Homeowner too poor for neighborhood

Started by DorothyO • 44 replies • 2271 views

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DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Howdy,
In my 42-home neighborhood, property values run between $250,000 on the low-end and $450,000 on the high end, with most around the $340,000 range. We have one homeowner who clearly cannot afford to live here. She has retained the house through two divorces and one near-foreclosure and refinancing. She has let her property deteriorate with a weed-infested lawn, overgrown bushes, broken fence gates, and cardboard where a window is apparently missing. She is consistently late with her annual assessments, with this year resulting in us (the Board) working out a payment plan for one time only. She made good on her first three payments but this fourth and final payment has yet to arrive. In the meantime, our second enforcement situation is the condition of her property. We have followed our enforcement procedures,(we do not use a fine system) from the first notification via phone call from me (President), and 14 days to reach compliance, to the second notification, which is written, and another 14 days for compliance, to the third and final notification, also written, with 14 days for compliance. To date, she weeded and mowed, but the same weeds have now grown back. Nothing else has been done. Her excuses for both infractions, non-payment of assessments and condition of property, have been: 1)being demoted last year, and a $20,000 reduction in salary; 2) two torn rotator cuffs; 3) a broken lawn mower; 4) no other lawn care appliances; 5)a teenage son who has to do school work instead of yard work (even though school has been out for one month); 6) depression, and 7) no help or money to pay for the maintenance and repairs that are needed.

Our enforcement procedures allows for her to have a hearing before the Board at any time between the first notification to the last, to discuss the issues. She has not availed herself of this. Now we are at the end of the time frame for compliance and she will be required to appear before the Board. My concerns are:

1) Her claim has been that she cannot afford to sell her house, and she doesn't make enough money to maintain the house according to the standards of the neighborhood (along with her other excuses about why she can't do it herself or find anyone to volunteer to help her without pay.) Any "help" she is offered, be it volunteer or monetary to bring her property into compliance, could most certainly not be repeated, or offered as a permanent solution. Placing a lien on her house won't bring her property into compliance. We would like to find a way to resolve this without preferential treatment, without contacting our lawyer and with reason and grace. Any suggestions before I bring the Board together to figure out a plan of action? Thanks a bunch, o' wise ones!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Dorothy,

I understand the sympathy and empathy you and other Board members may have for the individual.
The Board worked out a payment plan, she didn't follow through.
You have brought issues to her about the condition of the property, the repairs have not been made.

As a Board, you have a fiduciary responsibility to all members.

As a neighbor, acting on your own, you are certainly allowed to be neighborly and assist the individual any way you see fit. As you indicated, this is not a permanent solution and unless you, individually, are willing to assume the burden of her financial payments (as a neighbor). However, as a Board member you need to insist the issues are corrected.

The Board is always free to try and work out another payment schedule. However, since the payment schedule is likely less then the current assessments and the fact that the individual didn't comply with the last agreement, don't hold your breath that this agreement will result in resolving the problems either.

Placing a lien on the property ensures that the Association has some option of being paid if the property is sold. Foreclosing on the lien (which should be a last resort) would be done to stop the bleeding.

Tough Love here - if it were me, I (as a neighbor) would offer to assist her in repairing the property (perhaps even fixing or purchasing a new lawn mower). At the very least, I would be willing to mow her front yard once in awhile if she grants permission. As a Board member, I would enter into one last agreement - part of that agreement being that if all of the conditions are not met legal action would be taken. If she failed to comply with the legal action, I would definitely place a lien on the property and would strongly consider foreclosing that lien in the future.

What you don't want to do is enable her to remain a victim. There are always excuses. There are also organizations that can assist (her local church for one) if she wants to seek them out.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Tough Love here - if it were me, I (as a neighbor) would offer to assist her in repairing the property (perhaps even fixing or purchasing a new lawn mower). At the very least, I would be willing to mow her front yard once in awhile if she grants permission. As a Board member, I would enter into one last agreement - part of that agreement being that if all of the conditions are not met legal action would be taken. If she failed to comply with the legal action, I would definitely place a lien on the property and would strongly consider foreclosing that lien in the future.

