Amenity Free HOA

I totally agree with Johns comment above. And, like him I've come to this conclusion after reading hundreds of horror stories on line and having had some of them myself. My preference is to live outside of an HOA but that seems close to impossible. If you're young and reading this skip the pools, the equestrian center, the jogging paths, the weight rooms, the tennis and squash courts etc. All those amenities come with a huge price, and I'm not talking about the monthly fee. Look at the CC&Rs ... If they need more than 10 pages to express themselves, you're more likely to have problems. Live as independently as possible.

Since anyone can search for RE on-line, my advice is to have the listing agent pull the HOA docs before you ever visit and fall in love with the property ... some agents will do this and some won't. I've ruled out three different properties recently when I saw their CC&Rs exceeded 50 pages ... I didn't need to read them to know that they had covered every single little item and a sneeze could send you to court.

Yes, one can associate more rules and regulations with more amenities, however, the Association outside of even the first "rule" is only as good as the members and the Board of Directors they elect to govern. The problem is not the size or even the amenities so much as it is the members who actually participate fully. But like everything else in life, it only takes a few to F things up and every single HOA is labeled as the worst thing since the dawn of time.

I see it my own tiny, no amenities HOA to ones on here with hundreds of homes and full blown pools etc. It's what you make of it, you can't have the "protection of home values etc" without having the "you can't plant that begonia but you can plant this one".

And those members who don't get involved are all ok with how things are being run, until their pocketbooks are hit or they have been denied in some way. Then they will get involved, but sadly for their own gain and not for the good of the neighborhood. (although they swear that's their goal)

Like every single thing in life, you are putting your faith into another person, or in this case a board of people. It's a risk, like taking a cruise or flying across the country. You are at the mercy of the people who are supposed to get you there safely, and you can't control that human anymore than you can control weather.

So if you've found your dream home and it's everything you've ever wanted, could you really walk away just because it's in an HOA? I would hazard a guess that you would buy it anyway.

Or to put another way, it's only as good as the people willing to become involved in the running of the Association.

I certainly understand (and agree with) the point JohnC makes here.

However and just for the record, I live in a single-homes subdivision with six homes built that has zero amenities, zero landscaping, and streets maintained by the state. We currently have three active lawsuits pending, plus a recent HOA bankruptcy filing.

Trust me; an 'amenity free' HOA will not immunize anyone from severe and costly problems.

The tiny community has been and still is under 'Declarant Control.' Several years ago, the Declarant became angry. Simple as that. Overnite, our annual budget went from four line items to over thirty line items. Homeowner regular monthly fees went from $90/mo to $1300/mo (much more than my mortgage). Then there were the 'special assessments'...

Once bogus charges are challenged, legal fees come into the picture, most of which are 'passed onto' the homeowner members, and which in turn are challenged -- creating more legal fees....an accelerating downward spiral. Are we having fun yet?

My wife and I will not be moving into a Declarant Controlled situation again anytime soon, and I caution others to beware.

Angry, eh? Smells like greed to me. Perhaps the anger comes from not being able to sell all the homes and still having to pay for certain services (which they're required to do as long as they control the community), so why not pass it onto the homeowners.

Someone else on this site suggested that people never buy into a HOA still under developer control because of stuff like this (not to mention all the assorted construction issues that have cropped up). That seems to be a recipe for disaster.

I'm really naive ... what is "Declarant Control"?

What a fine,clear explanation, Ray!

Kelly,

JohnC has been (and will likely) continue to offer some very sound advice.
To my understanding, he still lives in a development governed by an HOA.

He is simply suggesting that there may be fewer issues if there are fewer amenities.

We can't pick up the sarcasm you must be implying with this reply?

engineered storm water utilities are (or should be) the majority expense for ANY association

if underfunded NOW there WILL be LARGE special assessments and/or bills later

these expenses will make a pool seem like pocket change

Every 1 should remember if you don't use the amenities you are subsidizing those who do.

I can't wait to leave my home in a "HOA" community. What I have learned (after nearly 10 hellish years)?

1. Buying into a community that is under development/still being built/brand new is a mistake. You look around before making a commitment to buy and everything looks shiny and new and glorious. You like the amenities and the subdivision looks like it is going to be a "winner". Fast forward to 10 years later. The control of the community has been turned over to the homeowners and the homeowners have no clue as to how to maintain the amenities. Those who are elected to the Board have their own "agendas" and those "agendas" do not include routine maintenance/replacement. HOA assessments have not been raised in 10 years because the Board members are retired and on a fixed income and will likely live in their homes for the rest of their lives and have no desire to spend a single penny over the assessments.

2. All it takes is one bad election, homeowners who are indifferent, and you end up with a group of highly uneducated/vindictive/self-serving/dramatic/indifferent (circle one or more) people who are now running the "business" of the HOA. The rest of the apathetic homeowners are just as happy as clams and don't seem to realize that their legal and financial interests are being represented by individuals who could care less about the legal and financial interests of ALL homeowners.

3. You buy into the subdivision with the mistaken belief that having the HOA will somehow protect your investment. The HOA has zero control over foreclosures and short-sales. The HOA may also fail to enforce the restrictions or sporadically enforce the restrictions so that in spite of the fact that (for example) all lawns will be maintained, you end up living next to the house with the worst lawn in the neighborhood (if not in the county). So much for having your investment "protected" under the blanket of a deed restricted community.

