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GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
I am a member of a PROPERTY OWNER ASSOCIATION (POA) after buying a property in 2007 in Florida. I paid for the 1st year an assessment of $ 1,500.00, in advance. In the signed covenants it has been said that in 2008 the assessment will be set BY VOTE of the property owners. But the association has never been formed and the builder keeps asking for $ 1,500.00. I refused to pay, he took a lawyer and I was obliged to pay in 2008, 2009, 2010. Til now 2014, the builder refuses to form the Association, NEVER gave a report to anybody of the money received, NEVER makes any meeting, set himself the assessment at $ 1,500.00 each and every year and asks for payment of maintenance. My question is this. Can the builder has the authority to set assessment, keep the money without report and continue to ask for payment without a PROPERTY OWNER Association formed according to FLORIDA RULES with Board of Directors... and so on ??? Any response will be appreciated. Thank you
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Yes, he is the developer. He set the fee and he wants his money. And he will get it. He will setup the HOA when he is ready to turn it over to the HOA.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Gerard,

Per the documents you sited, the assessment is set by membership vote. What you may have failed to realize is that in new developments (or those still under control of the Developer), there are two classes of members. Homeowners, who typically have 1 vote per lot and the Developer who typically have many votes per lot. It is highly likely that the developer has, and will maintain, the majority of votes until the last lot is sold.

So it's not that the developer can do what they want because they are the developer, it's because the developer controls the majority of the available votes in the Association.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GerardP on 05/24/2014 3:18 PM
Can the builder has the authority to set assessment, keep the money without report and continue to ask for payment without a PROPERTY OWNER Association formed according to FLORIDA RULES with Board of Directors... and so on ??? Any response will be appreciated. Thank you

The answer is probably not a matter of Florida law, it is a matter of your governing documents. When the developer formed the POA, they most likely did a few things:
o - Formed a corporation for the POA and registered it with the state
o - Created the bylaws for the corporation, possibly registered with the state or county, but probably not.
o - Created a Declaration of Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CCRs, sometimes known as deed restrictions.) These CCRs are attached to the deed and should be registered with the county.

There probably is a POA, it just hasn't been turned over to the property owners yet. How many lots are sold out of how many total?

The answer to your questions is most likely in the documents mentioned above. For example, in my HOA, the CCRs specified that the developer had control until they (or their successors, assigns, etc.) owned less than 10% of the lots, but it could be different in yours. Generally, developers keep control until most or all lots are sold. As long as the developer is in control, they can do just about anything, including unilaterally changing the CCRs. Ideally the developer is collecting enough to maintain the common elements and fund any required reserves without much waste, but not all of them do that. Sometimes they hire a management company that the also have an interest in, charge high management fees, and milk the property owners.

You'll find many posters on here who recommend never buying into a developer controlled development. In my case it worked out ok, I was the 5th HO out of 65, real estate was hopping, the developer was out in a couple of years, and turned over a decent start on our reserve funds. Sometimes it drags out a lot longer. In any case, start with your docs.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Gerard,

How does your CC&R's describe the association? Does it state that the association shall be incorporated and not-for-profit?
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
It is an incorporated association

Thank you
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Thank you
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
You are quite right. But my problem is this : there is no meeting, no votes,no Budget, no financial reports, nothing.In the covenants it had been said that works will be terminated by December 2007 and after the first assessment set at $ 1500.00, in 2008 future assessments will be set by votes. We were prepared to challenge the assessment set at $ 1500.00 as too high since there is no construction on the property and except roads there is no other common areas in the association, no Pool, no club,no playroom, no play ground nothing at all.

Thank you so much for your kind response
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Dear DouglasK1,
I clearly understand your point and I do thank you: My error was **I bought a property (not a House) into a developer controlled development** I really had no experience. I think that you can help me better with those 4 points of the RECORDED CCRs:

1)Buyer had to pay UP FRONT $ 9,638.00 for Utilities installation and $ 1,500.00 association fees for the calendar year of 2007.(WHAT I DID)
2)Future association fees will be set by vote of the members each year
3) Roads, water, sewer, underground telephone, electric and cable will be completed on or before Dec. 1st 2007
4) Private Roads will be deeded to POA and thereafter will be maintained by POA.

No transfer to POA has never been made, no Budget, no financial report, no meeting nothing. It is not clear for me and according to DOCUMENTS, the developer had FIVE (5) Years (2006-2011) Maximum to turn over the Association. Please Help. Thank you
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Gerard

As Doug said. Most Covenants will say when the Declarant must turn over control to the owners. Typically wording is turn over occurs with one year after XX% of lots are sold (it could be 100%) or on or before Jan 1, 2025. In our case it was 85% of homes sold. Not built, but sold.