What you don't want to do is enable her to remain a victim. There are always excuses. There are also organizations that can assist (her local church for one) if she wants to seek them out.

Tim,
I've thought of asking for volunteers to bring her property into compliance, but really do chafe at this. She was divorced three years ago. The first year she had someone doing her lawn, but never paid them, so they stopped. The second year was depression, missed work, demotion, less money. The third year is no money to pay for what she needs for the upkeep, whether it's a new mower and her teenage son to do the yard work, or paying a yard crew to do it. Every year it has been an excuse. I've thought of asking for volunteers to bring it into compliance just once, but keep coming back to the enabling/victim scenario. Hell, even coming up with a payment plan in the first place was something this Board has never done before, for anybody. And there are at least three homeowners who have been hit hard by the recession, either through layoffs (one hasn't worked for going on three years), fixed income, or other hardships. None have asked for the Board to cut them some slack. Even the homeowners whose house was gutted by fire the two weeks before assessments were due didn't ask for an extension. How hard is it to weed, mow and trim? I have a bad feeling in my gut in extending the association out to her again.

I guess what I am wondering is if it appears to an experienced HOA'er, such as those here, that we have extended ourselves sufficiently, based on what I've presented, and now are justified in going to the next level.

Dorothy

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

The first thing we do when a workout isn't working out is to check to see if the HO has any equity in the house. If market value exceeds the mortgage by a reasonable amount, then we'll continue working with the HO as long as we reasonably can. But if the HO has no real equity, we are much more inclined to flip it to the attorney.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/08/2014 7:36 PM

I guess what I am wondering is if it appears to an experienced HOA'er, such as those here, that we have extended ourselves sufficiently, based on what I've presented, and now are justified in going to the next level.

Well that is a different question then the one you initially asked:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/08/2014 4:44 PM
We would like to find a way to resolve this without preferential treatment, without contacting our lawyer and with reason and grace. Any suggestions before I bring the Board together to figure out a plan of action? Thanks a bunch, o' wise ones!

You can't really do both.

I look at it this way, the main objective is to collect the assessments. Therefore, I'm willing to waive charges (late, interest, etc.) providing the member is showing a willingness to pay. My association has often offered to waive charges if an account is brought current by mm/dd/yyyy. However, if the account isn't brought current, the charges stand, payments are applied first to charges and then to assessments and, if needed, collection efforts are escalated to the attorney.

As for maintaining the property, I do not think you should gather a crew together. Just offer to do what you feel you can and what you feel you should (as any good neighbor can do). Personally, I don't mind mowing my neighbors front yard as it keeps my property looking good as well. I also don't mind helping others who are willing to help themselves but need some assistance. I won't help those who won't try to help themselves, want others to do what they aren't willing to do or continually find excuses. But that's me.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I am of the tough love school... I would offer making payment arrangement to eliminate late fees or other additional charges if paid in full in a time period. It is after that I would go file the lien. A lien is not all that bad in this situation. They can still pay the lien off or it can be negotiated at time of sale. The HOA no longer would be adding fines onto the amount owed. It would automatically rack up allowable interest charges and money back for filing. It also sends a message to the rest of the HOA that you all will lien. We have a solid policy of 6 months behind we liened. It weeded out those who would not pay, refused, or ignored it.

Here is where I sound mean... Do not fall for the emotional hostage takers. Do not feel obligated to clean up or be judged as a horrible person. Do what you all feel is adequate but no more. You all know that line. The people who do make a comment about "doing something" let them! Consider them volunteering to do the job.They will find out why no one else is doing anything. In the mean time, the HOA should keep a lien on the property.

You can not live someone elses life. There will always be something. You also are a creator of your own circumstance to a point. She has to deal with things not others. Do what you all have to do to keep your HOA in the conditions you all choose.

Former HOA President

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Tim, indeed it is an entirely different question

! These things do tend to flesh themselves out. Melissa, we don't do fines.

Here we have two situations: 1) delinquent assessments and 2) condition of property out of compliance.

