Election information

Started by BettyO1 • 16 replies • 1356 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Are members entitled to know how many total proxies were received in an annual election? If so, what is recourse if association refuses to provide the information? What about list of members who voted that determined outcome of election?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Betty,

Per Davis-Stirling.com proxies are not allowed to be reviewed. However, the actual ballots are.

Additonally, per the sites Inspection of Ballots page:

Ballots & Proxies. In the event of a recount or other challenge to the election process, the association must, upon written request, make the ballots available for inspection and review by association members or their authorized representatives. Proxies are not authorized by statute for inspection, only ballots are. (Civ. Code §5125.) The reason for not including proxies may be that they are personal and confidential between the member and his/her proxy and do not impact the inspection of ballots.

Voter List. The list of members who voted in the election should also be open to inspection by members.

Voter Confidentiality. Any inspection must be conducted under the supervision of the Inspector of Elections and in a manner that preserves the confidentiality of the vote. (Civ. Code §5125.)

Deadline for Production. Ballots must be produced within the time periods set by statute.

So, if I understand it correctly, you must be challenging the election results to obtain this info. If you just want the info for a reason other than challenging the election results, you might not be able to see the voting list.

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Question is how many proxies were turned in, not see proxies. Is that allowed? Need info before any election challenge.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

There are others on this site who are more familiar with CA law.

If you can't find the answer on the davis-stirling site I provided links to, they may know.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Personally, if you were in my Association, I would tell you how many were present in person and by proxy. In fact, we record that number in the minutes of the meeting and indicate on the sign-in sheet who was there by proxy.

I'm not really understanding why the number of proxies are that important, unless you believe that some of them were fraudulent. Even if you believe some proxies were invalid, without seeing them, it's going to be difficult to prove.

That said, does your Association use a sign-in sheet for the meetings?
If they do, the proxy representative should have signed their name for the member, or simply wrote proxy next to it. This can give you an indication of who had proxies and who didn't (well, if your Association works that way).

Richard and others have a good understanding of CA statutes and elections. Hopefully they will check in and respond this weekend. If not, be sure to check back here Monday evening.

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Thanks. There is no sign in info. No info being provided at all!

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Betty

There is nothing in Civil Code or Corporation Code prohibiting the inspection and verifying validity of an proxy. A proxy, on its own, is not casting a vote toward a measure or a candidate. All a proxy does is gives the holder the opportunity to vote by secret ballot, the number of proxies they have collected. The proxy may be identified as for quorum purpose only in which no vote is cast.

A proxy, like the outer signed envelope, can be challenged to make sure there are no duplicates, and the proxy giver is eligible to vote and so forth.

The opinion Tim posted, by the authors of the davis-stirling.com, provides commentary not backed up by evidence.

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

What is the recourse if association says the new HOA civil code (took place of DS) only allows ballots to be examined, does not allow disclosure of who voted or total proxy count?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 05/18/2014 6:33 PM

A proxy, on its own, is not casting a vote toward a measure or a candidate. All a proxy does is gives the holder the opportunity to vote by secret ballot, the number of proxies they have collected.

Unless it is a directed proxy, which would also instruct the proxy how to vote.
I can see Directed proxies, if used, being a concern and not preserving the confidentiality of the vote.

Betty,

Have you already asked for that information and been turned down or are you gathering info prior to asking?

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Turned down. Is there civil code or corporation code that says voter list (who voted) cannot be disclosed? Or number of proxies received?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Betty

There is no Civil or Corporation Code that says that the voter list or proxy list can't be disclosed.

The outer envelopes can be viewed by any member. The secret ballot, once separated from the inner and outer envelopes can't be reviewed. Of course, there will be no markings on the ballots identifying the voter.

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Is there any recourse if board refuses requests?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Betty

What exactly is your concern about the proxies? Please be clear and to the point. There might be a away of advising you what to do.

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

If make requests for the information (list of members who voted and total number of proxies) and board says no, what can be done, if anything?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Take them to Small Claims Court. If you are a member, you are entitled to know who voted and the number of proxies delivered. They have 15 days from date of election to send out, via U.S. Mail, the results of the election. If they don't, another $500 fine. If they don't want to comply, best guess is there is something to hide.

BettyO1 (California)
Posts: 104

Posted:

Thanks. Hope court takes these issues.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

Betty

There is a process prior to filing a Small Claim suit. I will send you the information this evening. What you want to request from the association is an IDR, or Internal Dispute Resolution. The Board or association CANNOT turn down the request to "meet and confer".

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here