HOA President or Management firm running meetings

TonyP8 (Arizona)
Posts: 1

Posted:

Our President,going on 6 straight years now,refuses to run our meetings,thus our rep from our management company runs the meeting and more or less controls and answers all questions.Is this the norm for the majority of HOA,s or are the majority of HOA meetings run by their nominated president ? Also,do the majority of HOA,s have term limits of how many times a president can consecutively be nominated ?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It is in the job description of what the President does. They are to conduct meetings but not act as Secretary as a general rule. A MC is a hired contractor to the HOA. They are paid and are to do what the HOA approves and contract states. Read your documents for election and terms. Each HOA is different.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/31/2014 10:11 AM
It is in the job description of what the President does. They are to conduct meetings but not act as Secretary as a general rule. A MC is a hired contractor to the HOA. They are paid and are to do what the HOA approves and contract states. Read your documents for election and terms. Each HOA is different.

I believe we all know at this point in our lives that what a person's job description is and what that person actually does are two completely different things. Directors were elected by the members (sometimes just appointed by a Board) and the directors among themselves appointed themselves into powers of authority. Most volunteers in HOA's are not qualified to be treasurer (chief financial officer). Volunteers elected as Presidents (chief executive officer)are not qualified for that position either.

If a HOA hired a property management firm to their day to day operations, many HOA prefer to have them rum their meetings and take their minutes as they generally have more insight on what happens on a day to day basis. But, make no mistake, and I ma speaking for myself only, I am bound by the direction and decision of the Board of Directors. If I think they may be skirting the law, I will offer my opinion and if their decisions are reckless and can harm the association and its members, I do know where the door is and I make sure it does not hit me on the way out. And I have walked away on a couple of occasions.

Another thing to consider is the comfort level of a board member conducting a meeting. Managers do this living, many volunteer directors do not.

Many on this forum may disagree with me, but with 350,000 HOA's and 1.5M volunteer board members, we are hardly in the majority.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Right, your documents, probably your bylaws, might state who presides at board meetings. Ours say that the president does. We have a full-time onsite PM, who often presents reports, but she does not preside.

Offhand, I don't think there are term limits for HOA officers, but check your bylaws to be sure.

If your president refuses to conduct the meetings, why does the Board continue to elect him to the office of president? How big is your board? Are you on it?

FredO (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

I have seen all three HOA's I have lived in specify that they followed Roberts Rules of Order for the handling of meetings. I believe that Roberts Rules also gives the definitions and duties of the various Board officers such as President, VP, Secretary and Treasurer.

Per Roberts Rules, the President shall preside over meetings, recognizing speakers and so forth. This is something that is in our by-laws.
However, that said, our Board meetings are usually a free for all with regards to the board members speaking out of turn. We have a loong serving board member who for years was the President. It seems he still thinks he is the president while our current President is too busy trying to be everybody's friend.

Same thing with regard to folks (general members) attending the meeting. Of course the ones who always show up are the past board members and president and they also talk out of turn and interrupt the meetings. Seems like none of them know or follow Roberts rules even though it is specified in our by-laws.

I gave my Robert Rules Book to the current President to try to help him grow a pair and be more assertive at the meetings (He's a retired cop for crying out loud). The meetings control him not him controlling the meetings....

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

Several years ago, we had an extremely inept president. She could not preside and didn't even know how to make or second a motion. So the then new PM actually presided at the meetings. This was one of just many blunders that prompted us non-board members to believe that the Board did not know anything and that it was incompetent to govern our HOA. Turns out we were right.

I'm sure Richard does a fine job presiding, but IMO, I think it's best for the community as a whole if the Board seems to know what it's doing. Our PM for the past nearly three years has helped less knowledgeable presidents preside without taking over the meetings.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Carol

I agree that it is always in the best interest of a community if they run their meetings and the PM is there for support. I have offered many boards training, but don't get many takers.

FredO (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

Richard,

That is so sad. You offer training but the BoD's refuse it.
The thing this tells me (and I have witnessed) is that a lot of board members don't know what they don't know about being a board member or being an officer on the board.

This leads to situations where they defer to someone who may be assertive but still does not know all. This is a very short walk from trying to do the best for the HOA to allegations of corruption because the inept actions can easily be construed as playing favorites or selective enforcement or mis-managing funds.

