Board can do ANYTHING THEY WISH

You pretty much summed up the wonderful world of HOA's. Very Good!

I hope that this website makes some sort of difference and people start to walk away from everything that seductively brings them to a HOA. I think a high rise condo must be the absolute worst even when I've never experienced one. A bad board or poor MC could bring it to ruin in short order. There have been plenty of complaints I've read on this website where requests and needs are ignored. Game playing boards, game playing MC companies exist, and if you are a good guy on the board eventually you'll be replaced by a jerk. When you can't rely on consistency and/or fairness, it's time to shut the system down.

Live independent ... Find the nice neighborhood where you only need to fight with the city or county. My family and I are not much when it comes to socializing. Adding another layer of government to chase after you is just not a rational thing to do. I pity those who have had homes foreclosed on more so when they live in an HOA ....

I would love to set up some sort of advocacy group for a HO not an HOA. It's the HO who needs support when the courts, contract and law all favor the Board, (we all know of Judges who don't follow the law as well) and it needs to be something that goes across the nation and can get in the face of State Legislators. HOs in HOAs are a large block of people who are ignored, and easily ignored bc we were seduced into a private contract ... And seduced we were.

The main reason there are bad boards is that most homeowners would rather complain than do anything about it, and they will RUN, not walk, if there is any chance they might get sucked into anything that would involve time and work on their part.

Unfortunately,

That is not always the case. When I attempted to get involved, the resistance came not from the Board, but the management company and the association's attorney, who not consult with the attorney for authorization.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.

Doug ... I think you are right. However 2 working spouses with children and aging parents and church etc rarely have any extra time. Jerks always find the time. This HOA had an excellent Pres when we moved in. He was an abrasive man but definitely wanted to do right and did. His minutes were painstakingly thorough. You could tell he had a strong moral fabric. But the Board now hates him and I still don't know why. I've never heard of a HO who doesn't like him even though he's abrasive. The poor man served for 4 yrs as President. And after reviewing the minutes, they won't let him change his mailbox to make it slightly larger, when several mailboxes are different In the community. From my perspective that is VERY personal and not objective. If each mailbox was the same then it wouldn't be an issue. As far as I know he does not complain. Too many in my neighborhood are seniors and don't want the anxiety.

As I said before, we don't socialize preferring to keep to ourselves. So other than my immediate neighbors ( seniors with health problems) I know very, very few. And I'm not a sales person. I used to go to the pool but I can't stand it as all the bullies who are either o. The board or friends of the board are there to put down just Bout everyone in the neighborhood. That's another thing about the Board I don't like. HOs who have been delinquent OR who have complained are openly discussed, and discussed to make them look bad.

Evil is triumphant. I wish so badly the two of us had decided against children, I worry terribly about what they will face.

This just arrived in my mailbox. I've been following this man prior to getting on my Board and he leaves me with the impression that it is all hopeless. Some of you may want to follow him. Talk about an effort to right a wrong ... This man is king

http://pvtgov.wordpress.com/2014/06/27/the-unclean-hands-of-the-hoa/

Er, no, Sally, the Board cannot just do anything dang thing it wants – they really do have to read the CCRs and bylaws and follow them. You didn’t provide the detail behind the discussion you attended, but it may be the attorney said the language in the CCRs might say something like the Board SHALL enforce, which depending on who you talk to (board members, other homeowners, other attorneys and a few judges), “shall” may not necessarily meant the board WILL or MUST enforce that part. I believe there was a separate thread on this website on that very discussion – you may want to read it. Then read your own CCRs and see what they have to say.

Yes there are lazy boards, but before you assume that’s true of all of them, try to remember that these are homeowners just like you, who have lives outside of the Association. When they meet, they have to do more than decide how to spend money or who to sue for delinquent dues. If you attend a few of these meetings, you will hear discussions on whether to approve or disapprove an architectural request form, which streets need paving more than others, a report on what happened at the last neighborhood association meeting where someone proposed bringing in some sort of small factory that may stink up the entire part of town or if the neighborhood crime watch should be revived because of a spat of robberies in nearby communities (or perhaps kill it to prevent another tragedy like Trayvon Martin).

