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Religious/Bible Gatherings at the Clubhouse

Started by AlexM1 • 11 replies • 2441 views

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AlexM1 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 287
Posted:
One of the renters at our condo complex wants to rent the clubhouse for a religious Bible Study. We are a little
cautious about this and do not know if it has long-term consequences/problems. I remember some years ago the
Board turned down a group that wanted to have weekly(Sunday) prayer services in the clubhouse. If it were to be
turned down, what would be the reasoning?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Alex

I am not nor do I play a lawyer.

The issues about club house rental to non-owners is how is the income accounted/taxed. Also for non-owner groups, there can be liability, ADA. etc. issues that do not apply to owner usage.

Forget the morality/religious issues. There are other issues.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
The problem with both religious and political groups is that by their very nature they include some and exclude others based on ideology. Unlike a knitting group or model railroad club, religious and political groups imply that their members are somehow superior to others because they are members of those groups. No matter how smoothly things may go at first, sooner or later there will be complaints from those who are excluded.

This is a road I would not go down.

Your clubhouse should be a place for people to come together and not a place to divide them.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/22/2014 6:35 PM
The problem with both religious and political groups is that by their very nature they include some and exclude others based on ideology. Unlike a knitting group or model railroad club, . . .

who include and exclude others based on personal interests

ideology: "the set of ideas and beliefs of a group"

interest "a feeling of wanting to learn more about something or to be involved in something"

Mind you the difference or similarities between using the terms ideology and interest can be a whole debate on it's own. So rather then diverting the thread onto that debate, I'll simply state that I agree with others that their can be issues that an Association likely doesn't want to get into (for example: when does allowing one group to use the facility and denying a similar group the same access become discriminatory) when authorizing the clubhouse or meeting room for any purpose other then Association functions.

I would suggest that the Association develops a use policy and then stick to that policy. Perhaps, something like, scheduling can only be done 1 month in advance, rental fee/security deposit, rental to member only and member must be in attendance and is responsible for the actions of their guests and damage to the facility, etc.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
The real issue is the non membership status of the renter not what happens at the meeting. Rental is for members not renters.
Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/22/2014 9:01 PM
The real issue is the non membership status of the renter not what happens at the meeting. Rental is for members not renters.

Unless you have a rule against it, renters can rent out a clubhouse or any common area component as long as they and the owner/landlord are in good standing.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/22/2014 7:18 PM
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/22/2014 6:35 PM
The problem with both religious and political groups is that by their very nature they include some and exclude others based on ideology. Unlike a knitting group or model railroad club, . . .


who include and exclude others based on personal interests


I have yet to meet a model railroader who claims God is on his side. My recollection is that neither model railroaders nor knitters were responsible for the attacks on 9-11-2001. That, plus numerous other attacks around the world, are attributed to religious fanatics. And they always claim God is on their side.
MikeL13 (South Carolina)
Posts: 83
Posted:
Our rules for clubhouse rental state that "no political or religious organized meetings at any time".

The CCR's give the right to set up rules for use.

Does your paperwork have something similar?

Mike
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/22/2014 9:01 PM
Rental is for members not renters.

Our HOA is different.

Our Bylaws state:
"Any Member my delegate his rights of enjoyment of the Common Area and its facilities to the members of his family, his tenants or contract purchasers, who reside on the property."

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/22/2014 6:25 PM
The issues about club house rental to non-owners is how is the income accounted/taxed.

It doesn't matter whether the income from rental comes from owners or non-owners, it is still taxable income. The IRS rule is whether or not the income is from assessments that are paid by everybody simply because they are members of the HOA, such as owners (non taxable income), or from special use of the facilities and paid only by those using the facility whether they are owners or not (taxable income).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Larry,

That wasn't the point I was making (and I think you know that).

The point is that every group, regardless of what the group meets for, includes or excludes others based on various reasons. Therefore, I don't think that facility use based on who is included or excluded should be the basis for approving or disapproving a request. In fact, doing so could be considered discriminatory.

Now, the type of activities or membership affiliation (to the association) is a whole different issue of discussion.

As I said, and you seem to agree, for various reasons, it likely isn't in the best interest of the Association to allow the use of the clubhouse for this purpose.

PitA1
Posts: 222
Posted:
DITTO BruceF1

in addition

once it becomes an available rental OPEN TO THE PUBLIC it becomes a PUBLIC ACCOMODATION subject to the ADA

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