HOA and Satellite Dishs

Hi

For some background info, These are all townhouse that share a common exterior insurance policy.

History when I first move in 2005, I submitted an ARC form for a sattelite dish and never heard back.
Some time last A previous Board President check the installation and said the disk was below the roof line and okay.
The wiring for the dish goes down the side of the house (firmly attached by a professional installer)
. HOA wants the wiring removed.

My unit does not have an attic (There is a crawl space across 6 units but no access or holes from inside the unit.
, just a concrete slab covering between my unit and the crawl space.
This crawl space is currently inhabited by Bees.(Association is claiming the crawl space is not a common area and will not removed).

The Management Corp said the drill a hole if roof and then go into the crawl space and drill a hole in the concrete slab into the unit and claim they will remove the dishes if the wiring on the side is not removed and ARC form not filled out.

Does this violate the Telecommunication Act of 1996?
What should I do? The management Company is not being helpful, and no answers from the Board.

My HOA recently sent out of a letter stating:
" SATELLITE DISHES and/or OMG DISHS: you computer the enclosed ARC form and return back to us at the address listed below and the follow the instruction page for all SATELLITE DISHES and OMG DISHES.if you do return the ARC form by Jun 30, 2014, the Association will have all satellite dishes and OMG dishes removed at the homeowners/residents expense for that unit. Also anyone who has install an OMG DISH is now responsible for any and all roof repairs or diames to their unit, since approval was not given and importer installation was done casuing a void in the roofing warranty for your unit. As per the insurance company which protests the Assoiciation for Hazard and Liability for the exterior of the units all satellite dish wires must be installed inside of the unit and run through your attics.and all satellite dishes cannot be the tops of roofs they must be installed on the back of the units not to exceed past the roof line for the wind load specifications. There cannot be any exposed or cables lying or hanging from the walls or on the roofs, this will void our insurance and roofing policies. You will have intill JUNE 30, 2014 to correct these insurance violations, if not the Association will have all Satellite Dishs, OMG dishes removed and all wires remove to protect the Association from any claims or liabilities and these charges will be assessed to that unit. PLEASE CONTACT YOUR SATELLITE DISH CARRIER TO MAKE THE PROPER INSTALLATIONS TO YOUR UNIT AND CORRECT THE INSTALLATIONS VIOLATIONS.

Fred I would suggest you do a web search for "otard rules and regulations", generally speaking a HOA cannot have restrictions that impair a person's ability to install, maintain, or use an antenna covered by the rule. The rule applies to state or local laws or regulations, including zoning, land-use or building regulations, private covenants, homeowners' association rules, condominium or cooperative association restrictions, lease restrictions, or similar restrictions on property within the exclusive use or control of the antenna user where the user has an ownership or leasehold interest in the property. A restriction impairs if it: (1) unreasonably delays or prevents use of; (2) unreasonably increases the cost of; or (3) precludes a person from receiving or transmitting an acceptable quality signal from an antenna covered under the rule. The rule does not prohibit legitimate safety restrictions or restrictions designed to preserve designated or eligible historic or prehistoric properties, provided the restriction is no more burdensome than necessary to accomplish the safety or preservation purpose.

From the FCC Q&A on Otard:

Q: If I live in a condominium or an apartment building, does this rule apply to me?

A: The rule applies to antenna users who live in a multiple dwelling unit building, such as a condominium or apartment building, if the antenna user has an exclusive use area in which to install the antenna. "Exclusive use" means an area of the property that only you, and persons you permit, may enter and use to the exclusion of other residents. For example, your condominium or apartment may include a balcony, terrace, deck or patio that only you can use, and the rule applies to these areas. The rule does not apply to common areas, such as the roof, the hallways, the walkways or the exterior walls of a condominium or apartment building. Restrictions on antennas installed in these common areas are not covered by the Commission's rule. For example, the rule would not apply to restrictions that prevent drilling through the exterior wall of a condominium or rental unit and thus restrictions may prohibit installation that requires such drilling.

Here we go again. HOAs and satellite dish restrictions.

First, the FCC prohibits associations from requiring prior approval because, in their view, it results in unnecessary delay.

The FCC does permit restrictions for legitimate safety reasons, but the restrictions must state how the safety concerns can be mitigated. Also, if you will take the time to read some of the previous FCC rulings you will discover the FCC is very good at determining when safety concerns are really aesthetic concerns in disguise.

The burden of proof is on the association to show that their restrictions are based on valid safety concerns. My guess is the association would have to prove how they determined that damage from a windstorm was likely.

My recommendation would be to petition the FCC for a ruling and then inform the association that removal of your satellite dish prior to a ruling from the FCC would be at their expense and that if the ruling should be in your favor the association would be required to replace it, also at their expense. If the FCC should rule in favor of the association you would comply with the ruling within the time frame allowed by the FCC.

Not true.

You may file the petition yourself by simply stating the facts in a letter. You should include copies of any documents that apply. You do not need to hire a lawyer. Your costs are only the cost of obtaining copies and postage to mail everything to the FCC at the address given on their website for filing petitions. The time is how much time it takes you to write the letter and gather the necessary documentation. That time is either worth it to you or it isn't.

The association is not required to file a petition nor should you expect them to. There is nothing for them to gain in doing so. They are driving the events unless you are willing to challenge them. If you will take the time to look at the opinions and rulings you will find that most petitions have been filed by homeowners or renters - not by associations.

Do nothing and the association will likely proceed as they have stated. They have no reason not to unless you to take the initiative to stop or delay it. You can try sending the association a letter with the appropriate FCC information, but that will likely take as much time as filing a petition to the FCC. Then, you have to rely on the fact that it will cause the board to think differently, but that's not realistic because you have no clout; the FCC does.

