Question on an HOA dispute

I was referred to this forum on another site and I will definitely appreciate any advice you may provide.

I live in a condo, in California, which I've purchased about 2.5 years ago. I live with my wife and a small dog (permitted in the condo, about 15% of the owners have one). About a year ago someone purchased a place underneath me. Shortly following that, a steady stream of noise complaints started coming from him to the HOA. Most of them tend to be centered around me and my wife walking in my house. We both work very long hours, practically don't watch TV, no loud music, no parties, none of your typical noise sources. Some of his complaints centered around the dog barking. Over the last year I must have spent a few thousand dollars on dog training and the barking has essentially stopped. Of course the dog will sometimes produce a sound, but certainly he won't bark for any duration of time. Also, my floors are hardwood (laminate) with sound barrier underlayment.

HOA directed some of those complaints at me, to which I've replied with more or less what I've said above. My personal belief is that my neighbor is overly sensitive to noise. They've showed me his "noise log" that he maintains and I can't understand why they don't see the ridiculousness of it. It includes items like when I get home, when I go to the bathroom and a two page essay about when I dropped something in the kitchen.

My entire position about this is that if he feels that there is excessive noise, than he should file a police report, call the animal control department, etc. HOA should not be getting in the middle of this, particularly without actually having verified any of his complaints for legitimacy. I don't believe that I am producing excessive noise by any means. I hear my neighbors all the time and always have when I lived in other apartment buildings. I believe that some degree of noise will always exist and it's part of living in an apartment building. If he is incredibly sensitive to noise, that puts him outside the baseline, not me.

Anyway, I've met with their attorney in an arbitration meeting. What I've offered is that I will place some area rugs in the bedroom, purely out of good will. Though I think the chances that it will pacify the neighbor downstairs are practically nil.

They came back with a different offer. They want me to cover my entire floor with carpet and they want to make it binding on the unit. Meaning if I sell the place I have to make that a condition of the sale. I think that both requests are pretty ridiculous and they are definitely unacceptable to me.

I am about to reject their offer, however I am not sure what happens at that point. Best case scenario is that they leave me alone, but I doubt it. Most likely I'd have to hire an attorney and fight them in court. I'd really hate to have to deal with courts, attorneys, etc, but what are my options there? Any advice? Am I crazy to think that HOA is out if its bounds on this issue?

Thanks ahead for advice.

Hi Art:

One thing to consider...purchase a Noise Level Meter from Radio Shack (about $50, definitely cheaper than new carpeting) and have a neutral 3rd party measure the sound in the unit below, and compare to the sound levels in other downstairs units. If it's the same, then it's his problem to solve (has he thought of any sound-abating tiles on his ceiling?). A noise level meter will give you some objective data.

One thing that might cause a difference, some people just walk more loudly than others (I can say that because I can sneak up on someone easily because I walk so quietly). You, your wife or your dog might be "loud walkers" compared to most people. If that's the case, change into bedroom slippers or equivalent when you get home. You might try walking in another upstairs unit when the noise tests are being conducted, to see if you do walk more loudly...or if (by chance) your unit was constructed improperly in a way that conducts more noise.

To some extent, it's his problem for purchasing a downstairs unit. You rearely get perfect sound insulation between units upstairs and downstairs. I've lived in apartments where I was the downstairs guy and the lady above came home late and took a bath...and an upstairs apartment where the room fan below made noise. It's life. If he wanted perfect quiet, he should have purchased a single-family home, or buy some Bose headphones that eliminate noise....

The objective data would be helpful, if he wants to pursue it.

J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

Art,
Seems like an excellent time to purchase that noise metter and offer that a test with the metter be conducted by disinterested parties using the actual units involved. The test results would serve as starting point in your negotiations with the arbitration panel. I could well be that you do not generate enough noise to cause a complaint. However, I once lived below a single man and we used to call him "concrete foot". Paul's advice seems sound.
You could at least offer the test as a good faith gesture.

I am on the other side of the USA from California, but I am a owner of "downstairs" condo unit. We are experiencing the same issue (ours are more of construction defect as cause). However, what I do know, and not stating that it is applicable to your jurisdiction, but there are codes that establish what the decibel level thresholds are for a unit. If your govnerning doc's are silent, I would confer with the state/local/municipality codes are for your area. Noise/nuisance abatement is a hard element to prove - unless you are having a large and loud party where the police are called. It might be well worth the trouble of researching the applicable codes, and to inform the BOD of what the acceptable noise levels are defined.

I agree with the meter testing. I have a friend who has very sensitive hearing and it causes him no end of problems. One thing he has done over the years is use ear plugs. He is now getting fitted ear plugs that are advertised to work better since they are made to fit his ear. He's been living in an apartment for a while, but is looking forward to getting into his own home.

It may be that your noise is normal, or that you are "loud walkers" and he has sensitive hearing--or not. Maybe he just likes to complain, and you are the nearest target.
A meter can help determine that.

Since you're not home, you don't know if the dog barks or not. Maybe a voice activated recording with a time code in your own condo can help determine the frequency of that.
JC3

The idea of a sound meter is good but why should Art be doing this? If the neighbors and the HOA BELIEVE there is an issue, let them PROVE it. Politely tell them you dont' believe there is an issue and will consider remediation only after they can provide evidence of excessive noise.

Art SHOULDN'T be doing it, but the condo ass isn't going to, and this will help his defense. He should still work to get them to do it, or, as someone said, if they don't provide the proof...

But what if they provide skewed "proof"? How will he know unless he has his own documentation?

Art and Paul
Good advice from Paul His posting rings a bell. Why not copy some of the posting on this site and show them to your Board to demonstrate good faith in trying to arbitrate your dispute. If things deteriorate, you might be able to use this in your defense and also to supprt you side. Now who on any Board in the world would ignored such sage advise from such a regal tribunal.

Hi Art,

Sounds like your board is as unreasonable as mine. Covering the hardwood floors with that much rug sort of defeats the propose of having them.

Did you say you've talked with an attorney? If your CC&R doesn't prohibt hardwood floor you might check into the legality of their proposal. What if that downstairs person moves and one with normal hearing moves in. Then your buyer is now stuck with contingency that isn't necessary. T

For Art,

At this point, and I mean no harm, this whole thing reads like a soap opera. I will assure you if I received the kind of treatment from my HOA I would by now, be very close to being locked up for distrubing the peace, among other things. At that point, if it were I, I would be guilty of all kinds of self induced problems. I have a reputation, some of it, too much, justified, that I am a crabby old man looking for trouble. In other words I would have become part of the problem because of past actions or conflicts with the Board and Manager. I have never let this interfere with my Don Quixote charge at all Wind Mills. Wonder if this has happened to you and now, as I, sometimes find myself between a rock and a hard place, unable to gracefully leave the battle field. Not that it matters, just curious.

Art,
I don't know if this is good advice or not. Our Master Deed says a Owner can request to look at Board records and correspondence, pertaining to a specific problem. I think I would at this point notify the Board you are going to retain an attorney and request that all corresponddence relating to this issue be set aside so you can read it, copy it and give it to your attorney. They will have to think on this and in the end just might do it. If they are required to do it, then when you get an attorney, that is just one more item you can bring up. I imagine you have a lot of paper work, letters and so on that you will give to your attorney and his first step will probably notify the board you have retained his services and he will ask for all correspondence, etc. If you are able to copy any stuff from management that you don't have you may be a step ahead and save a few bucks. Your request to the management should be certified, receipt requested.
I have no idea who to call but I bet CAI has a referral service that can hook you up with someone they trust to treat you properly.