1) She signed a contract to pay her annual assessment in four payments. This contract was clear there would be no re-negotiating if any payments were missed. It would go straight to a legal recourse. There is no ambiguity nor question of plan of action here if we do not receive her payment tomorrow.

2) She has received three notifications and has had almost 8 weeks to bring her property into compliance in accordance to our enforcement procedures. This has not been done nor has she contacted the Board to discuss why. She is now required to appear before the Board. My inclination is this. Tell her she will bring the property into compliance by a certain date. If she doesn't, the association will do it for her and bill her. If she does not pay the bill, a lien will be placed on her house. She will also be responsible for all legal costs. All this, by the way, is spelled out in our CC&R's enforcement policy.

We will suggest she find a way to have use of a lawn mower and clippers and make her teenage son do the yard work. If she attends a church, ask around for handymen to fix her fence, or even her yard work if her son is as incompetent as she, to which all evidence doth point. Check out bulletin boards around town. We can offer her solid and reasonable courses of action, as a gesture. Perhaps she should get rid of that Lexus she drives. . . you know, stuff like that.

She is not disabled, nor elderly, nor infirm. She's just mentally, emotionally and physically retarded, and I mean retarded in the actual definition of the word, for it is an actual word, as in arrested development, and not a slur. I don't think the association will take too kindly to the Board bending over backwards to accommodate her.

I think I just needed to get some feedback from y'all to give some structure to my thinking, which is a combination of "more light, less heat," but ultimately, as Melissa said, "Do what you all have to do to keep your HOA in the conditions you all choose."

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/09/2014 12:13 AM

Melissa, we don't do fines.

I don't think the association will take too kindly to the Board bending over backwards to accommodate her.

Generally in an HOA, fines, liens, and goodwill area about all you've got to induce a change in behavior that you find objectionable.

If you don't do fines, then it's just liens and goodwill. In my neighborhood, bending over backwards could be seen either way by the members. Some would say tough love is the way to go. Others would say it's good to have compassion. It all comes down to style and practice. The membership gets used to what you do so long as you do it consistently.

As noted above, what we do consistently is check to see if the HO has equity in the house first before we make any other decision. The Board's responsibility is to collect the fees, and if we know the fees can be recovered from the RE we give more slack. It also avoids the risk of what I am reading in your emails - that you are making judgment calls about lifestyle. As a Board, I don't think that's our role regardless of what our opinions are personally.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/09/2014 12:13 AM

We will suggest she find a way to have use of a lawn mower and clippers and make her teenage son do the yard work. If she attends a church, ask around for handymen to fix her fence, or even her yard work if her son is as incompetent as she, to which all evidence doth point. Check out bulletin boards around town. We can offer her solid and reasonable courses of action, as a gesture. Perhaps she should get rid of that Lexus she drives. . . you know, stuff like that.

I do not think that the Association has any business in making suggestions on how a member meets their obligations. As Np posted, this can be perceived as judgement on lifestyle vs. an intent to help.

It's best to stick to the issues at hand:

1) Assessments - you owe them, will you pay them or do we escalate collection efforts.

2) Covenant Violations - they exist, will you bring the issues into compliance by mm/dd/yyyy or do we escalate enforcement procedures.

It is ok to offer options. For example: Monthly payments vs. quarterly.
It is not ok to offer suggestions. For example: You can sell your car to pay the assessment.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

