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RossM (Ohio)
Posts: 1
Posted:
I have an ethical dilemma I could use some input on.

Our HOA is 10 years old. The previous board had been the same 3 guys all in their 80's & 90's for the last 10 years.
In March a new board was elected due to massive complaints and "Us Vs Them" attitude of the board.

The new board has been overwhelmed discovering all the maintenance issues, bad contracts, no money in the reserve account etc.

In addition, one of the 4 buildings has serious structural damages including walls, floors, ceilings cracking, foundation shift etc.

The New Board in all their wisdom voted not to find out what was causing all this because it was too expensive and may give the HOA a bad reputation! It was just revealed via state audit that the HOA's reserve account is only 7% funded! (short by $200K)

This all happened this week. So guess what the HOA President does... quietly lists her condo and resigns from the board!!!!!!! She stated she is not going to tell any buyers about the structural and financial condition of the HOA (she lives in the building with the structural issues)

Thats not right by any stretch of the imagination!

Should I say something and to whom???????
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Ross,

I first noted that your posting count is Zero, suggesting that you have withdrawn from this forum. Your state is also not shown.

Are you on the new board or were you on the old one?

Your association has been mismanaged to death. Your old board sounds like a typical BOD: they knew nothing about running an association and were unwilling to learn. It sounds like even if they were aware of some of the problems that they were afraid to raise assessments to cover costs.

The new board has few good choices. The best choice would be to grow a pair and raise assessments to cover the costs of finding out what is wrong and what it will cost to fix it. This course of action will win the board few friends but maybe a few owners will understand that since they let the old board have its way for a decade they, as much as the ex-directors, are to blame for the problems. Maybe some will also realize that if left unrepaired the value of their homes will dwindle to nothing.

As far as the president's sale, I am not sure what to advise. Some states require making a full disclosure when selling and some require none at all. If your state requires disclosure of defects, the person with the most to lose may be the realtor if they knowingly participate. Contact him or her and find out what is being disclosed and what is being hidden. Get a copy of the disclosure if possible. If you feel the disclosure is false or misleading, complain first to the broker and then to the state real estate commission.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
If you are asked, answer honestly, otherwise MYOB.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 06/14/2014 5:29 AM
If you are asked, answer honestly, otherwise MYOB.

I agree. Not your business unless you are asked.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
MYOB = Do not get involved = apathy

This is pretty much what got these people into trouble, wasn't it? They bought into communal housing and minded their own business when they should have minded the condition of their property.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> She stated she is not going to tell any buyers about the structural and financial condition of the HOA (she lives in the building with the structural issues)

Most states have a disclosure form that needs to be completed by the owner when listing for sale. Inaccuracies, incomplete answers, or outright lies open the owner up to a major lawsuit by a purchaser.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 06/14/2014 6:55 AM
MYOB = Do not get involved = apathy

This is pretty much what got these people into trouble, wasn't it? They bought into communal housing and minded their own business when they should have minded the condition of their property.


I disagree. The owners ignored their business when they should have been minding it. The finances of the association and the condition of the infrastructure is the business of all of the homeowners, and they were ignoring their business. Unless asked, the relationship between another owner, their Real Estate agent, and potential buyers is not the OP's business.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Agreed. In my state, it is the seller's responsibility to give the buyer full disclosure and to provide the deed restrictions. It is not the Board's responsibility UNLESS the buyer or their agent is requesting additional information.

What you have offered is exactly one of the things I mentioned on another thread about "amenities". We also have Board members who are older, retired, on a fixed income, and are not making sound financial decisions on the behalf of the community as far as maintenance and repair.

In the OP example, it is what it is and at least you do now have some power to fix the real problems. Unfortunately, nobody is going to like the ideas of special assessments and also raising the assessments to play catch up. Just be honest and bring factual, undisputable information to all owners that support what you are going to need to do at this point. Good Luck!
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 06/14/2014 7:39 AM

Posted By LarryB13 on 06/14/2014 6:55 AM
MYOB = Do not get involved = apathy

This is pretty much what got these people into trouble, wasn't it? They bought into communal housing and minded their own business when they should have minded the condition of their property.


I disagree. The owners ignored their business when they should have been minding it. The finances of the association and the condition of the infrastructure is the business of all of the homeowners, and they were ignoring their business.

Is that not what I said?

Quote:


Unless asked, the relationship between another owner, their Real Estate agent, and potential buyers is not the OP's business.

The ex-president is planning to commit a financial fraud by knowingly concealing defects and she has involved numerous others in her scheme by announcing her intentions. If the OP wishes to avoid prosecution - both civil and criminal - he is required by law to report the seller's scheme. It is his business because the ex-president made it his business.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
It's the seller's ethical problem (not dilemma), not yours, Ross. If in a full-disclosure state like Calif., let the buyer sue the seller.

Meantime, you have far more serious problems, haven't you? There's a vacancy on the board, so volunteer to fill it! Or gather others to urge someone to fill it! Offer this person your full support.

There's a lot of work ahead, which will certainly require an increase in regular assessments and a special assessment too.

While it's probably too late now-after 10 years-- someone should check to see if the developer can be held responsible for what sounds like construction defects in that building.
SallyR3
Posts: 113
Posted:
Total agreement with Larry! I would think if this isn't disclosed to a buyer, that the Board is also exposing itself to a lawsuit ... Depending of course what the State Statutes are.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
If you are on the Board, from the Boards standpoint, they need to make sure that this info is included in any disclosure requirements. That is the limit of the Boards responsibility (as far as the individual selling their property).

If you are not on the Board and just someone who found out these plans, you indeed to have an ethical issue. Some will say it's none of your business and, to some extent, this is correct. Some will say that you have a moral (not legal but moral) obligation to let your potential neighbor know of the issue. To that end, you have to make your own decision. If you chose to become involved, a simple letter to the listing agent would likely be all that is required.

However, there may or may not be legal ramifications (and mind you, I am not an attorney)if you do involve yourself and cost a deal to fall through.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Side comment:

If, as the number of postings indicate, you joined the forum, posted the question and then resigned from the forum - I think that this too is a bit unethical.

It can also indicate troll type activity. At the very least, it indicates no real desire to discuss the issue.

Of course, if anyone wants to consider a conspiracy theory, perhaps the user name was created by a regular poster for the sole purpose of being able to argue with themselves.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I sorta had that troll hit too, Tim, but replied anyway for reasons that you probably can figure out.
PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:
'google' code of Hammurabi #831

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