Board keeps association pool unsafe

Our association pool is dark all the time. Underwater light timer is missing. We feel pool is unsafe to use. We sent several emails to Board but did not get even a reply. County health Department is monitoring association pool regularly but their visits only at daytime and they are not aware about this problem. Should Health Department be informed? Is there any other way to convince lazy and greedy board to fix this problem without drastic measures like reporting to HD? If anybody was in similar situation please give us your opinion. Thanks a lot in advance.

HOA Board certainly does have enough money. Last annual meeting confirmed there is sufficient balance on association bank account. Board has spent just 900 USD to contribute to special assessment and regular maintenance fees. Pool light timer price is up to 100 USD plus work which wouldn't cost more than another 100 USD. Board did not reply with explanation about lack of budget and they wouldn't as that would be a lie. Would you offer something more? Thanks a lot.

A pool is NOT part of your property value. Pools are attractive to potential buyers but do not add value. In my experience a pool is nothing more than hole to sink your money in. We maintained ours but always needed something. It was awful to keep up with and half the people wanted to bury it. I used it almost every day in the summer and did alot of the repairs myself. It was difficult and never pleased everybody.

The light timer you want may not be a good idea. Light attracts algea. The pool works like a giant aquarium. Light is good for night swims but I believe that when sun goes down everyone should go home. We closed the pool at 10 pm anyways. After dark the pool can attract vandals or nudist.... Keeping the pool lit lets you not see the latter...

A Hoa is a non profit. It may have had a balance last year but should not at the end of it. Except for money in reserves. The money collected is to equal the expenses of maintenace and operation. Each month that fluctuates. Attending 1 meeting does not consitute a whole year of knowing the budget.

Simply do your own reasearch and present your idea to the board. Maybe putting together a pool committee would help. Assisting instead may help get what you all want.

Alan - I have checked with our FL county to determine when the pool underwater lights should be on/off. They should be off at the time that the pool is posted as closed. Perhaps your CA rules are different.
Are you expecting that they should be on all night?
It might be that a transformer needs to be replaced....or you need a new bulb/bulbs.

Alan,

You say that the Board is lazy. Since you posted that you have not gotten responses to your e-mails, I can understand that interpretation.

You say that the Board is greedy. Why do you think this. Nothing in your post implied anything about greed.

You ask if the Health Department should be informed but also specify that the Health Department is constantly monitoring the pool. Typically, the Health department is concerned about the quality of the water. Not if lights are being used at night.

You say that the Association has enough money but also stated that there is a special assessment. Typically, special assessments indicate that there is not enough money. You may want to do some more research into this.

You ask if there are ways to convince the Board to address this issue without resorting to drastic measures. Good for you to try and resolve the issue at the lowest level possible. However, you actually refer to the Board as lazy and greedy. Members of the Board are human, and sometimes how the issue is presented has more influence than the actual issue. Therefore, since your posting already demonstrates an animosity toward the Board, it may be better that someone else presents the issue to the Board (more flies with honey type of thing).

Now, I would think that the more members that raise the issue, the more pressure would be placed upon the board. Therefore, why not start a petition (you could set up a table at the pool) to ask the board the following:

1) Does the Board know why the pool lights are not working at night?
2) What can the members do to assist the Board in getting the lights working?

Hope this helps,

Tim

John,

That all sounds logical. Can you reference a document where you got this information?

All of the pools around here (north east) all have above ground lights shining in the pool. I dont think I've ever seen underwater lighting in a pool.

Thanks to Everyone who responded to my questions. Trying to clarify people concerns to give more details about association pool. Pool is fenced and locked all the time. Pool area is very visible to all surrounding units. No strangers attempts to enter were ever seen. Only Pool Maintenance, Health Dept, and unit owners have keys to enter. Pool hours are from 9:00 AM to 9:00 PM during summer. Pool closed for winter. For sure some unit owners do not use the pool and as someone mentioned want really to close it and to replace with child playground. Plus families with kids certainly use pool regularly. Pool will have to stay unless all of association members will agree to close it and to spend money to change initial architectural design and to spend even more money for construction. It would be much more expensive than to keep pool working. I was in Board several years and we compared prices before and change appeared not to be feasible. Our association is small and generally not hard to run it's property management. Pool does not have to be lit 24 hours daily. It should be lit only after dusk till pool closure at 9:00 PM. As I mentioned we did not receive denial note from Board yet and the price of replacing light timer is minimal. Recent special assessment was for exterior wall painting and 90% of expense was on unit owners. While everybody pays fees regularly there were complaints from landscape and pool services about long delayed payments to them. Plus Energy, Water Companies, and Garbage collectors stopped their services because of delays. There is no animosity toward board just we wanted minimum services to be provided as we pay our association fees to pay board members for their not very hard responsibilities.
So far we saw only forum explanations why it can't be done. But we hope someone on this forum will give us an advice how to make it working. Thanks a lot.