In general, I would show as much generosity as the bank, utility company, and credit card company shows me when I can not pay. There is some wiggle room with them if you know how to negotiate. However, I still owe and they can still take...
Let the compassionate ones take on the responsibilty. Once the giving tree has given up its leaves, it dries up and drops on the house... Atleast have a lien on it when it does.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/08/2014 4:44 PM
Howdy,
In my 42-home neighborhood, property values run between $250,000 on the low-end and $450,000 on the high end, with most around the $340,000 range. We have one homeowner who clearly cannot afford to live here. She has retained the house through two divorces and one near-foreclosure and refinancing. She has let her property deteriorate with a weed-infested lawn, overgrown bushes, broken fence gates, and cardboard where a window is apparently missing. She is consistently late with her annual assessments, with this year resulting in us (the Board) working out a payment plan for one time only. She made good on her first three payments but this fourth and final payment has yet to arrive. In the meantime, our second enforcement situation is the condition of her property. We have followed our enforcement procedures,(we do not use a fine system) from the first notification via phone call from me (President), and 14 days to reach compliance, to the second notification, which is written, and another 14 days for compliance, to the third and final notification, also written, with 14 days for compliance. To date, she weeded and mowed, but the same weeds have now grown back. Nothing else has been done. Her excuses for both infractions, non-payment of assessments and condition of property, have been: 1)being demoted last year, and a $20,000 reduction in salary; 2) two torn rotator cuffs; 3) a broken lawn mower; 4) no other lawn care appliances; 5)a teenage son who has to do school work instead of yard work (even though school has been out for one month); 6) depression, and 7) no help or money to pay for the maintenance and repairs that are needed.

Our enforcement procedures allows for her to have a hearing before the Board at any time between the first notification to the last, to discuss the issues. She has not availed herself of this. Now we are at the end of the time frame for compliance and she will be required to appear before the Board. My concerns are:

1) Her claim has been that she cannot afford to sell her house, and she doesn't make enough money to maintain the house according to the standards of the neighborhood (along with her other excuses about why she can't do it herself or find anyone to volunteer to help her without pay.) Any "help" she is offered, be it volunteer or monetary to bring her property into compliance, could most certainly not be repeated, or offered as a permanent solution. Placing a lien on her house won't bring her property into compliance. We would like to find a way to resolve this without preferential treatment, without contacting our lawyer and with reason and grace. Any suggestions before I bring the Board together to figure out a plan of action? Thanks a bunch, o' wise ones!

Isn't this, in essence, the state of our economy. I see these situation all over the place. Came back from Las Vegas and a number of communities are in sad shape. Not justifying, just saying.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Oh, now I was not serious about suggesting she sell her car! As for the other suggestions for meeting her obligations, those came directly from CAI Common Ground on working with problematic homeowners. In fact, I believe our enforcement procedure is compassionate, generous and accommodating. If a homeowner still doesn't respond to that, then that's their choice. We will continue following our enforcement policy. Really, the main reason I posted was to get feedback on whether we needed to do more for this wayward homeowner, based on recent articles in various community associations networks on the Board's willingness to work with a problematic homeowner. Personally, I think we've done enough. No judgment of lifestyle ever came up in any communications with her. In explaining her situation to the Board, she brought up her son's school work as a reason why her yard was untended to, as well as all the other reasons for non-payment of assessments and lack of money for yard care. In fact, if there really had been a judgment of her personally, there would have been no accommodation for payment plan. But, that's not how we roll

.

Also, forgive my ignorance but how does one go about finding out if the homeowner has equity in the house, and how does that relate to a lien?

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

The Deed that was recorded at the local Registry of Deeds office should show the purchase price.
Mortgages (and often other liens against the RE) are also recorded at your Registry of Deeds office.
In many localities (at the County level in PA), Registry of Deeds information is now available online at no cost.
Subtract the mortgage amount from the purchase price for an estimate of how much the HO put down on the house.

You can check with any of the market valuation sites like zillow.com for an estimate of current market value.
Subtract the mortgage (and lien) amount from the market value for an estimate of how much equity the HO probably has in the house.

The mortgage recordings won't show the current balances on the mortgages, only the amount originally borrowed. So you will only have a rough estimate, but at least it will be based on something quantifiable instead of other criteria which could be construed as personal bias.

Our tolerance usually diminishes in direct proportion to our estimate of HO equity in the house.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304

Posted:

I feel badly for anyone who has been a victim of the economy but at some point you cut your losses.
I agree with all of the suggestions to follow whatever processes you have in place. If it has to escalate then so be it. Maybe it will help her to realize she can no longer afford to maintain her home and needs to move on or maybe she will make some new choices so that she can maintain her home.