They have to discuss all of that and then address various CCR violations, so at some point, it may be they need to decide what will take higher priority. I’m not saying CCR violations aren’t important, but you have to investigate and send out letters, and give the offending neighbor time to respond, and schedule appeal hearings – and maybe an alternative dispute resolution hearing if the neighbor refuses to comply because “it’s HIS house, goddangit, and he’ll paint it bubblegum pink if he wants to because he can!”

Richard’s second paragraph says it all – board elections are serious, and you have to pay attention to what kind of people you’re electing. If you don’t pay attention and elect people with integrity and hold them accountable, you wind up with a do nothing board at best and a rouge one at worst. Much like the city county, school board and even your church board of trustees. People are people and you have to decide if you’re going to fight or submit – I personally choose to fight if I have to, because in many cases, I don’t have a choice.

That said Richard, you’re wrong about the outside of your home – it is still your responsibility, although you’re not personally doing the work. The board members you elect hire the contractors who do the work and they still need to be watched to ensure the work’s done right. If the outside of your home turns out to be a hot mess, more money will have to be spent to fix it. And where will that come from? Look in the mirror! All you did was delegate the authority, but not the responsibility.

I’ve said this before and will keep on saying it – don’t like the board you have? Rally your fellow homeowners and get rid of them. And when you do, be sure you have people at the ready to step up and run the association the way you want it to. I fail to see how 5, 7, 9 or how many people make up the board can intimate 20, 50, 100 or more homeowners.

By the way, Sally, I get that there are demands on your time with aging parents and kids and all that stuff. However, each and every one of us gets 24 hours in a day, no more and no less. We can’t do everything in one day – even if we had 48 or 72 hours at a time, we would still miss something. It’s about setting priorities – and your board has to do the same.

For 10 years, I myself was my board’s newsletter editor….and treasurer (a huge job in itself)…and CAI representative. I probably spent 10-15 hours A MONTH on Association business and at one point I had a seasonal part time job that made for 12 hour work days. I have prepared the newsletter, driven to Office Depot to print it, walked around the neighborhood delivering it (sometimes in the cold or rain). I took time out of my day to attend CAI seminars on best practices for running HOAs. I also had to squeeze in time to deal with diabetes and sleep apnea (still dealing with that) and helping out in my church’s community garden.

I didn’t necessarily do all of that for a cookie – I wasn’t going to get one anyway, but I simply decided some things were important enough to make time for them. I’ll put up my board work against ANYONE in my community and so far, I don’t think anyone had a major issue with it because I would have heard something by now.

It wasn’t easy and still isn’t – but I brought my house at age 40 and this will likely be the only one I’ll ever own. You think I’m going to sit back wringing my hands while some a---hole does what he/she wants on the board, messing with MY most valuable possession? As Whitney Houston used to say “hell to the naw!”

As for you, it may be you just don’t have the time (or temperament) for board membership. When you’re rushed for time, it’s hard to suffer fools gladly (and there are a lot of them in HOA communities – and not all of them sit on the Board!) It may be listening and seeing the drama on the board in addition to everything else you’re doing is too much and you want to quit. If that’s the case, go ahead – not everyone is cut out for this, or perhaps this is not the right time for you.

However, until you move out, you still have an obligation to the quality of life and well being of YOUR home to keep up with what’s going on. It’s not always simple or pretty – developers basically tell everyone they’re selling carefree homeownership, when in fact there is no such animal.

If CCR enforcement is an issue or should be, talk to some of your neighbors (sorry, you’re a board member and sometimes, that’s part of the job). Ask what they think of the CCRs – maybe there are some that aren’t necessary anymore because no one’s particularly interested in it. If no one cares about the house color, maybe it’s time to amend that part of the CCRs.