4. Everyone talks a good game about following the "rules" until someone tries to impose the "rules" over them and then it becomes OUTRAGE that they got a letter or demand to correct or fix their property. While it is at first mildly entertaining to watch a fellow homeowner rant and rave at the monthly Board meeting, it gets old after 10 years. Bonus points though if they are rip-roaring drunk while they air their grievance. Doing such ensures that it becomes legendary and talked about at barbeques, picnics, tennis games, Tupperware parties, etc for many years to come.

In the immortal words of Public Enemy: Don't Believe The Hype.

Well said.

Ann, that is a very powerful reply you've made. I agree with you wholeheartedly. I do hope our young people w/huge student debt and the unlikely prospects of continued employment will rethink whether or not the choose to live in a HOA. Comments like yours need to be more prevalent so that young people are not enticed by the seduction. It's like one of those dates where you'd rather chew off your arm than wake up the girl.

I'm also wondering about the logic of Ralph's remark, JohnC.

I guess i was think about the fact that fewer & fewer "young" people today can buy any kind of a home. Age of first homeownership has been rising for quite a few years now. And it's still also the case that most people don't have college degrees or debt. So, I just wasn't connecting the dots to real life.

Banks better expressed what I was trying to say when I addressed student debt. No political slam was intended. Costs in HOAs go up, and the more amenities the higher they go. Living HOA free is a better choice for young people if they can find a home outside of an HOA, which is becoming more difficult.

You are entitled to your opinion. Is it possible the homeowners have a very good clue and you were just one of the power hungry BOD members? We appear to have a president that believes it is "his" community and not "our" community. Most I speak with feel he is out of touch, but like many places, owner apathy is rampant especially with less than half developed and most lots belong to out of state owners.

Mike ... I agree with you. What follows is a little of a political statement ... Above all HOAs should teach us all why socialism can't work and doesn't work, Certain board members exclude their buddies and fellow board members from adhering to the rules. They are the elitists at the top of the food chain and know what they can get away with. Over time the community begins to deteriorate. Management companies only care about collecting their monthly check and aren't staffed to enforce the CC&Rs.

I was raised in a small community and I did a satellite image search expecting it would look terrible 57 yrs later. Quite the opposite ... Pristine small bungalows with yards maintained ... I wanted to move back.

Ralph, my hubby is President of our HOA and trying to get this HOA back on track ... It just might kill him in the process. He and I both agree that it's time to move south, but into an HOA we will not go. Whatever energy we have will go into renovating an old home as far away as possible from HOA socialism and gated communities. All we do is pay a monthly fee to subsidize all the amenities that are used by a very few. Aren't they lucky to have my money for their benefit? We value are freedom and for our remaining yrs want as much independence as we can possibly get.

And this is a good example as part of the problem.

Statements are made that are not intended to put everyone into a specific category. Unfortunately, the way they are made (in this case, generalized) those to whom the statement does not apply to become defensive (hey, we are all human). Depending on various factors that can change from minute to minute, the defensive individual may lash out, laugh it off, keep silent and have the comment stew (to be brought up again at a later date), or disagree with the statement but can understand why it was made (by looking at the issue from the other perspective).

I do think that everyone can agree that there are certainly individuals who love to complain but not be part of the solution (To go to an extreme: I paid my assessment, you work for me, these are my whims, address them). I also think that everyone can agree that there are certainly individuals who serve only to address a personal agenda (simple: I want x and if I'm on the Board I can approve it extreme: My neighbor annoys me and if I'm on the Board I can force them to shape up or ship out).

I also think that everyone can agree that (regardless of the perspective) there are more complaints than compliments.

If everyone (and I'm talking in generalities) can take the time to think about what was said and try to look at the issue from the other persons perspective, you may not agree but you should have a better understanding of how to deal with the issue being discussed. However, we are all human and even if you try to do this all the time, there will be times that it simply doesn't happen. When that happens, hopefully the other person can still look at the issue from a different perspective vs. having that instance/comment be what you are remembered for.

That's my two cents.

I only wish I could post pictures of the sorry shape our "amenities" are in right now. Yes, it is all due to poor management. Our amenities will forever be tied to the management of the Association. As far as serving, that is all good and well unless you have a group of moronic tyrants on your Board. Try convincing these people that they need to repair and maintain the existing amenities and knock it off with their new "projects". It is an exercise in futility.

I will say this after 10 years with "HOA" experience. Our family would have been better off financially if we had just moved to a regular neighborhood that was near county parks and recreation centers. Paying a premium for "HOA" amenities that have now fallen into disrepair due to poor management over the last few years was a stupid move. Now when we go to sell our home and our prospective buyers see how lousy the amenities look, it will likely create another negative impact on us.

Hey, Sally, there aren't any 30-year old high rises near us, but there's gorgeous twin towers near us that is 26 years old, and another single high rise of about the same age--also a few blocks away. The latter is considered the primo high rise in our urban area. They both are so attractive and functional because of healthy reserves, good management, and good governance. Are their monthly assessments high? You bet.

Anne I agree with you again. HOAs are better when developed for the wealthy as they have the resources to make sure their investment is protected. I know of many 30+ yr old high rises and while they were initially sold as the best of the best they eventually began to deteriorate.