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StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Our lawyer previously told the board to not approve fireworks in the neighborhood, but I see other neighborhoods doing it without problem. What are your thoughts?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 06/06/2014 12:45 PM
Our lawyer previously told the board to not approve fireworks in the neighborhood, but I see other neighborhoods doing it without problem. What are your thoughts?

Liability, liability, and more liability.
PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:
unless the covenant(s) restrict fireworks

IT IS NOT THE BOD's CONCERN

unless, of course, you wish unauthorized rules to be ARBITRARILLY imposed at their discretion

of course, the BOD should NOT 'approve' any action AT ALL

if the action is not 'covered' by the CCRs - not their concern anyway

if the action IS 'covered' they have no need or authority to 'approve' it

if restricted IT IS RESTRICTED
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Dont discuss it at all. Liability. Refer any homeowner questions to city/state officials.

If you create rules, your in charge of enforcing them. If someone gets hurt, the lawyers will go after you for non-enforcement.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
It is a city law for us not an HOA issue. City restricts it. Our homes are too close together and a huge fire hazaard if we had fireworks. Which people have done in the past. It nearly destoyed our pool and pool filter. They landed there and it was a mess.

Former HOA President
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 06/06/2014 12:45 PM
Our lawyer previously told the board to not approve fireworks in the neighborhood, but I see other neighborhoods doing it without problem. What are your thoughts?

Lawyers specialize in worrying about everything that could go wrong without ever evaluating the probabilities of any particular scenario.

I am puzzled by the part about approving fireworks. Do your CC&R's give the association the power to approve fireworks? Who is seeking approval? Are they seeking approval to put on a fireworks show on your common areas? Or is there a pending item for the association to put on its own fireworks display?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 06/06/2014 12:45 PM
Our lawyer previously told the board to not approve fireworks in the neighborhood, but I see other neighborhoods doing it without problem. What are your thoughts?

I am curious now about how or why this question was ever asked of the attorney? Was there some expectation of a different answer? Did someone really think the attorney would advise, "Yeah, go ahead and shoot off all the flaming airborne explosives you want because there is no risk and no liability?"
TinaS9 (Florida)
Posts: 10
Posted:
There are a lot of cities that ban them yet residents still shoot them off with impunity. They know their chances of getting caught are slim to none these days. Cash strapped cities just don't have the $$ to police the city and hand out tickets. I've lived in a few cities that allowed them and they had allowed hours and still people would be shooting them off at 1am waking up the entire neighborhood. Unless an HOA has the power to fine residents I don't see them stopping them.
StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Last year a resident asked for approval from the board for a fireworks show, and it was sent to our lawyers. Of coarse it was not approved due to liability issues. I'm just wondering how other neighborhoods are able to do it. Another question. One of the neighbors is going to do some small fireworks. If I show up as the President, will that make the HOA liable?
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
If I show up as the President, will that make the HOA liable?


Only if someone contests it or someone gets seriously hurt. Layers dont care.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Personally, I'd leave the fireworks to the professionals....... penalties are too high..

Indiana law states:

A. A person who uses consumer fireworks at any place other than the 3 options listed in 2c or at times other than those listed in 2d,commits a class C infraction that may result in a maximum fine of $500 per infraction. More than 1 infraction in 5 years may constitute a change of a class C misdemeanor, punishable by imprisonment up to 60 days and a maximum fine of $500.

B. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally uses consumer fireworks and damages someone elseโ€™s property commits a class A misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment up to 1 year and a maximum fine of $10,000.

C. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally uses consumer fireworks and causes serious injury to someone else, commits a class D felony punishable by imprisonment from 6 months to 3 years and a maximum fine of $10,000.

D. A person who recklessly, knowingly, or intentionally uses consumer fireworks that causes death, commits a class C felony punishable by imprisonment from 2 to 8 years and a maximum fine of $10,000.