I wouldn't advocate asking for volunteers on behalf of the HOA to go do work on an owners house. Always bear in mind that should a volunteer become injured on her property, the injured party could go after the HOA since they were volunteering on behalf of the HOA. It is one thing for a neighbor to privately help another neighbor but the scope changes when it is the HOA or a Board member asking for volunteers. The other concern is that you will create a situation where it then becomes expected that a bunch of volunteers will continue to provide their services to the owner. I totally see that happening.....

I see the same people in my neighborhood who claim to be in dire straits driving new cars, putting in pools, taking nice vacations, buying higher end goods like iphones and designer purses, dining out. In the meantime, their yards are a hot mess, the landscaping needs to be replaced, their walkways need to be cleaned, etc. The sad cries of "the economy has made life so hard..." has gotten old and tired when you see those same people living it up while in my own household, we have pared things down to meet economic challenges. I want to smack the one neighbor who regularly dines out and takes trips but admits to letting their homeowner's insurance go "because it was too expensive". The other crazy thing is the number of older, retired people in my neighborhood who are trying to maintain these big homes (which are better suited for a family) and then discussing how bad things are financially and how they can't afford homeowner's insurance, lawn maintenance, etc because they are on a fixed income. But they wouldn't dare downsize to a villa or townhome???

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/09/2014 9:35 AM

Really, the main reason I posted was to get feedback on whether we needed to do more for this wayward homeowner, based on recent articles in various community associations networks on the Board's willingness to work with a problematic homeowner.

Not everyone is aware of these articles. Perhaps you could provide links to them.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Tim,

1 - your original response is 'spot on'

2 - you are so polite, I like the expression 'toric ka-ka'

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

John,
Yes, it is always a pleasure to discourse with Tim. And it is his original response that mirrors what I believe our plan of action will be -- hire the work out, offer a payment plan, require continued compliance or turn over to attorney. We did receive her final payment for delinquent assessments yesterday, so she has honored her first payment plan. That's good enough for me, at least, to offer another, just to bring the property up to standard. Perhaps once she can actually see what it's "supposed" to look like, and get tips on how to maintain that, she will have that visual and a blueprint for continued care. At least, we will have done all we could possibly do in terms of helping her and the association meet our respective obligations, " 'torik ka-ka" notwithstanding.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

back to basics:

you are a corporation not-for-profit with covenants

NOT

a non-profit charity

i hope y'all spend as much time and effort maintaining / planning / operating / reserve funding as y'all 'apparently' spend in your (futile) attempts to 'help' the unfortunate destitute people who own homes inside an HOA

probably their cable and smart-phone bill are more than their assessments

get real and stop enabling those who can not or will not fulfill their contractual obligations

if one can not afford one's present 'mcmansion' one CAN always 'downsize'

tough love is still love

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Well, there is that John, and personally I am with you 100%. Unfortunately, this lady is a handful, who had the police out to her house for assaulting her first husband, spent her second husband's money shopping, sending the house into foreclosure proceedings, had the fire department put out a fire her non-too swift son (the fruit doth not fall far from this tree) started by tossing a firecracker into one of those aforementioned dead shrubberies, cries at the drop of a hat whenever confronted with her problems, channeling Tammy Faye Baker, and is an all-around head-case. Therefore, as a Board we are aiming to approach this problematic homeowner in a calm, reasoned, objective and non-threatening way, before we HAVE to approach her in a calm, reasoned, objective and THREATENING way through legal action. That way, in this new and definitely not-improved culture of entitlement and protected class of every sort imaginable, in which we now wallow, the Board won't be indicted for inappropriate response or action, should a court of law become involved. We will have extended ourselves as far as could reasonably be expected without compromising the association's integrity or standing. I can well-imagine a lawyer or even judge arguing that having offered her a payment plan for one violation, (delinquent assessments, which apparently is encouraged as a beginning salvo, but of which I am never in favor, unless clear and unambiguous circumstance may warrant such a waiver of rule), why not offer her another in order to close out this apparently "rough chapter" in this homeowner's life? Get her back on track. I'm not saying this wouldn't be absurd on its face, but it's Chinatown, Jake, when it comes to the current climate of "disenfranchisement" in our courts. So, our paper trail will be impeccable and our integrity and standing unimpeachable.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Dorothy

See if there is any information in this link:

http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20120522/PC16/120529783/1006/mount-pleasant-woman-tangling-with-town-again-over-yard-condition

The town took her to court.

RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154

Posted:

Who cares about all this drama?

You will likely find all this scintillating information about her 'problems', personal conduct, or past occurrences will have no bearing whatsoever.

Your case/issue is one of contract law... period.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

I don't give two flips about her personal problems. They are not the association's problems and we told her this. You do, however, always have to take into consideration a potentially violatile homeowner's response to something they may consider threatening to them. The Board must protect itself as well as the association against possible harmful retribution by being proactive over reactive. All HOA law that I am aware of requires the Board to hold a hearing with the homeowner to give that homeowner the opportunity to present their case for non-compliance BEFORE legal action is pursued. If a resolution can be reached to accommodate the association and the homeowner all the better. If not, bring in the lawyers. The recitation here of this homeowner's personal drama was just background for y'all, to let you know what type of homeowner we are dealing with in this situation. There is not such thing as a hothouse situation.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

John,
What about MY needs! Fightin' City Hall is she? Well, that's her story and she's stickin' to it, I guess. If my neighbor decided to fight City Hall she'd be fighting her brother on account of he's the Mayor. HA! Or was. He's actually come over and mowed her lawn, as has her brother. Happily, we are not at such a miserable, contentious stage, and hopefully, won't be. One thing that article does make clear is all the help she has been offered and received AND rebuffed. Clearly no one is at fault here but her violating city ordinances. Don't Tread on Me!!

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

in my 55+ HOA you either:

pay the assessment

or (if delinquent 180 days)

get foreclosed by the HOA

there is a well thought out and clearly defined collections / late fee procedure / policy in place ~ ALL HOs get EXACTLY the same PREDICTABLE process

1 - 'freebee' warning letter from treasurer after 15 days

2 - $15 late fee (compounded monthly) after 30 days and letter from BOD

3 - lien RECORDED after 60 days and letter from BOD

4 - attorney generated demand letter after 90 days + bill for his fee

5 - notice of intent to foreclose after 120 days + letter from BOD waiving late fees (not attorney fees) if paid in full within 72 hours (not 73, but 72)

6 - foreclosure proceedings after 180 days

for 126 homes in 25 years we have never proceeded past step 3

Try the above and see how quick people cancel their cable and dump their phone data plan and hairdresser appointment in order to keep the home ~ if not: goodbye and thank you for leaving so quickly.

Yep, us old folk have NO CORPORATE PITY WHAT-SO-EVER

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

The Board has decided to not pursue legal action. As for a lien, I thought liens were for monetary reasons only. If our homeowner owes nothing, a lien can't be put on her house.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

then evidently they have paid up including late fees and costs and are

GASP

CHOKE

members in good standing

Y'all need to have a PREDICABLE and UNIFORM policy in position for ALL members.

Y'all are not a charitable corporation.

Feel free to PERSONALLY pay her bills.

If covenant violations occur y'all need to take IMMEDIATE action BEFORE they become ongoing issues.

And before the BOD commits non-feasance. (non performance of their fiduciary duty)

CAVEAT EMPTOR

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/10/2014 11:17 AM
John,
What about MY needs! Fightin' City Hall is she? Well, that's her story and she's stickin' to it, I guess. If my neighbor decided to fight City Hall she'd be fighting her brother on account of he's the Mayor. HA! Or was. He's actually come over and mowed her lawn, as has her brother. Happily, we are not at such a miserable, contentious stage, and hopefully, won't be. One thing that article does make clear is all the help she has been offered and received AND rebuffed. Clearly no one is at fault here but her violating city ordinances. Don't Tread on Me!!

