Violation letter private?

EP: I talked to DPR this morning but didn't get a clear answer on this. Will call them back tomorrow.

Look... I think this is private information between HOA and violator. If the person who wants this information is trying to prove selective enforcement issues, then let them do it in court. These documents will be part of the discovery process to be turned over then if they are so dedicated. No need in making it available to all members because they have isues. So do not feel pressured to release this information.

Violation letters should be written so boring there should be no interest. They should be simple this rule violated, reference in the docs, and then punishment/resolution. Not very interesting and most likely obvious. This person is just trying to prove favoritism on who gets the notices. Which to them translates to selective enforcement. It translates to others a picking on them. It shows the court that your HOA does have a history of issuing violation letters to a variety of members. Which may show no selective enforcement involved.

I would keep them private and if they want to know... Go to a meeting where they are discussed or in the meeting notes.

Thank you for the input, I appreciate your time!

The Board members and the MC employees have a fiduciary responsibility not to disclose private information. What's private and what isn't private is debated heavily, but fiduciaries usually steer clear of disclosing anything that smells like privileged information.

Your HO has no such fiduciary responsibility. Releasing information to him could put you in hot water because you haven't taken appropriate steps to protect your membership from misuse of the info. Way too risky no matter what anyone says.

As Richard's clarification shows, in CA anyway, the names of who is called to a hearing, who is fined, i.e., matters of homeowner discipline are confidential. These are discussed only in executive session and the board votes on the matter in ES too. Nothing that occurs in ES especially names are ever subject to access by non-director owners in CA. I think that's true in most state, Esther. To make sure, though, check with your HOA attorney and/or read your state's laws on the topic.

Apparently, AL is different since Melissa states that if an owner wants to know about these private matters they can, " Go to a meeting where they are discussed or in the meeting notes." Makes it sound like the meeting or notes would name names, but I might misunderstand Melissa' advice.

So, in AL, Melissa, if an owner hadn't fixed an alleged violation, the owner must tell her side of the story--plead her case-- to the Board at an open meeting??

And if an owner was delinquent and wanted to ask the board for a payment plan in AL, that would be required to be done in an open meeting?

And in either case, the Board would deliberate and vote on these types of matters in an open meeting?

Some (most??) states protect HOA members' privacy & CA is one of them. Apparently AL does not protect HOA members' privacy.

What are you talking about privacy? We do NOT discuss names. What you paid is kept in a collections report but NOT made available to the general members. The Expenditure report is always made available to EVERYONE. All is discussed at the meeting in front of everyone. However, collections we had a policy of six months behind. So we as board members only looked at those. We let our members know we would be placing liens and taking action.

We as a board are elected to represent ALL the general members on daily operations of the HOA. The money in the budget is ALL members money. Which means we should be open with what and where the money is being spent. Feedback was welcome on projects or ideas.

I found the more open you are, the better things run. It is the hardest thing to not control everything when your in charge. I compare it to putting your checkbook on the dining room table where the whole family can see the household income. Each member then has a say on how it is spent. However, we all know the kids are out voted and we are not going buy all xbox games. The kids being the members who do not pay and the parents being the board.

It took a bit of time to get used to that concept. However, once you embrace it, things really work out. I workec as a fascilitator for my HOA not the controller.

How many homes are in your HOA?

No wonder people go to the state for help. A majority of voting America would like to see the government in more of our lives.

All I asked, Melissa, is do homeowners have any way to have their issues with their HOA/Board dealt with privately in Al??

Can you answer that question?

Esther I'm not an attorney but in my reading of the Florida statutes I can not see any exemptions for violation notices, however anything related to legal enforcement and certain information may be withheld.

720.303 Association powers and duties; meetings of board; official records; budgets; financial reporting; association funds; recalls.—

(5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.

