KyleD (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Hi i was wondering how i could get approval for a trained therapy mini horse to be on my property? My last community the hoa was not strick about this but i have a felling that my new neiborhood will be.
A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
Mini horse
Started by KyleD • 29 replies • 2650 views
💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
I believe that your new HOA would be simply THRILLED at the prospect of horse manure in your yard and will bend over backwards to accommodate your every wish and whim from now until eternity.
ps.
What does your contract (Covenants) say about horses ?
? NOT ALLOWED ?
your question has been answered
ps.
What does your contract (Covenants) say about horses ?
? NOT ALLOWED ?
your question has been answered
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Unfortunately...... grumble....... even mini horses are now covered under ADA laws. The HOA can do nothing to prevent you from having the horse, nor disapprove if it is in fact a service animal for you and you need it.
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
Miniature Horses
In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
--------------------------------------------------
http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
Miniature Horses
In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Aha..the old get a certificate Service Animal scam. Works for pigs, horses, etc.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Mind you, and you likely know this, there are typically County codes and zoning requirements concerning equines. Therefore, regardless of the HOA issue, you might still have an issue with the County.
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posts: 503
Posted:
You say therapy and not service animal. These are two different things.
There is a person who had a service dog and then got a pig to be the service dog's companion. This person had to go around the law AND pay fines because a pig is not legal in her locale.
I also suppose because the person already had a service animal and then decided to get a pig and pay to have it trained, the judges do not find her defense very convincing. So she has two service animals and spends her time campaigning to keep the pig. She still has the dog, but the stories about her are misleading because they make no mention of the dog.
If you want to be a good neighbor, then I would only adopt an animal that your contract says you can have since a dog or cat can certainly be a service animal and are usually within the limits of the CC&R. A dog can access places more easily than a horse because like a pig, a horse has hooves and not all surfaces are good for hooves (some are too slippery).
There is a person who had a service dog and then got a pig to be the service dog's companion. This person had to go around the law AND pay fines because a pig is not legal in her locale.
I also suppose because the person already had a service animal and then decided to get a pig and pay to have it trained, the judges do not find her defense very convincing. So she has two service animals and spends her time campaigning to keep the pig. She still has the dog, but the stories about her are misleading because they make no mention of the dog.
If you want to be a good neighbor, then I would only adopt an animal that your contract says you can have since a dog or cat can certainly be a service animal and are usually within the limits of the CC&R. A dog can access places more easily than a horse because like a pig, a horse has hooves and not all surfaces are good for hooves (some are too slippery).
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 07/16/2014 4:14 PM
In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
HOA's are not places of public accommodation and not subject to the requirements of the ADA. The ADA is very limited in its scope, which is why there are at least two references in the above to "the facility."
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
I have, out of curiosity, become somewhat educated:
as per: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
While the ADA does NOT apply to HOAs as they are not 'public accommodations', the Fair Housing Act DOES apply. Said act allows 'assistance animals' and INCLUDES 'miniature horses' as an approved assistance animal.
"read it and weep"
we are not, in fact, universally in charge regardless of what we would LIKE to see in our 'covenants'
as per: http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
This publication provides guidance on the term “service animal” and the service animal provisions in the Department’s new regulations.
##Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.
##A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.
##Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.
How “Service Animal” Is Defined
Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.
This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act.
Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney general’s office.
##Beginning on March 15, 2011, only dogs are recognized as service animals under titles II and III of the ADA.
##A service animal is a dog that is individually trained to do work or perform tasks for a person with a disability.
##Generally, title II and title III entities must permit service animals to accompany people with disabilities in all areas where members of the public are allowed to go.
How “Service Animal” Is Defined
Service animals are defined as dogs that are individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. Examples of such work or tasks include guiding people who are blind, alerting people who are deaf, pulling a wheelchair, alerting and protecting a person who is having a seizure, reminding a person with mental illness to take prescribed medications, calming a person with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) during an anxiety attack, or performing other duties. Service animals are working animals, not pets. The work or task a dog has been trained to provide must be directly related to the person’s disability. Dogs whose sole function is to provide comfort or emotional support do not qualify as service animals under the ADA.