Dorothy

What I am saying is see if you can pass this off to the city, county, etc. Let them play the heavy.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Hey, are you tow Johns from California team-taggin' me here? Fun! No, listen, our association does not levy fines. We do assess a late-fee for assessments. But for covenant violations we have one initial personal notification from the President, and two written, all three notifications with time-frame requirements for compliance. We used to have fines, but learned that if a violation is not going to be addressed without a fine, it sure as hell is not going to be addressed with a fine. Now, I guess, had we had fines, we may be able to use the lien course to recoup the money. But I'm not even clear if (and my God I have scoured the Washington RCW's we can "sue" for "fines," which are not the same as late fees for delinquent assessments. I believe I am correct in my understanding that assessments, which are covered in the Bylaws, and covenants, which are covered in the CC&R's are two different animals when it comes to enforcement, though enforcement procedures do share similarities for sure.

Our homeowner is current on her assessments, so a member in good-standing (on paper

) She is in violation of our Covenant Article 9, Paragraph 2, in regards to the condition of her property, so not a member of good-standing. Upon the first complaint and notice of said condition, she IMMEDIATELY received the first call of notification, pursuant to our enforcement procedures for covenant violations, as well as immediate response via certified letter when each time-frame came and went with no compliance. Everyone here knows we address complaints, infractions, violations and all issues right away. We are predictable. We are uniform. We do not hesitate to enforce the rules and regs of our governing documents. We lovvvvvvvvvve our paper trails!!!

As for the city getting involved, her property is not a health hazard, nor in conflict with any city ordinances, nor an eyesore in any number of neighborhoods in the city. However, it is in conflict with and is an eyesore in our neighborhood.

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Dorothy don't you have Covenants? In your Covenants there is a sections regarding exterior maintenance. This explains what you can do to get the owner to maintain the grounds at all times in a neat and attractive manner. If the owner doesn't the Covenants specifically spell out what the Board can do.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Do we have Covenants? Really? Good grief.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

If a contract signer (member/owner) repeatedly violates the contract get a court order directing compliance.

You need to convince a judge NOT the internet posters.

Case closed.

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Everyone here knows we address complaints, infractions, violations and all issues right away. We are predictable. We are uniform. We do not hesitate to enforce the rules and regs of our governing documents. We lovvvvvvvvvve our paper trails!!!

Then how come y'all have a problem worthy of world wide web attention?

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Ahh, well, it's the other driver, isn't it? 3

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001

Posted:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh........

time for the Jabberwock to speak

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342

Posted:

Good grief then use them. Yes really.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I can be of no help here, Dorothy. But I enjoy the heck out of your wiring style!

And the two Johns aren't from my lovely state, but from SC!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Your WRITING style, too.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Kelly, wiring works . . . perchance I am wired to write! Thank ye kindly. And I MEANT South Carolina, for the two Johns, but Heavens to Betsy, out popped California!

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Ackkk --- Kerry -- not Kelly! Curses!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

S' OK; I get to see you have additional fun with your writing.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DorothyO on 07/11/2014 10:22 PM

for the two Johns ... out popped California!

What business did you say you were in?

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

DorothyO (Washington)
Posts: 293

Posted:

Housewife. Love that term. My original-card-carrying-member-of NOW-bra-burning-mother is no doubt a' tossin' and a' turnin' in her grave. Although, she would love the whole "President" 'thang, albeit a lowly HOA gig.

NpS (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 4,216

Posted:

You've probably got old bra-burner's spirit. Carry on.

Sikubali jukumu. Read all posts at your own risk.

DotV1 (Maryland)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Hi - been briefly running thru this specific subject - mine will come once I get use to the forum - - Maybe I look at it from a different aspect - I was in property management, been on my HOA board for about 20 years. One very important thing we did is have the vendor cut all the grass. We are a small townhouse group of 125 - but that one vacant townhouse sure messed it up for everyone - - if she is depressed I wonder what she is doing about it - if she cant work is she on workmens comp. The most important thing to me is if she is ____ or not/?? - ˆ use to be on a cris line many years ago when kids were going up - Our worse problem is developers that came in and bought rows of townhouses - - and felt they didn't t have to pay anything - - Keep Cool

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