comment, I have read the MRTA forum and it seems no ones know for sure just what and when to do it. The common answer seems to be that HOA's should be having their lawyers handling those issues. Sure and you pay them more money and the HOA member have their dues raised to pay for it. And yet no one has written the State and asked them to make the law user understandable. (Obviously if they had the forum would not be so long and in itself confusing.)
My understanding is that the MRTA only affects HOA's that are not mandatory. We are a mandatory HOA. Further if it does affect us I for one do not care if the HOA goes away. I believe the state has found another way to take our hard earned cash. I have not seen anything good come out of HOA's except a lot of bitterness and misunderstandings. I believe that when you build a house with your money you are responsible for it. In Brevard county the county law affects users homes, etc.. I figure since I pay my taxes then they should do their job when it comes to enforcing their law. (It only takes a phone call, way cheaper then letters and lawyers fees. The HOA should not be doing it for them. The only common areas we have are the three retention ponds. Further we have gotten a lot more results getting the county involved then us trying to get HOA to obey the rules. Besides I look at this way if you want me to have my house painted your color then you should be paying my mortgage.
Having said all of that I firmly support our HOA but only because the St. Johns River Management tells us we will have one as long as we do not have city sewage and have retention ponds.
And we were formed in 1993. And in the next 9 years a lot can happen.
One more comment, I have read the MRTA forum and it seems no ones know for sure just what and when to do it. The common answer seems to be that HOA's should be having their lawyers handling those issues. Sure and you pay them more money and the HOA member have their dues raised to pay for it. And yet no one has written the State and asked them to make the law user understandable. (Obviously if they had the forum would not be so long and in itself confusing.)
MRTA affects everything - not just mandatory associations. It is not a HOA law but a property law that deals with encumbrances on a property, such as covenants and restrictions or easements. The reason why MRTA issues are so confusing is that there is a lot of misunderstanding of the law. Property owners and HOA board members have no clue, and that is understandable being that you have to understand legalese and many of the lawyers who deal with it work on behalf of the HOAs and there is absolutely no motivation on their part to help extinguish covenants and restrictions, essentially wiping out their revenue stream. This is why their lobbyists constantly fight consumer protection reforms.
Since you state that you were formed in 1993, you will have some time until the covenants are set to expire.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceS3 on 07/20/2014 6:29 AM
My understanding is that the MRTA only affects HOA's that are not mandatory. We are a mandatory HOA. Further if it does affect us I for one do not care if the HOA goes away. I believe the state has found another way to take our hard earned cash. I have not seen anything good come out of HOA's except a lot of bitterness and misunderstandings. I believe that when you build a house with your money you are responsible for it. In Brevard county the county law affects users homes, etc.. I figure since I pay my taxes then they should do their job when it comes to enforcing their law. (It only takes a phone call, way cheaper then letters and lawyers fees. The HOA should not be doing it for them. The only common areas we have are the three retention ponds. Further we have gotten a lot more results getting the county involved then us trying to get HOA to obey the rules. Besides I look at this way if you want me to have my house painted your color then you should be paying my mortgage.
Having said all of that I firmly support our HOA but only because the St. Johns River Management tells us we will have one as long as we do not have city sewage and have retention ponds.
And we were formed in 1993. And in the next 9 years a lot can happen.
One more comment, I have read the MRTA forum and it seems no ones know for sure just what and when to do it. The common answer seems to be that HOA's should be having their lawyers handling those issues. Sure and you pay them more money and the HOA member have their dues raised to pay for it. And yet no one has written the State and asked them to make the law user understandable. (Obviously if they had the forum would not be so long and in itself confusing.)
My understanding is that the MRTA only affects HOA's that are not mandatory. We are a mandatory HOA. Further if it does affect us I for one do not care if the HOA goes away. I believe the state has found another way to take our hard earned cash. I have not seen anything good come out of HOA's except a lot of bitterness and misunderstandings. I believe that when you build a house with your money you are responsible for it. In Brevard county the county law affects users homes, etc.. I figure since I pay my taxes then they should do their job when it comes to enforcing their law. (It only takes a phone call, way cheaper then letters and lawyers fees. The HOA should not be doing it for them. The only common areas we have are the three retention ponds. Further we have gotten a lot more results getting the county involved then us trying to get HOA to obey the rules. Besides I look at this way if you want me to have my house painted your color then you should be paying my mortgage.