It would be my understanding even IF any Board member were in fact paid this would in no way affect your not for profit corporation status.

Thanks John! I agree that pool is considered as open once unit owners have access inside. Pool was sealed several times as Health Dept requested some safety inexpensive changes. Yes, our association is not non-profit. We pay taxes. And board members are paid on monthly basis. They are employed by our association. We realize that board members are volunteers for certain level. However to pay monthly bills is their general duty. The rest like minor repairs are rare. Now at least we can see the way we should act. We will notify insurance carrier about this issue. Hope they will remind board that fix is mandatory.

Alan

If you were to change the hours of the pool, you would need to send notice to the members for a 30 day comment. It is a "rule change" and must comply with Corporation Code.

In addition I have attached a link to a Farmer Insurance brochure that deals with associations.

http://www.davis-stirling.com/Portals/1/docs/Farmers-Loss-Control-brochure.pdf

The pool should be LOCKED down after dusk until lighting is repaired.

Careful what you wish for......

The insurance company could send someone over and they find 50 more things that need repair in order to keep coverage. Since this stuff is paid for by "you"..... you may be looking at a $9,000 special assessment to fix everything. Or the insurance company could just decide to drop you all together.

Offer to purchase the timer as a donation to the Association.
Gather support and offer to fix the lights.

From my earlier posting: Gather support and go to the Board as a group and ask how you can help make this happen.
From my earlier posting: Gather support and replace the Board so the new Board will approve the repair.


If assessments are being paid on time, then it sounds like the Board needs to be replaced with others who will write the checks on time OR a contractor be hired to do that for the Board (which I don't recommend but it's an option).

Are you sure assessments are actually being paid in full and on time?

Hopefully, the corporate annual report and taxes are being filed properly and on time.


Calling them greedy and lazy would indicate otherwise.


A reasonable desire. However, if your Board is not performing to expectations, it sounds like it's time for others to step up and serve so those expectations are met. If nobody is willing to step up, then you get those who are willing (regardless if they are good or not).


Are your Board members being paid (or was that just an expression)?

If they are being paid, I hope it is being done properly - they continue to pay assessments and checks are issued.

If they are being paid, were 1099-misc or W-2s issued? If not, the Association may have IRS issues. If this is the case, then the members are in for a rude awakening when assessments are increased to pay for those IRS issues.

If they are being paid, is it the Directors or the Officers who are being paid (they are two different positions even if filled by the same individual)?

If they are being paid, are contracts in place or an amount identified in the governing documents? If not, this can also cause issues.

If they are being paid, are they considered an independent contractor or an employee? Each one has it's own set of tax implications.


Based on what you provided, it sounds like you need to address the larger issue and replace the Board vs. worrying about the pool. OR were all the problems you mentioned with a past Board and this Board is working to correct them?

Most board members are not paid. Most CCR/Bylaws specifically state they cannot be paid.



Not only are you paying them, which is not normal, but they are doing a horrible job.

Why have you not replaced them?

Previously we were asking for advice in situation with pool underwater light down. We emailed request to fix it to the board and did not get even a reply. Looks like board went underground - no replies, no notifications, unit owners are been ignored. It is already June but pool water stays cold, filter is down, heater is down. Today we saw dead animal in a water. Tried to contact board and got the same reaction - silence. Please advice what we can do?

Alan,

If the dead animal is still in the pool, grab a pole net and remove it or contact the health department.

As for the request, whom did you send it to: One member of the Board, All members of the Board, the MC or the registered agent?

My suggestion would be to resend the request, via certified mail, to the registered agent with a copy to all the Board members.

As Glen pointed out, your Association may have larger problems and the pool is just a visual sign of those problems. I encourage you to become involved in the running of your Association. Start attending Board meetings and offer to serve on various committees. At the next annual meeting, submit your name to serve on the Board. This way you can be sure that there is someone on the Board (you) that will respond to members inquiries and you will be part of the decision process on resolving the issues you currently see and those issues you may not be aware of until you become a member of the Board.

FYI: How rat poisons work is not very pleasant. They basically dehydrate the rat from the inside out. It's not pleasant to think about. That is probably why they are going to the pool. It is to drink water which will never help and they fall in and die. I found this out when I had a rat issues. One rat crawled into the bottom of my fridge and died under the cooling fan... Spent 2 weeks without food in the house because had to kill the ones living in the pantry that caused the issue. I had had surgery and they moved in while I was not using the food areas as I was not cooking.

Board members are owners too. So why they would want their HOA in this condition puzzles me...

Your bylaws, Alan, probably state how many meetings a year your board must have. In CA, homeowners must be permitted to attend board meetings. Has your board had any meetings this year? Have you attended?

In CA, the annual budget, reserves, etc. is required to sent to every owner once a year. have you received one?

I agree with this who advise that your send each member of the board a certified letter, return receipt requested.

How many homes or units are there in your HOA?

Are you able to gather support as Tim suggests? Or not??

Did you check the websites that Richard suggested?