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BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104
Posted:
If a member obtains documents from the association under the right to "inspect records" civil code, does he or she have the right to then distribute those documents to other members?
PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:
just make sure you are distributing to an actual OWNER/MEMBER and NOT to a resident non owner/member

DO NOT EQUATE RESIDENCE WITH MEMBERSHIP

ONLY OWNERS ARE MEMBERS

ONLY MEMBERS ARE ENTITLED TO CORP. INFO
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think inspect records is different than copy records. You can look at the documents and then pay for copies. Copies are not free. I would also not make them free to others. Some information should still be private. That are individual collection records. You should know your record but no need to broadcast to everybody else. Do you want people to see and broadcast your records? That is what your asking.

If they are members why are they not making the effort to be informed? You can bring the lake to the camel but you can not make them drink. Trying sell your point does not mean anyone is buying or in the market.

Former HOA President
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BettyO1 on 05/25/2014 9:45 AM
If a member obtains documents from the association under the right to "inspect records" civil code, does he or she have the right to then distribute those documents to other members?

Why wouldn't s/he? Except for certain limitations spelled out in Civil Code 5230 Restrictions on Use of Records I see nothing barring them from sharing with their fellow homeowners in order to save that homeowner from also paying copying costs not to mention the disruption to the MC or HOA office to pull and copy the records again. Although we may conciser HOA business HOA business, it's not like they are copying the nuclear launch codes.

From davis-stirling.com:
Civil Code §5230. Restriction on Use of Records.
[Old: Civ. Code §1365.2(e)]

(a) The association records, and any information from them, may not be sold, used for a commercial purpose, or used for any other purpose not reasonably related to a member’s interest as a member. An association may bring an action against any person who violates this article for injunctive relief and for actual damages to the association caused by the violation.

(b) This article may not be construed to limit the right of an association to damages for misuse of information obtained from the association records pursuant to this article or to limit the right of an association to injunctive relief to stop the misuse of this information.

(c) An association shall be entitled to recover reasonable costs and expenses, including reasonable attorney’s fees, in a successful action to enforce its rights under this article.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Betty,

The Association has no control over what someone does with documents that they receive. This is why certain records are allowed to be withheld (as it protects privacy).

First of all, there shouldn't be anything in those records that the Association is worried about. Therefore, you really shouldn't be that concerned as to who obtains them (although I am for only releasing certain information, like financial, to members, it shouldn't be an issue if someone else got that info).

Second of all, if there is something in the records that the Association is worried about, they should have already addressed it or be addressing it and have made the membership aware of the issue. If this was done, then there shouldn't be an issue.

Whenever I read something about people being concerned about the release of information, I have to ask, who is being embarrassed by it? If they are embarrassed by what the records show, perhaps they shouldn't have done what caused the embarrassment.

ToriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I agree, there shouldn't be anything in the HOA records that any member should not see....with the exception of information regarding a specific member. For example, a former board member is inquiring about whether a specific member paid their 2014 dues. I don't feel this type of 'record' should be released. Does everyone else agree? Financial records with regards to how the HOA operates is sufficient.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BettyO1 on 05/25/2014 9:45 AM
If a member obtains documents from the association under the right to "inspect records" civil code, does he or she have the right to then distribute those documents to other members?

What documents did the individual obtain?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ToriaM on 06/04/2014 9:49 AM
I agree, there shouldn't be anything in the HOA records that any member should not see....with the exception of information regarding a specific member. For example, a former board member is inquiring about whether a specific member paid their 2014 dues. I don't feel this type of 'record' should be released. Does everyone else agree? Financial records with regards to how the HOA operates is sufficient.

I for one have always believed in directly publishing the names of those behind in their dues. Some call it public shaming, But I for one, have no issue with it. Personally I would call it the So and So Association Hall of Shame.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/04/2014 1:54 PM
Posted By ToriaM on 06/04/2014 9:49 AM
I agree, there shouldn't be anything in the HOA records that any member should not see....with the exception of information regarding a specific member. For example, a former board member is inquiring about whether a specific member paid their 2014 dues. I don't feel this type of 'record' should be released. Does everyone else agree? Financial records with regards to how the HOA operates is sufficient.


I for one have always believed in directly publishing the names of those behind in their dues. Some call it public shaming, But I for one, have no issue with it. Personally I would call it the So and So Association Hall of Shame.


I agree with you 100% and I believe we should eliminate executive sessions as ALL association business should be out in the open.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

I do not agree with eliminating Executive Sessions. I do believe they are often overly and/or improperly used, but they have their place.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ToriaM on 06/04/2014 9:49 AM
I agree, there shouldn't be anything in the HOA records that any member should not see....with the exception of information regarding a specific member. For example, a former board member is inquiring about whether a specific member paid their 2014 dues. I don't feel this type of 'record' should be released. Does everyone else agree?

No.

The law says if you are subject to restrictive covenants you have entered a contract with all others who are also subject to the same covenants. If one of those covenants is that I have to pay assessments then I should have the right to know which other parties are not performing their part of the bargain.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ToriaM on 06/04/2014 9:49 AM
I agree, there shouldn't be anything in the HOA records that any member should not see....with the exception of information regarding a specific member. For example, a former board member is inquiring about whether a specific member paid their 2014 dues. I don't feel this type of 'record' should be released. Does everyone else agree? Financial records with regards to how the HOA operates is sufficient.

This as been discussed many, many, many, many times.

It appears that most State laws leave this decision to the board. Most State laws allow the Board to withhold assessment information but does not require withholding.

In those many, many, many, many times that it has been discussed, there is a clear consensus that the regular participants on this site are divided on the issue.

Therefore, each Board will need to make their own decision based on their States applicable laws, governing documents and their own personal opinions. If the Board desires, they may always bring the issue to the membership for a vote on a policy about it.

To see what some of those discussions were, simply do a search on this forum for names of delinquent members (please don't reactivate those threads). I just did a search and it returned 1,930 pages.

Did I mention that this has been discussed many, many, many, many times?
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
In Arizona, records are subject to ARS 33-1805:

B. Books and records kept by or on behalf of the association and the board may be withheld from disclosure to the extent that the portion withheld relates to any of the following:
1. Privileged communication between an attorney for the association and the association.
2. Pending litigation.
3. Meeting minutes or other records of a session of a board meeting that is not required to be open to all members pursuant to section 33-1804.
4. Personal, health or financial records of an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor for the association, including records of the association directly related to the personal, health or financial information about an individual member of the association, an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor for the association.
5. Records relating to the job performance of, compensation of, health records of or specific complaints against an individual employee of the association or an individual employee of a contractor of the association who works under the direction of the association.

We have debated paragraph 4 repeatedly in my association. Some interpret this to mean that I cannot obtain records relating to a particular member's payments. I say I am entitled to view the record as to whether he paid but that I may not obtain information such as the credit card number that may be on file for his payments or the bank account number he wrote his check against.

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
I would suggest that you have the previous board member get his own copy of the records and keep yourself out of it. We live in a highly litigious world.

As much as I would like to publicly shame the non-payers, I would not give out their names for many reasons, first of which is that there is nothing to gain from it. Why would you want the names? To throw stones at them? To have the entire HOA flip them off as they drive by? (And I say this because I would LOVE to use these actions myself within our HOA)

There are other avenues available and some have more weight than others, but giving out the names of the people does not feel like the best way to go, after all, even if your within your rights, that owner whose name you've blasted out there can easily come back on you in a lawsuit, REgardless of it being within the law.

And in this case with it being a former Director asking, he can put his own rear on the line if he is so concerned.

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