Wow ...Sheila what a post! Thank you, thank you, thank you. Wouldn't I love to see you, Tim and a few others on my board. You are correct ... My personality does not fit a board ... Even if it was a good board, I don't think I am cut out for this. I have enough on my plate (although you seemed to have coped very well) and that makes me feel I adequate and guilty. My board is made up of highly ovEr-educated people who seem to lack basic common sense.

Do you know what I really want? I just want to come home, relax with my family, enjoy a glass of wine, celebrate July 4th and recognized I am in many ways a blessed person. When I see and hear what's going on with the Board it creates great anxiety for me and with kids if have enough already.

Have a wonderful 4th Sheila ... I appreciate your comments.

Seems the OP has painted each and every HOA with the same brush. Might just be a little drastic.

Funny how those who find the time to complain and suggest how things should be done never give any of their time to the cause.

Yes everyone does it wrong and in my view are lazy but my life is to busy to participate.

Time to leave the board and complain from a distance.

If memory serves those who wrote The Constitution advocated for citizens playing a role in their government. But you now have those who preach the fundamentals of the Constitution but run from participation to save face. Seems you can have it both ways after all.

I'm to busy and you are doing it all wrong....... That should work out well.....

Well, it's not a job for sissies, as you've found out. Trust and believe, you aren't the first who's sat through meetings and wondered if perhaps you aren't the one with rocks in your head! Unfortunately, there are a lot of educated fools out there - sometimes it seems the more book learning some people get, the faster they lose good old common sense!

I think everyone wants what you want - a clean, safe, attractive community with nice neighbors. We want our homes to be a sanctuary from all the BS and chaos of the world, but that doesn't just happen by wishing upon a star. It takes effort on everyone's part and as I said in another thread on this site, people can be lulled into a false sense of security when they move into a HOA community. They think someone else will deal with the crazy neighbors and inept contractors, but whether you live in a HOA community or not, it's up to the residents to decide what type of community they want to be and work towards that end.

In the end, it really isn't about being Wonder Woman or Superman - just do the job to the best of your ability and with some integrity. You can only be responsible for your actions and let the homeowners know what you're trying to do and why. They will either support you or stay home and hope for the best, only to act shocked, shocked, when things go to shit because of a bad board and they weren't holding them accountable. And when you've done all you can do, step away and don't have any regrets. You did what you could and that's a hell of a lot more than what some people will ever do.

Happy July 4th to you too! I for one plan to do a little grilling and drink a glass of wine myself (Malbec is amazing with steak!)

Well Salli not surprising to me you don't find my comments relevant after all you claim to have your hand on the pulse of every HOA in the country and are now in the position to warn people away or direct them to throw in the towel.

I removed a non-functioning board all by my little self without legal advise or the help of some great legal mind. All it required was the desire and motivation to replace some incompetent zipperheads with someone who could actually do what needed to be done.

Some people are just not up to the job. All they offer is excuses and explanations and in your case warning others to live under the same limitations they apply to themselves. Best you resign and spend your increased free time repeating the claims took to you that bringing about change is IMPOSSIBLE!
Sadly, for some it is. For others they refuse to take NO for an answer.

So please speak for yourself and the limitations you have set for yourself not the entire HOA community of which you certainly know very little.

If a lawyer says so it must be true.......

Well said.

Reminds me of he old expression that if you cannot handle the heat, the get out of the kitchen.

john ... Obviously you are an exceptional person with skills that many of the rest of us don't have. I'm glad you pointed out how exceptional you are, bc I never would have recognized that skill in your post.

I see this as a forum to bring to the attention the weaknesses in all HOAs ... Pardon me, except your HOA. please name it, so that everyone will know where to head. But john when you are long gone, will their be another john to replace you?

I believe it's in both my interests and the HOA interests for me to resign. You are correct I know nothing, and shame on me for trying to get up to speed by attending an HOA MC function who brought in a knowledgeable attorney. Maybe all those people are entirely wrong, but in my humble opinion I thought it was wise to go with what I learned VS just a SWAG.

