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StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
When our community was built, the pond was not aerated properly. They only installed one fountain and aerator. We will need to install another one. Since this is a new asset, would we be able to take this out of our community asset reserve? We are a somewhat newer community.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 05/13/2014 9:37 AM
When our community was built, the pond was not aerated properly. They only installed one fountain and aerator. We will need to install another one. Since this is a new asset, would we be able to take this out of our community asset reserve? We are a somewhat newer community.

Reserves are supposed to be used for re[air or replacement of existing assets, such as roof replacement, replacement or refurbishing of a clubhouse heating system, repaving roads and parking areas, etc. If you've planned your reserve contributions properly, you're supposed to have enough saved up to pay for what has to be done when it needs to be done. So, there really should be no extra to pay for new assets.

There are options, though:

1. You could have a special assessment to pay for the new assets.

2. If your documents allow it, you could borrow the money to purchase the new assets, but you would have to increase your regular assessments to repay the loan with interest.

3. You could borrow from your reserve fund, but again, you would have to increase your regular assessments to repay what you borrowed. It wouldn't be interest-free because you would also have to pay the interest on what you borrowed to replace the interest you will lose on your reserve fund. Also, you would have to make sure the money is replaced in time so you will have it when you need it to meet the purpose for which the reserve fund was originally intended.

4. You could increase your regular assessments and set the extra aside to pay for the new assets. Of course, you won't be able to get the new assets right away with this option.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> Reserves are supposed to be used for re[air or replacement of existing assets,

The pond is an existing asset. Well maybe not an asset, maybe even it's a liability, but it's part of the community and has to be maintained.

If you NEED more aeration (and I don't know why you do, but then I don't own a pond) then you need to buy whatever you need to make it happen. If you NEED aeration it's a lot closer to maintenance than improvement. If all it does is look pretty it's an improvement.

Does that help?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 05/13/2014 4:45 PM
> Reserves are supposed to be used for re[air or replacement of existing assets,

The pond is an existing asset. Well maybe not an asset, maybe even it's a liability, but it's part of the community and has to be maintained.

If you NEED more aeration (and I don't know why you do, but then I don't own a pond) then you need to buy whatever you need to make it happen. If you NEED aeration it's a lot closer to maintenance than improvement. If all it does is look pretty it's an improvement.

Does that help?

Nope. That's not how it works.

Example: We have a water heating system in our clubhouse. The water heater failed. Replacing the water heater is replacement of an existing asset. The reason the water heater failed is sediment from hard water. The addition of a water softener to prevent the problem in the future is not a remedy. It is the addition of a new asset and is not a capital expense. It is a capital improvement because it adds value.

The IRS looks at such things with very strict guidelines. If it maintains value, it is a capital expense. If it improves value, it is not a capital expense but adds to the basis for the cost of the asset so improved.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Steph

What makes you think/believe the pond needs more aeration? Is it a retention pond? Is it fed from any source (springs, brooks, etc.) other then storm water?

Thanks

StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Our builder went out of business. They were supposed to aerate the pond on both sides and place fountains on both sides. They only did the aerator/fountain on one side of the pond. We pay to treat the pond, but it needs both. It doesn't make sense to do a special assessment to pay for an asset that will be maintained by the asset reserve. It is adding assets that should have been made to the community initially. They also did not provide adequate lighting in the playground. This is an asset that should have been provided initially. I'm just not understanding.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Stephanie,

The issue is how the IRS would view the expenditure if the Association undergoes an audit.
Addi tonally, depending on the knowledge and experience of the individual who does your Associations' audit or financial review, how the expenditure is made may raise a flag to them.

If the individual who does the audit/review doesn't see an issue with it and if the Association doesn't get audited by the IRS or your State, then there is no issue.

However, as Bruce pointed out, if the Association is audited by the IRS or State, or the individual doing your annual audit/financial review, there may be consequences the Association will need to deal with.

What your Association does is up to your Board.

Tim
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Here are some links that may be helpful:

What is a Capital Improvement? from HOABrief.com

Capital Improvements vs. Reserve Expenses from reservestudy.com From the article:
What is the difference between a Capital Improvement and a Reserve project? Or more specifically, when can a Capital Improvement be more properly considered as a Reserve expense? This question becomes important to Association-governed communities s they consider what funds can be used (Reserves or a Special Assessment?) and what authority (homeowner vote?) is needed to execute the project.