This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act.
Some State and local laws also define service animal more broadly than the ADA does. Information about such laws can be obtained from the State attorney general’s office.
While the ADA does NOT apply to HOAs as they are not 'public accommodations', the Fair Housing Act DOES apply. Said act allows 'assistance animals' and INCLUDES 'miniature horses' as an approved assistance animal.
"read it and weep"
we are not, in fact, universally in charge regardless of what we would LIKE to see in our 'covenants'
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
oops:
I, like many, only read what I wanted to see. I missed:
An HOA (generally) is NOT covered by the ADA.
(unless the HOA itself rents facilities to the general public making it a 'public accommodation')
I, like many, only read what I wanted to see. I missed:
Miniature Horses
In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
In addition to the provisions about service dogs, the Department’s revised ADA regulations have a new, separate provision about miniature horses that have been individually trained to do work or perform tasks for people with disabilities. (Miniature horses generally range in height from 24 inches to 34 inches measured to the shoulders and generally weigh between 70 and 100 pounds.) Entities covered by the ADA must modify their policies to permit miniature horses where reasonable. The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
An HOA (generally) is NOT covered by the ADA.
(unless the HOA itself rents facilities to the general public making it a 'public accommodation')
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Larry,
Forgive me.
I missed that the master had spoken.
You are wise.
ps. darn lack of edit feature
Forgive me.
I missed that the master had spoken.
You are wise.
ps. darn lack of edit feature
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
An HOA (generally) is NOT covered by the ADA.
But........ the Federal Fair Housing Act ("FFHA") does cover service animals. And the FFHA is very similar to the ADA.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
This definition does not affect or limit the broader definition of “assistance animal” under the Fair Housing Act or the broader definition of “service animal” under the Air Carrier Access Act.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Before getting into the debate over whether they're allowed or not, there is one simple question:
What is this particular horse trained to do that makes it a service animal?
What is this particular horse trained to do that makes it a service animal?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Ahh, but the federal fair housing act (FFHA) does. From an attorney's blog:
It is important to note that the ADA applies only to "public accommodations." Therefore, a HOA will not be subject to the ADA unless the HOA is operating what can be considered a "public accommodation." A "public accommodation" is any facility which a HOA is holding out for use by members of the general public--not solely for use by the HOA's members and their guests. . . .
The FFHA is similar to the ADA; however, the FFHA applies directly to housing facilities, including HOAs. Under the FFHA, a HOA may not legally refuse to make reasonable accommodations in its rules or policies when such accommodations may be necessary for a disabled owner to fully enjoy and use her unit. An example would include when a disabled owner requires the assistance of a service animal; a HOA would be obligated to grant a waiver from its "no pets" rule. The HOA 's refusal to make such an accommodation (one that is reasonable and necessary to afford a disabled owner the full enjoyment and use of her unit) is deemed to be discrimination under the FFHA. The FFHA also requires HOAs to permit a disabled owner to make, at such owner's expense, reasonable modifications to the owner's unit and HOA common areas.
From some research, I discovered that a service horse is one that basically assists with mobility. There are also emotional support horses. Although I have not found the exact regulation, per guidehorse.com "It is a Federal offense for anyone to require documentation from anyone using a Service Horse, but people with an ESH are required to provide a doctors note, confirming a mental health diagnosis. "
It is important to note that the ADA applies only to "public accommodations." Therefore, a HOA will not be subject to the ADA unless the HOA is operating what can be considered a "public accommodation." A "public accommodation" is any facility which a HOA is holding out for use by members of the general public--not solely for use by the HOA's members and their guests. . . .