In some cases the Covenants say the Declarant may add additional property/sections. If this occurs then the turnover is delayed as the 90% becomes a larger number. Such has been going on in Sun City Hilton Head since the early 90's. Not to be negative about Sun City. Those folks are happy as the Declarant does a great job.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GerardP on 05/25/2014 6:20 AM
Dear DouglasK1,
I clearly understand your point and I do thank you: My error was **I bought a property (not a House) into a developer controlled development** I really had no experience. I think that you can help me better with those 4 points of the RECORDED CCRs:

No transfer to POA has never been made, no Budget, no financial report, no meeting nothing. It is not clear for me and according to DOCUMENTS, the developer had FIVE (5) Years (2006-2011) Maximum to turn over the Association. Please Help. Thank you

If the developer hasn't turned the association over to the members as required, suing him might be your only recourse. You could try getting as many property owners as possible to send a demand letter, that might have more attention if it comes from a lawyer. Either way, you will probably need to pony up some money to a lawyer. One potential problem is that as long as the developer has control, they can generally make changes to the CCRs, so they could amend the 2011 date to further in the future. Do you have any idea how many lots the developer still owns?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
AnnH6 (Florida)
Posts: 27
Posted:
It sounds like you live in a community that has a lot of empty lots or unsold homes? If so, I can understand your frustration. These types of communities are all over our county- developer started to build and then the housing market crashed. It seems like only recently has any building of homes resumed in these developments----6 years later!

I think that unless a certain percentage of lots have been sold, you will not have a HOA governed by homeowners. However, per Florida State 720:
"The association shall prepare an annual budget that sets out the annual operating expenses. The budget must reflect the estimated revenues and expenses for that year and the estimated surplus or deficit as of the end of the current year. The budget must set out separately all fees or charges paid for by the association for recreational amenities, whether owned by the association, the developer, or another person. The association shall provide each member with a copy of the annual budget or a written notice that a copy of the budget is available upon request at no charge to the member. The copy must be provided to the member within the time limits set forth in subsection"

I am not sure, but doesn't that entitle you to at least request and receive a copy of the budgets?

MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/25/2014 7:38 AM
Posted By GerardP on 05/25/2014 6:20 AM
Dear DouglasK1,
I clearly understand your point and I do thank you: My error was **I bought a property (not a House) into a developer controlled development** I really had no experience. I think that you can help me better with those 4 points of the RECORDED CCRs:

No transfer to POA has never been made, no Budget, no financial report, no meeting nothing. It is not clear for me and according to DOCUMENTS, the developer had FIVE (5) Years (2006-2011) Maximum to turn over the Association. Please Help. Thank you


If the developer hasn't turned the association over to the members as required, suing him might be your only recourse. You could try getting as many property owners as possible to send a demand letter, that might have more attention if it comes from a lawyer. Either way, you will probably need to pony up some money to a lawyer. One potential problem is that as long as the developer has control, they can generally make changes to the CCRs, so they could amend the 2011 date to further in the future. Do you have any idea how many lots the developer still owns?

That is what I've been thinking. Gerard, are you sure you have the most recent CCR's that have been recorded? Is it possible there have been changes that you are unaware of? From what I have been reading at various sites, this can happen when the developer is attempting to protect their interests while still in control.
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
First of all, I want to thank you for your attention. I do not know if they are changes in the CCRs. The developer can keep control of the community if he so desires but,my point is if I am paying maintenance fees, I am supposed to receive copies of Budgets, Financials reports, notices of meeting. NOTHING I am in the black and the developer is only sending maintenancebills. No correspondences at all even I asked for by written. I can not know who are in the association (my association?) It is very difficult to understand.
Yours truly
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Yes, there are many empty lots in the lot community (Not houses). The developer can continue with the control of the community and not turn over it to the POA. But I think that I am entitled to receive at least copies of documents, administrative and financials because it is a community and I am supposed to be a member. I do not want to be ignored and reminded only for payment of fees for what expenses??? I do not know neither. Thanks again
PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:
Contact your county's 'register of deeds' and get a 'certified' copy of the current CCRs on file -READ THEM 5 TIMES

THEN

STUDY THEM 6 TIMES

If the HOA is Incorporated:

contact the Secretary of State and obtain the 'registered agent's' name & mailing address

send a request for the docs certified return receipt

You may always petition a court of law to appoint a corporate receiver if you truly believe the corp BOD is breaching its fiduciary duty and KNOWINGLY operating against the membership's best interest(s).

CAVEAT EMPTOR
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GerardP on 05/25/2014 9:13 AM

But I think that I am entitled to receive at least copies of documents, administrative and financials because it is a community and I am supposed to be a member.

I know you said that nothing has been provided.

Have you asked for them?
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Caveat Emptor,
I really appreciate your suggestions. I will follow them all. I ask for documents many times already without any results. Now, I am sure that your formula will work.

Thank you very much
GerardP (Florida)
Posts: 9
Posted:
Yes, I do. Five to Six times without any response. I will do it again.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Gerard

I am not nr do I play a Lawyer especially in FL.

Typically the Declarant/Corporation must present an annual financial report. It will not be in detail, but it is a start.
PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:


"Caveat Emptor" is Latin 'legalese' meaning: Let The Buyer Beware

It is a basic of Western sales transactions and common law.

It is sometimes translated as: Let the buyer perform due diligence BEFORE purchase(ing).

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