(c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, records to be inspected, and manner of inspections, but may not require a parcel owner to demonstrate any proper purpose for the inspection, state any reason for the inspection, or limit a parcel owner’s right to inspect records to less than one 8-hour business day per month. The association may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including the costs of copying and the costs required for personnel to retrieve and copy the records if the time spent retrieving and copying the records exceeds one-half hour and if the personnel costs do not exceed $20 per hour. Personnel costs may not be charged for records requests that result in the copying of 25 or fewer pages. The association may charge up to 25 cents per page for copies made on the association’s photocopier. If the association does not have a photocopy machine available where the records are kept, or if the records requested to be copied exceed 25 pages in length, the association may have copies made by an outside duplicating service and may charge the actual cost of copying, as supported by the vendor invoice. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members. Notwithstanding this paragraph, the following records are not accessible to members or parcel owners:
1. Any record protected by the lawyer-client privilege as described in s. 90.502 and any record protected by the work-product privilege, including, but not limited to, a record prepared by an association attorney or prepared at the attorney’s express direction which reflects a mental impression, conclusion, litigation strategy, or legal theory of the attorney or the association and which was prepared exclusively for civil or criminal litigation or for adversarial administrative proceedings or which was prepared in anticipation of such litigation or proceedings until the conclusion of the litigation or proceedings.
2. Information obtained by an association in connection with the approval of the lease, sale, or other transfer of a parcel.
3. Personnel records of association or management company employees, including, but not limited to, disciplinary, payroll, health, and insurance records. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term “personnel records” does not include written employment agreements with an association or management company employee or budgetary or financial records that indicate the compensation paid to an association or management company employee.
4. Medical records of parcel owners or community residents.
5. Social security numbers, driver license numbers, credit card numbers, electronic mailing addresses, telephone numbers, facsimile numbers, emergency contact information, any addresses for a parcel owner other than as provided for association notice requirements, and other personal identifying information of any person, excluding the person’s name, parcel designation, mailing address, and property address. Notwithstanding the restrictions in this subparagraph, an association may print and distribute to parcel owners a directory containing the name, parcel address, and telephone number of each parcel owner. However, an owner may exclude his or her telephone number from the directory by so requesting in writing to the association. The association is not liable for the disclosure of information that is protected under this subparagraph if the information is included in an official record of the association and is voluntarily provided by an owner and not requested by the association.
6. Any electronic security measure that is used by the association to safeguard data, including passwords.
7. The software and operating system used by the association which allows the manipulation of data, even if the owner owns a copy of the same software used by the association. The data is part of the official records of the association.

No public shaming. It is called living in Adult world. We deal with things like adults. Privacy exists but not if you have people who demand their HOA operate OPENLY. I see people posting here all the time about their HOA having private, unnanounced, closed, or secret meetings. Well the opposite of that and meeting the fantasy world of those demands, lose privacy.

It would seem that people here do prefer handling HOA business with closed door policies over open door. It is much harder to be so open but worth it. I would rather have our members know what is going on than just assuming a whole bunch of fantasical stuff. If I say we do NOT have money to pay for something you request, I am going to hand you over the financials. You then resolve where the money is to come from. It is your money too. Most then get involved in the HOA or give up the idea.

Funny how many people demand what we do in our HOA with being open and following the rules gets criticized for doing so. I would even bring the rules to ALL meetings and any corespondence sections pointed out in quotes. It is what I think a HOA should be and applied it. Hard work and plenty of dedication. Never once was sued and apathy was due to things being trusted to be done right. People even told me that is why they did not attend meetings. The HOA ran really well for the most part and they had no reason to attend. How many here can say that?

I am sure she likes it that way too. Sorry, but in reality your business you have with the HOA is business with the HOA. It is all discovery in court eventually. Hard to prove ones case we did not follow the rules or did selective enforcement. We also did not do fines any ways. Simple discussion and showed the violations in the rule book got them to fix it. Funny how when people want you to enforce the rules agree when they are also aware they have to follow them too. Given a chance, most people will agree to live by the rules as long as everyone else is.

Just because it has to be revealed during a court discovery doesn't make it okay for openly reveal to the rest of the HOA.

The best guidance is to look to other similar not-for-profit organizations.

In California, much of the Davis-Stirling Act was modeled on the Brown Act. The Brown Act is for public institutions such as schools. For that reason, a good guide for what can be revealed and what should be in closed sessions is the minutes to a school board meeting.

Note what needs to be in a closed/executive session that isn't open to public.
Note how they record it. Usually it is something vague like a reference to the specific violation number/code.

The problem of making such information public prior or during a hearing is the possibility of defamation, slander or libel.

I am not a lawyer. I am a journalist. We're required to study media law, sunshine laws and privacy laws.

Apparently in AL, HOA boards may reveal to HOA members the names of people whom the board has fined for violations, what the violation was, etc. Apparently in AL, HOA boards can disclose payment plans that delinquent owners have entered into with the Board and those owners' names. In AL, it seems, no HOA owner has any right to privacy concerning their personal financial affairs.

Lawsuits was not the topic, Melissa.

Where did anyone say payment plans are not kept private and why is it an Alabama thing? We did keep collection reports ONLY with board members. We referred to everyone by LOT number NOT names. We stated simply the actions we were taking to collect. A letter? A lien? Foreclosure? Owners have a right to know what actions we board members were doing to pursue non payers. Considering we would be spending their money on certain actions. We had a 6month lien policy that we needed to adhere to. We did NOT willy nilly who we decided action was taken against.

I believe having a truly transparent HOA is the way to go. You want privacy then do not write letters to your HOA, do not attend a meeting, and not ask for one record. The information is all in there... The very things the HOA is required to document and you all believe you should have access to. Privacy? Close your door and pay your dues... You will get all you want.