In my personal opinion, a great PM is one that helps keep the board in check (keeping them legal to coin a phrase).
Not really need to correct them at a meeting (unless it calls for it) but to give them guidance post meeting or pre-meeting.

I would accept folks who try and are honest. Admit their mistakes and work to correct it. Instead I have experienced where the HOA (Board and Property Manager) made a mistake by sending a non-compliance letter that was clearly describing another home to the wrong address. When the Homeowner stood fast, instead of admitting the mistake, this board would rather make things worse and took retributive actions on the Homeowner for stating they refused to acknowledge their mistake.

So much for honor or being neighborly.

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

Our bylaws state the the President has to preside over board meetings, but it does not state that they have to run the members meetings. We chose to have the PM preside over those because a members meeting is informational for the most part and the Board, as actual neighbors, don't want 40 people "attacking" them. The BOD does give a report, which the President gives, but otherwise since the owners all call the PM with problems etc, he should be the face of the meeting.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 05/31/2014 10:57 AM

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/31/2014 10:11 AM
It is in the job description of what the President does. They are to conduct meetings but not act as Secretary as a general rule. A MC is a hired contractor to the HOA. They are paid and are to do what the HOA approves and contract states. Read your documents for election and terms. Each HOA is different.

I believe we all know at this point in our lives that what a person's job description is and what that person actually does are two completely different things. Directors were elected by the members (sometimes just appointed by a Board) and the directors among themselves appointed themselves into powers of authority. Most volunteers in HOA's are not qualified to be treasurer (chief financial officer). Volunteers elected as Presidents (chief executive officer)are not qualified for that position either.

If a HOA hired a property management firm to their day to day operations, many HOA prefer to have them rum their meetings and take their minutes as they generally have more insight on what happens on a day to day basis. But, make no mistake, and I ma speaking for myself only, I am bound by the direction and decision of the Board of Directors. If I think they may be skirting the law, I will offer my opinion and if their decisions are reckless and can harm the association and its members, I do know where the door is and I make sure it does not hit me on the way out. And I have walked away on a couple of occasions.

Another thing to consider is the comfort level of a board member conducting a meeting. Managers do this living, many volunteer directors do not.

Many on this forum may disagree with me, but with 350,000 HOA's and 1.5M volunteer board members, we are hardly in the majority.

You make some excellent points (especially on ethical property managers deciding to walk away if HOA board members cannot or refuse to do things legally), but I still think Board members (the president) should run the meeting and prepare meeting minutes. There's too much information in bookstores, the Internet and this website that can provide useful information on running a meeting. If you don't have access to the internet or know someone who does, go to the library where the librarians can help you look for books.

If this president doesn't want to do his job and/or is unwilling to learn how, the rest of the board should remove him from the position and pick someone else (hopefully the rest of the community is paying attention, so they can consider whether or not someone like this should even serve on the Board.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I can't agree with Sheila about the president taking the meting minutes. Usually the bylaws of any corporation will state that the secretary takes the minutes. And that's probably the case in self-managed HOAs. I have heard of some, though, where a volunteer homeowner writes the minutes

But in ours, with a full-time onsite PM and mgr. asst., they write the minutes; it's a part of our contract with our MC. This permits the secretary to fully participate in board deliberations. The entire board approves the minutes at the next meeting.

In a very different setting some years ago, our assembly of 15 took turns taking the minutes at our monthly meetings. And It was very true that whoever's turn it was participated less than everyone else.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

I should clarify - the secretary should be taking minutes, but the president should run the meeting (call it to order, calling for motions and votes, etc.)

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563

Posted:

I can't agree with Sheila about the president taking the meeting minutes. Usually the bylaws of any corporation will state that the secretary takes the minutes. And that's probably the case in self-managed HOAs. I have heard of some, though, where a volunteer homeowner writes the minutes

But in ours, with a full-time onsite PM and mgr. asst., they write the minutes; it's a part of our contract with our MC. This permits the secretary to fully participate in board deliberations. The entire board approves the minutes at the next meeting.

In a very different setting some years ago, our assembly of 15 took turns taking the minutes at our monthly meetings. And It was very true that whoever had that task participated less than everyone else.