The FFHA is similar to the ADA; however, the FFHA applies directly to housing facilities, including HOAs. Under the FFHA, a HOA may not legally refuse to make reasonable accommodations in its rules or policies when such accommodations may be necessary for a disabled owner to fully enjoy and use her unit. An example would include when a disabled owner requires the assistance of a service animal; a HOA would be obligated to grant a waiver from its "no pets" rule. The HOA 's refusal to make such an accommodation (one that is reasonable and necessary to afford a disabled owner the full enjoyment and use of her unit) is deemed to be discrimination under the FFHA. The FFHA also requires HOAs to permit a disabled owner to make, at such owner's expense, reasonable modifications to the owner's unit and HOA common areas.
From some research, I discovered that a service horse is one that basically assists with mobility. There are also emotional support horses. Although I have not found the exact regulation, per guidehorse.com "It is a Federal offense for anyone to require documentation from anyone using a Service Horse, but people with an ESH are required to provide a doctors note, confirming a mental health diagnosis. "
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Tim,
As usual
As usual
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
As Tim said:
one that is reasonable and necessary to afford a disabled owner the full enjoyment and use of her unit
Are ponies, goats, pigs, etc. shitting at the pool area considered reasonable and necessary?
one that is reasonable and necessary to afford a disabled owner the full enjoyment and use of her unit
Are ponies, goats, pigs, etc. shitting at the pool area considered reasonable and necessary?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
OOPS..no edit
The animals shitting remark was mine, not Tim's.
Sorry for the typo.
The animals shitting remark was mine, not Tim's.
Sorry for the typo.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posts: 304
Posted:
Dear Kyle, If you have to ask this question then you are living in the wrong neighborhood.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/17/2014 4:33 PM
Are ponies, goats, pigs, etc. shitting at the pool area considered reasonable and necessary?
Are ponies, goats, pigs, etc. shitting at the pool area considered reasonable and necessary?
That would likely be for a court of law to decide.
I would also suspect that there are provisions in the law if a service animal poses a direct threat to the health or safety of others. The Department of Transportation in their regulations for service animals defines a direct threat to be:
A significant risk to the health or safety of others that cannot be eliminated by a modification of policies, practices, or procedures, or by the provision of auxiliary aids or services.
So perhaps the animal could assist the individual to the pool but not be allowed inside the pool area.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
The regulations set out four assessment factors to assist entities in determining whether miniature horses can be accommodated in their facility. The assessment factors are (1) whether the miniature horse is housebroken; (2) whether the miniature horse is under the owner’s control; (3) whether the facility can accommodate the miniature horse’s type, size, and weight; and (4) whether the miniature horse’s presence will not compromise legitimate safety requirements necessary for safe operation of the facility.
Defecating would be the term preferred by our moderator(s).
DavidB35 (Texas)
Posts: 19
Posts: 19
Posted:
Again, your nasty remarks are uncalled for-the OP simply asked a question.
Yes, the OP would get better information by contacting an assistance or therapy institue, depending on which type of support animal he is really asking about. Therapy vs assistance....
I expected more professional and educated replies to people's questions on this forum, not the unprofessional remarks I have seen...
Regards
Yes, the OP would get better information by contacting an assistance or therapy institue, depending on which type of support animal he is really asking about. Therapy vs assistance....
I expected more professional and educated replies to people's questions on this forum, not the unprofessional remarks I have seen...
Regards
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The stripes on a Zebra have a calming effect on me. Can I take a Zebra to the HOA meeting so I do not get upset at some my fellow owners who are fools?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 07/22/2014 11:23 AM
The stripes on a Zebra have a calming effect on me. Can I take a Zebra to the HOA meeting so I do not get upset at some my fellow owners who are fools?
The stripes on a Zebra have a calming effect on me. Can I take a Zebra to the HOA meeting so I do not get upset at some my fellow owners who are fools?
Only if it's a mini zebra.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
What's with the trend of service animal threads on the forums recently? Is there something going on out there?