It sounds like you just winged it. I wonder if the HOs in your community agree that you are as exceptional as you claim to be.

Banks ... Out of curiosity did you win the lawsuit or doped the HOA? I'd like to know it the attorney who spoke was correct in saying that most HOS lose and are stuck with all the costs.

*******
It's wishful thinking Tim. You can't rally people who don't want to be rallied, so the bullies prevail. We've lived here for 9 ys, and while I haven't attended every meeting prior to taking on Secretary, I've attended many. I went back the the minutes online and no one else has attended as many meetings as I have ... Which has only been 12. Those who did come to meetings, came because of an issue they wanted resolved ... Over eight yrs do you know how many personally attended meetings ... 5. And I bet they consider themselves to be involved and believe the Board is handling the HOA affairs in a fine manner.

I think it's really dumb to argue as Melissa has ... So sue the HOA, you're suing yourself. A person who threatens that is at the height of their anger and more emphasis needs to be placed on diffusing the situation than inflaming it. Once the words leave their mouth, when it's not diffused feel a need to follow through. Who does that create more work for?; he who hires an attorney to do the heavy lifting or the Bpard?

I think it's too much to expect that everyone has the backbone to sit on a board. Some people can tolerate the nuisance makers and some cannot. On this forum, posters need to stop shoving that at people. People know their limitations.

I wish a Board could be held accountable but they won't ever be ... Nobody seems to care, so evil is triumphant. I'm afraid that HOA situations will become much worse before they improve. Some States are being proactive, most are not. Standardizing CC&Rs and ByLaws would be helpful, but that's not a total fix.

And it's HIGHLY and I mean HIGHLY unreasonable when a Board member or forum members throw out that "if you don't like it, then MOVE". Again that's inflaming a situation, not diffusing it, and should a seller follow thru with that out of anger, they are more likely to sell on the cheap, which does what? Hurts the HOA.

My own personal board has created more problems than they've solved. I do appreciate the efforts of some, others are there for the glory. The ones who want the glory also are the bullies. Melissa? john? Are you listening?

Well, my experience shows it is more than wishful thinking, it can be accomplished.

So, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

Granted, and I've told this story before, it took over three years before anything happened once I started the rally call through education. In fact, at the point where I told my wife that if this annual meeting vote goes opposite of the way I was urging others to vote, I would quite the rallying. Surprises beyond belief, it wasn't me speaking but other members who were quoting the things I put out in my newsletter. This was the first time I actually saw that I had support and when changes started to happen. I was not elected to the Board that year, but the issue I was fighting against was defeated. The following year I was elected to the Board and that was when the real work started.

Let's look at similar examples ...

A buyer is looking at two identical homes ... One is inside the wall in an HOA with ltd amenities and one is outside the wall with no amenities. Both are 30 yrs old. The HOA discloses,to the buyer that they must comply with all the CC&Rs (unless you become my buddy, wink, wink) and tells them that there is some friction in the neighborhood with some owners, and oh, by the way, if you sue us, you are suing yourself. And then the Treasurer Comes out and says ... We don't expect you to whine we expect you to get on the board and fix things. And for this pleasure, we'll collect from you every month an assessment of $100. Don't bother asking questions, read the damn CC&Rs and by the way, they are only interpreted as I see fit and I only enforce what I want to enforce. Now stop your whining.

The buyer then looks at the 30 yr old identical house outside the wall, and while there are no amenities, there also isn't anyone shouting at them that they won't win in a court of law. When there's no tyrant at the helm, it's neighbor against neighbor and property rights law prevails. There is no HOA Board with RULES AND regulations, ByLaws and CC&Rs which are written to benefIt THEM, and is a private contract you have to overcome before property rights ever take precedent. In a 30 yr period each community has been equally maintained. Some homes are nicer than others.