Operating Expenses vs. Reserve Expenses vs. Capital Improvements from a HOA management blog.

Common Area Maintenance Versus Capital Improvements article from an attorney.

Repairs vs. Capital Improvements: Do the Final Regulations at Last Clarify the Distinction?

Capitalization v Repairs Audit Technique Guide from the IRS

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Much of this discussion sounds like the old argument over how many angels may dance on the head of a pin.

If state law is silent on the subject (and in most states it is silent), then it is within the discretion of the board of directors to fund the aerator however they wish. If you have sufficient funds in the reserve account and need the work done right away then do it. But remember that there is no free lunch; the money in the reserves must be replenished. This could be done by raising assessments or by levying a special assessment. No matter how you do it, your members have a new aerator to pay for now and one more to maintain in the future.

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Can they? Sure...or more accurately probably with a vote of your board.

Should they? Probably not. But if you have excess funds in your reserve fund, and have a plan in place to make sure the reserve fund remains fully funded in light of the new asset, then I wouldn't fret.

Bottom line is that the board has the authority to make financial decisions for the HOA. If the board can soundly justify the amount of money being spent, the way in which it's being spent, and the overall financial health of the HOA, then I would personally consider it. If it's digging a financial hole, or making a financial hole even deeper, such that you have to try to explain your way out of it in a way that would concern residents then probably not.

StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Thank you for your responses! I'm a new President and want to make sure to do everything by the book.
ByronP (Minnesota)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/13/2014 7:24 PM
Much of this discussion sounds like the old argument over how many angels may dance on the head of a pin.

If state law is silent on the subject (and in most states it is silent), then it is within the discretion of the board of directors to fund the aerator however they wish. If you have sufficient funds in the reserve account and need the work done right away then do it. But remember that there is no free lunch; the money in the reserves must be replenished. This could be done by raising assessments or by levying a special assessment. No matter how you do it, your members have a new aerator to pay for now and one more to maintain in the future.


IANAL but:

In MN I know that a few years back he law was changed and that is why we had to establish a contingency fund in addition to the reserve fund. In MN if it is not budgeted to come from reserves it can not.
StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
I spoke with the financial director of our management company, and he said that we can use the reserves for a capital improvement.
JackE1 (Indiana)
Posts: 26
Posted:
That's fine Stephanie but as others have said, the money needs to be replaced and actually added to because not only do you have one fountain, you now will have two that will need replacing down the road. The reason we are cautioning you so vigorously is that there are any number of HOA's that have robbed reserves to pay for things that should have been financed by other means in order to keep assessments artificially low. Then comes the time for X to be replaced and surprise, surprise the piggy bank is empty and a massive special assessment is required. Many times this policy is encouraged by members who expect to only be there for a short time and gone before the bill comes due.

Also health of reserves is a factor many lenders are now looking closely at before they will underwrite a mortgage.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
The original question was "Can reserves be used to purchase a new asset?"

The answer is: Yes they can.

The right question is "Should reserves be used to purchase a new asset?"

The answer is No, for all the reasons pointed out by the other responders.
StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
I think it depends on the health of the reserve accounts. We have done pricing on all of our assets, and we are in a very good position. We have very few assets in our community. We probably will raise dues by a small margin at the end of the year, but I want to know my options. I don't want to be in a situation where we have to. Thanks for all of your feedback. Sounds like this is a very heated subject.
StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
I think it depends on the health of the reserve accounts. We have done pricing on all of our assets, and we are in a very good position. We have very few assets in our community. We probably will raise dues by a small margin at the end of the year, but I want to know my options. I don't want to be in a situation where we have to. Thanks for all of your feedback. Sounds like this is a very heated subject.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 05/14/2014 1:47 PM

I think it depends on the health of the reserve accounts.

Not really.

Typically, even if 100% funded, the amount needed and placed in the Reserves is calculated based on the cost of expected maintenance and the cost to replace the item at the end of it's useful life. Therefore, as Larry pointed out, if money is taken from the Reserve to pay for something that wasn't calculated for, then either that money needs to be paid back (by increased assessments or a special assessment) or the expected maintenance or replacement will need to be deferred until the money is available.