Having said all of that I firmly support our HOA but only because the St. Johns River Management tells us we will have one as long as we do not have city sewage and have retention ponds.
And we were formed in 1993. And in the next 9 years a lot can happen.
One more comment, I have read the MRTA forum and it seems no ones know for sure just what and when to do it. The common answer seems to be that HOA's should be having their lawyers handling those issues. Sure and you pay them more money and the HOA member have their dues raised to pay for it. And yet no one has written the State and asked them to make the law user understandable. (Obviously if they had the forum would not be so long and in itself confusing.)
MRTA affects everything - not just mandatory associations. It is not a HOA law but a property law that deals with encumbrances on a property, such as covenants and restrictions or easements. The reason why MRTA issues are so confusing is that there is a lot of misunderstanding of the law. Property owners and HOA board members have no clue, and that is understandable being that you have to understand legalese and many of the lawyers who deal with it work on behalf of the HOAs and there is absolutely no motivation on their part to help extinguish covenants and restrictions, essentially wiping out their revenue stream. This is why their lobbyists constantly fight consumer protection reforms.
Since you state that you were formed in 1993, you will have some time until the covenants are set to expire.
BruceS3 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
Would this would hold true for counties as well since they create statutes and laws affecting home ownership, even to the state level.
I would assume that somewhere in that chain someone has or is going to set the record straight on what an HOA or county or state can do in regards to property restrictions.
I would assume that somewhere in that chain someone has or is going to set the record straight on what an HOA or county or state can do in regards to property restrictions.
BruceS3 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
The bottom line is no one really knows including the yahoos that created the law in the first place. Sounds like the government business as usual. Glad I live in the United States where I can say without being paranoid (hmmmm....maybe)
BruceS3 (Florida)
Posts: 33
Posts: 33
Posted:
While we are moving away from the orginal question here is a web site pretty much sums it all up.
http://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2010/01/articles/covenant-enforcementviolations/hoa-leaders-need-to-understand-mrta/
http://www.floridacondohoalawblog.com/2010/01/articles/covenant-enforcementviolations/hoa-leaders-need-to-understand-mrta/
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceS3 on 07/20/2014 2:17 PM
Would this would hold true for counties as well since they create statutes and laws affecting home ownership, even to the state level.
I would assume that somewhere in that chain someone has or is going to set the record straight on what an HOA or county or state can do in regards to property restrictions.
Would this would hold true for counties as well since they create statutes and laws affecting home ownership, even to the state level.
I would assume that somewhere in that chain someone has or is going to set the record straight on what an HOA or county or state can do in regards to property restrictions.
there are provisions in the law for government or things like utility easements.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BruceS3 on 07/20/2014 2:19 PM
The bottom line is no one really knows including the yahoos that created the law in the first place. Sounds like the government business as usual. Glad I live in the United States where I can say without being paranoid (hmmmm....maybe)
The bottom line is no one really knows including the yahoos that created the law in the first place. Sounds like the government business as usual. Glad I live in the United States where I can say without being paranoid (hmmmm....maybe)
I like the remark "yahoos". The main reasons I do not like overt politician/bureaucrat control (such as in FL and CA) is I do not believe they, especially the politicians, are the sharpest knives in the draw. Yahoo's works for me.
KevinK7 (Florida)
Posts: 1,343
Posts: 1,343
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/20/2014 4:47 PM
Posted By BruceS3 on 07/20/2014 2:19 PM
The bottom line is no one really knows including the yahoos that created the law in the first place. Sounds like the government business as usual. Glad I live in the United States where I can say without being paranoid (hmmmm....maybe)
The bottom line is no one really knows including the yahoos that created the law in the first place. Sounds like the government business as usual. Glad I live in the United States where I can say without being paranoid (hmmmm....maybe)
I like the remark "yahoos". The main reasons I do not like overt politician/bureaucrat control (such as in FL and CA) is I do not believe they, especially the politicians, are the sharpest knives in the draw. Yahoo's works for me.
I agree... but I also don't like the other knives in the drawer controlling my property.
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