The HOA document does not have clear definer "common areas" defination.
Nor does it even use the term "exclusive use" except for inside the unit and limited common areas is not memtioned.

These are townhouses,
Some of the townhouses(1/4) do not have attics, instead have a crawl space above each unit's conrete slab.
(Crawl space is accessible only through a hatch on the roof on the other side of the building(6 units down).

Other townhouses(3/4) (Owned by Board members) have a wood roof with access to an attic space.

The HOA docs do not account for this, nor is the "exclusive use" and limited common areas" defined.
The does do say you can mount a satellite dish with Board approval but does not say where.

All of the units were wired for Comcast when built.

OMG is a local inter proivder that uses a extenally mounted antenna for the internet.
(I think the misinstallation of these antenna's is what started this whole thing).
These are also protect under OTARG?

FredF4;

depending on your exact location in Florida your 'dish' may need to withstand a 150 mph wind gust for 3 seconds

should it become airborne during a wind event and damage other property, will YOU pay the damages in full ?

I doubt that it actually meets code

juuuuust perhaps your HOA is actually doing a good job

> The HOA document does not have clear definer "common areas" defination.
Nor does it even use the term "exclusive use" except for inside the unit and limited common areas is not memtioned.

It would be surprising if this were not clearly defined, as this determines responsibility for maintenance, etc.

> Any help here?

I think you need to help yourself by (1) reading carefully and understanding your association documents and (2) doing this same with the FCC OTARD rules.

No shortcuts here, unless you want to pay someone to do it for you.

ps.

most HOAs are the victims of:

"Self inflicted volunteerism"

This started where a local internet provider(OMG) puts up antennas which damaged the roof tiles,
There are also a number of unused dishs with wires hanging.

Currently the HOA docs (from 1995) require ARC(Association committee) approve to get dish installed.

Now, the HOA is putting down rules for the installation of satellite dish and internet antenna.
The say the dish(or antenna) needs to be below the roof line
and all wires cannot be on the roof or sides of the building,
All wires must go through the attic.

They say they will remove any EXISTING dish or antenna that does not meet these rules.
They require approval for any new and EXISTING dish or antenna.

Putting in rules and guidelines for new installations, which do not violate the 1996 act or OTARD
is legal for hoa

But Removing the existing dishs in use violates the OTARD and 1996 act?

In 2005 I submitted the ARC before installation (when applied to the HOA),
Never received a reply and 6 weeks later, had the disk installed.
Dish is installed below the roof line.
But since my place does not have an attic,
(and the crawl space in place of an attic I am not allowed to use)

I had the dish installer come over to see if anything could be done.
Since the existing comcast cables are being used for internet, they cannot e used for both.
There seems no way to completely remove the wires for the side of building.
(I had the installer buying the cable and secure the wires as much as possible)

There does not seem to be any way for me comply with these rules and keep the dish.

Say, PitA, I want to change my display name, but can't figure out how to do it. I went to profile, to my account, etc. I asked for help and was told, that as a free service, they'd get to me eventually. Completely understandable. I know you changed yours recently. Can you help me? Please don't DOH me! Thanks.

There may have been a BruceF (no number) at one time, but I haven't seen any other BruceFs. So, I ended up with BruceF1. I guess I'm still the only one.

We have three people named Bruce in our community. At one time all three of us were on the board. We were known as Bruce 1, Bruce 2 and Bruce 3.

I wanted to be reincarnated as a kinder, gentler person, Tim--just like PitA. See, he even typed "doh" instead of "DOH!" I'm looking for a similar transformation ; )

Carol..it that you....LOL

Why change names? Pita was nice enough to do so as he and I were being confused but I have never confused you with someone else....except Melissa........LOL

I was told there is not much that we can do about satellite dishes. We can make homeowners move exterior wires and I am told that if a dish causes damage to the roof we can ask them to pay for it, but we cannot make them fill out an ARC request or ask them to remove it, because that restricts their access to public television waves.

Perhaps your Association isn't up to speed on the new laws. I only found out about it from reading this forum and had to educate our other board members.

ANY and ALL damaging additions to a common element may be removed.

It is the 'dish' owner's responsibility for its PROPER and WORKMANLIKE installation.

A rule requiring installation of 'dish' according to mfgr's instruction WILL hold up under FFC scrutiny.

NO mfgr. will specify or allow equipment to be bolted to NON STRUCTURAL façade elements, eg. stucco, siding, sheathing, roof sheathing, faux brick, etc.

ALL installation 'specs' state "......to a structural element with at least 1.5" screw/bolt penetration".

"But I had them install it" is NOT a valid rationale to permit improper installs to remain ~ the OWNER merely has recourse against the installer.

Only a mental midget would penetrate an actual roof to install an antenna

A PROPER roof penetration requires PROFESSIONAL flashing to remain water tight.

PLUS: Exactly how is the HOA supposed to re-roof down the road? Around the dishes?

Let us stop all this ignorant BS and use some common sense and ACTUALLY READ the OTARD which ALLOWS structural bans and REQUIREMENTS for code compliant proper installations.

The fact that a building permit may not be required does NOT negate the requirement for a code compliant installation

The installation is a critical issue in wind prone areas where attachment to sheathing only may result in a compromised building envelope which may lead to total structural failure.

see: http://k7nv.com/notebook/topics/windload.html

I may have missed it but...

Fred,
Do you have a balcony?

My townhouse had two.

That is an 'exclusive use' element as only you can access it.