Sadly, this isn't as interesting as the trend of posts from last summer where the guy was laying out outlandish scenarios and the daily commentators where biting the proverbial hook with honest replies.
Sadly, this isn't as interesting as the trend of posts from last summer where the guy was laying out outlandish scenarios and the daily commentators where biting the proverbial hook with honest replies.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyM3 on 07/25/2014 6:10 AM
What's with the trend of service animal threads on the forums recently? Is there something going on out there?
Sadly, this isn't as interesting as the trend of posts from last summer where the guy was laying out outlandish scenarios and the daily commentators where biting the proverbial hook with honest replies.
What's with the trend of service animal threads on the forums recently? Is there something going on out there?
Sadly, this isn't as interesting as the trend of posts from last summer where the guy was laying out outlandish scenarios and the daily commentators where biting the proverbial hook with honest replies.
There are a lot of people out there that think because their mean little ankle-biter makes them happy, it should get special qualification as a service animal or emotional support animal or some other similarly outrageous claim, and that they should be able to take it everywhere.
What better target than an HOA that has rules against pets.
Frankly, I think anti-pet rules, particularly those regarding size and quantity limits are ridiculous, but that doesn't justify the claims people make.
KarenC15 (Florida)
Posts: 118
Posts: 118
Posted:
I was recently advised that mini-horses are approved service animals and must be permitted in classrooms, businesses, etc. If it's a service animal, the office of Human Rights should be contacted to file a complaint if the board attempts to interfere. That office enforces the civil rights act in your state and they will step in legally. Google: Fair Housing Laws and you'll find out how to handle violations in your state.
Hatred is contagious, so one should work to avoid it.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KyleD on 07/16/2014 3:48 PM
Hi i was wondering how i could get approval for a trained therapy mini horse to be on my property? My last community the hoa was not strick about this but i have a felling that my new neiborhood will be.
Hi i was wondering how i could get approval for a trained therapy mini horse to be on my property? My last community the hoa was not strick about this but i have a felling that my new neiborhood will be.
What exactly is the purpose of this horse? I suspect it's not in a category covered by the ADA
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Karen,
A therapy animal and a service animal are two different things.
A therapy animal can provide healing to his or her companion or family, as well as hundreds of other people in a therapeutic setting – whether a hospital, a school or a retirement home.
A service animal, per the ADA, is trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. For example, some dogs are trained to pull wheelchairs, others are taught to alert to the sounds of the telephone, oven timers, alarm clocks, smoke alarms, and even a baby’s cry. Service dogs are not considered pets.
The OP specified that the horse was a therapy animal.
A therapy animal and a service animal are two different things.
A therapy animal can provide healing to his or her companion or family, as well as hundreds of other people in a therapeutic setting – whether a hospital, a school or a retirement home.
A service animal, per the ADA, is trained to provide assistance to an individual with a disability. For example, some dogs are trained to pull wheelchairs, others are taught to alert to the sounds of the telephone, oven timers, alarm clocks, smoke alarms, and even a baby’s cry. Service dogs are not considered pets.
The OP specified that the horse was a therapy animal.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
here is a link to a website that does a good job of summing up the difference between a service animal, an emotional support animal and a therapy animal.
http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/?p=22
http://2012.servicedogsfl.org/?p=22
NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216
Posts: 4,216
Posted:
Can someone explain to me what is the "reasonable accommodation" that the OP seeks. Is it just the ability to have the mini horse on-site? Does a separate structure need to be built? Is putting up with the smell of manure an accommodation? Etc.
My first questions are - What is the actual accommodation? And why should the request be considered reasonable?
My second question is - Why, if this was so important, are these questions being asked now after the OP moved in?
My first questions are - What is the actual accommodation? And why should the request be considered reasonable?
My second question is - Why, if this was so important, are these questions being asked now after the OP moved in?
Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.
🎯 You've read this entire discussion
Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:
- ✓ Ask follow-up questions
- ✓ Share your experience
- ✓ Get expert advice
- ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in here