Which one would you want to buy? I know now for sure, I would buy OUTSIDE the wall. I want as little interference in my life as possible ... HOAs if not, can be oppressive. It's better to live where I don't need to go with hat in hand to ask for permission. Deal with a county, while they will be horribly frustrating to, it's unlikely you'll have as much interference as you would with an HOA.

john and Melissa could you tell me why your experience is a better one?

Sally,

RIGHT ON !

YOU GO GAL !

A TRUE VOICE OF REASON !

I am still bleeding from the foot after 10+ years in a 55+ HOA.

(you know, where I shot myself)

Now that's funny.

Mike

I agree, Tim is the absolute best ... He reasons thru everything. However, what I have in my HOA is a Melissa and a john, who just keep repeating the same thing. I don't like my board, I will get off it. The OP started with what I heard at a mtg with the HOA, MC and RE atty making presentations and I walked out very discouraged, knowing that in reality a HO has little hope when they are up against any board, led by Tim, Mellissa or a john. Even when Tim is the best ... There is little hope in a legal dispute, period. The odds are that the HOA will win, so HOs should not even bother. They need to know the weaknesses of an HOA, any HOA and they need to consider alternatives. There is a 60 yr + history with HOs being bullied, whether it's a HR condo, a 55+ community or a TH/SFR Community. Many of the new posters on this site are whining yes, only to be shot down by Melissa or a john. They don't need that. They need reason and reason is NOT 'go ahead and sue, you're suing yourself', or 'stop whining, get on the board and start making changes' .

No weight can be given to HOs surveys who claim their HOA IS utopia, bc the questions are too subjective and include people who have not read their CC&Rs and people who would rather say everything is ideal than rock the boat. In HIGHRISES there are complaints about Christmas wreaths and menorahs on doors, the dog barks too much, you can smell urine in the hallway. In the 55+ community they are all complaining about the person who left the coffee grounds on the counter in the clubhouse and the diaper smell. In the SFR community with CC&Rs, they complain about the Arch chair who painted her home bright pink and it's not in the CC&Rs.

In the home outside the wall, in that nice neighborhood community, someone's kid might ride their dirt bike too fast, or someone might park their car on the front lawn, but then it's between you and them and property rights. You don't have layer upon layer of one or even two HOAs CC&RS you have to meet (private contract) and then maybe you still need to comply with a county as well. Forget it if you think any HOA will go to bat for you. To be outside a HOA simplifies life and if you want a pool, put it in, if the cost is too expensive use the county pool for a $1 a day.

So, I am not so much complaining as I am trying to address the reality and potential for horrors in an HOA. I use my board as an example because that's how many boards work. It's reality, not a complaint.

Thanks. I have no idea how my state would rule on something like this, but isn't it absurd that you and they would need to spend huge amounts of money on this.

Excellent resource and idea JeanneK.

I have spoken with Jim Lane recently - he appears to be very knowledgeable and very street-savvy about a whole host of HOA matters. Good luck!

Sally,
We are also planning our escape. What I have gotten out of the "HOA Lifestyle" is that while the concept seems to be nice, the execution of the idea is more often than not- dreadful. At the end of the day, your Association is shaped by your Board members. After this "experience", I will never again entangle myself legally and financially with the "HOA Lifestyle". I question as to whether HOA communities will become less desirable in the future or otherwise fall under stricter legislature with greater consumer protection. In the meantime, I am actively looking at MLS listings and if it says anything about "HOA fees" then I flip to the next listing. That is pretty much all you can do as a consumer.

Just a shout out for high rises. Ours in a major city's downtown, is 13 y.o. and in great condition. Why? We have a good Board & a good onsite PM. And if our board screwed up, Homeowners would be all over us like a cheap suit.

To be sure some people prefer the 'burbs, but, my husband & I love our lock & leave, car-rarely-needed city life that we've enjoyed for almost 10 years now. I'm acquainted with folks form several neighboring high rises, and they love their lives too. We all, of course, are in HOAs.

I think that Sally has some other negative urban biases that have nothing to do with HOAs.