E. A person less than 18 years of age who possesses or uses a firework when an adult is not present and responsible at the location commits a Class C infraction that may result in a fine of up to $500 per infraction.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 06/08/2014 8:10 AM
Last year a resident asked for approval from the board for a fireworks show, and it was sent to our lawyers. Of coarse it was not approved due to liability issues. I'm just wondering how other neighborhoods are able to do it. Another question. One of the neighbors is going to do some small fireworks. If I show up as the President, will that make the HOA liable?

I think the board would be foolish to approve the fireworks, and possibly outside the bounds of their authority (depending on your documents) to prohibit them. Are you sure the fireworks in other neighborhoods are approved by the HOA? In my association, the docs don't say anything about fireworks, I don't think anyone has ever requested permission to use fireworks, and every year plenty of people do. It would seem like a law enforcement issue to me, not an HOA issue.

Not sure what you mean by "show up as president". Can't you show up as a "homeowner" and watch the fireworks? If anyone asks, just say you left your "presidential beanie" at home so you are just a neighbor. IANAL, but assuming your aren't wearing the beanie, I don't see how you watching would make the HOA liable for any problems that occur. Worst comes to worst, carry a clipboard and tell any nosy neighbors that you are taking notes so you can put the offenders on "double secret probation".

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
If anyone asks, just say you left your "presidential beanie" at home so you are just a neighbor.


If your HOA docs say nothing about fireworks, you can neither forbid, nor approve their use. Stay out of it.

If your HOA specifically forbids fireworks, you are present enjoying them, and someone gets seriously injured or dies, your in for a world of hurt. Is 4 minutes of fireworks worth a lifetime of financial pain?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 06/08/2014 8:10 AM

One of the neighbors is going to do some small fireworks. If I show up as the President, will that make the HOA liable?

One is not liable until a court finds that he is.

If you know that the host will put on a fireworks show and you know the fireworks are not legal, your presence could be seen as an endorsement for, or participation in, the fireworks show, The same issue would arise if you knew the host was going to serve alcohol to minors or the host will be passing around joints. The likelihood of creating a liability is small but it does exist. Because you are an officer of the association, your presence where you expect illegal activities to occur might be enough for a jury to conclude that the association may be liable. Therefore, as long as you are president of your association you should avoid attending the private fireworks show.

StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
That's what I was thinking too. I don't think I am able to just take off my president hat for an evening.
StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
When I was a kid, I loved July 4th. We all went to the neighbors house, and he set off fireworks. It was a fun thing that everyone did together, but we just don't live in that world anymore.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 06/09/2014 5:33 AM
That's what I was thinking too. I don't think I am able to just take off my president hat for an evening.

That's what I'd do. If you are concerned about liability, take a clipboard and tell nosy people you are looking for potential violations.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is the deal as being president or even board member of your HOA. Your going to be be "judged" for everything and anything. Sometimes it is just yourself that may judge. You now represent the HOA the moment you take the job. Whether your at home or at the meetings. That is why I always advise that when you take the job, live and breath it but don't forget to breath. You have to live...

So make your own judgement on how live...

Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Here is the deal as being president or even board member of your HOA. Your going to be be "judged" for everything and anything. Sometimes it is just yourself that may judge. You now represent the HOA the moment you take the job. Whether your at home or at the meetings. That is why I always advise that when you take the job, live and breath it but don't forget to breath. You have to live...

So make your own judgement on how live...

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
When one becomes a member of the BOD they are no longer at liberty to fire from the hip, say what is on their mind, etc. as many assume it is the BOD speaking. One does lose some freedom, openness, sociability, being one of the gang, etc. It is one of the prices of "command" that one pays.

Hope this helps.

PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:
If your HOA docs say nothing about fireworks, you can neither forbid, nor approve their use. Stay out of it.

If your HOA specifically forbids fireworks, you are present enjoying them, and someone gets seriously injured or dies, your in for a world of hurt. Is 4 minutes of fireworks worth a lifetime of financial pain?
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I agree with those who say it's best to stay away. We board members cannot always do or say what we wish. As JohnC put it, it's the price of command.

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