Additionally, once the new item is installed, the Reserves will need to be adjusted to fund the costs of the expected maintenance and replacement of the new item.

Stephanie, does your Association account for your Reserves as one big pot of money or does it account for the Reserves by line item (x amount set aside for this, x amount set aside for that, etc.)?

I've found that by breaking the Reserves into line items (vs. one pot of money), it's easier for individuals to see if the money is really available or not.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/14/2014 3:58 PM
Posted By StephanieH5 on 05/14/2014 1:47 PM

I think it depends on the health of the reserve accounts.


Not really.

Typically, even if 100% funded, the amount needed and placed in the Reserves is calculated based on the cost of expected maintenance and the cost to replace the item at the end of it's useful life. Therefore, as Larry pointed out, if money is taken from the Reserve to pay for something that wasn't calculated for, then either that money needs to be paid back (by increased assessments or a special assessment) or the expected maintenance or replacement will need to be deferred until the money is available.

Additionally, once the new item is installed, the Reserves will need to be adjusted to fund the costs of the expected maintenance and replacement of the new item.

The firm I work for just loves people who think that reserve funds can be used to purchase new capital assets.

It often results in a new client after they receive their tax notices from the IRS.
StephanieH5 (Indiana)
Posts: 22
Posted:
Now I understand. No, we have it in two pots of money. One for our private alleys and one for community assets. I have obtained quotes on what it would take to replace all of our assets. We've just funded the reserves in the past at 10%. No plan was in place. So, you're saying that we need to find out how long the assets are calculated to last and budget a certain amount to each of the subcategories annually. That makes sense to me.

I'm not sure how a company that is managing 180 properties and works very closely with lawyers could be so misguided.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 05/14/2014 4:34 PM

So, you're saying that we need to find out how long the assets are calculated to last and budget a certain amount to each of the subcategories annually. That makes sense to me.

Yep. It's called a Reserve Study.

See Subject: Reserve Studies/Funds 101 a thread on this forum.

and

Reserve Study Webinars a list of various web based seminars about Reserves and Reserve studies. (I know nothing of the company providing the list, it's just a list of good resources).

Note, the last link also has a library of printed material under their "learning center" tab. I haven't had the time to go through it to say if the info is good or simply a sales tool.

Our Association did our first Reserve study by ourselves. It was done based on discussions with salesmen, engineers and historical records. A company would have done a better job but what we did was better than nothing (which is what we had). Even though our study wasn't as good as it could have been, we discovered that we needed to increase assessments a significant amount (I think 20%) to properly fund the reserves (based on the study done). Fortunately, the membership agreed to this and now we are far better off then we were.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Steph

The reason I asked about the fountain/aerator is we have a spring fed retention pond with a lovely fountain in the middle of it. 20 of we owners live on or can see the pond. Recently an owner (not one of the 20) questioned the cost of the fountain (electricity and future maintenance) and asked was it necessary or a was it a beautification installed by the builder? Several jumped to the challenge saying it is necessary for aeration. He replied fine, but can you show me what professional says so? He has a valid point and I am one of the 20....LOL

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
John,

Although the EPA Factsheet on wet detention ponds doesn't mention aerating the water (with use of a fountain), the Land Development Division of Greenfield County SC does recommend the installation of a aerator to help minimize the mosquitoes population (as it helps prevent the water from being stagnate).

Stephenie,

Both of those links I provided for John will give you an idea of the maintenance requirements for the ponds. Unless they are annual expenses, these maintenance items should be part of a Reserve Study and, hopefully, funded by the reserves.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/14/2014 7:06 PM

Stephenie,

err, Stephanie. Sorry about that.
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By StephanieH5 on 05/14/2014 4:34 PM
Now I understand. No, we have it in two pots of money. One for our private alleys and one for community assets. I have obtained quotes on what it would take to replace all of our assets. We've just funded the reserves in the past at 10%. No plan was in place. So, you're saying that we need to find out how long the assets are calculated to last and budget a certain amount to each of the subcategories annually. That makes sense to me.

I'm not sure how a company that is managing 180 properties and works very closely with lawyers could be so misguided.

Yup.
Think of it like this...

Suppose you have a deck on your house that will cost $20k to replace and you know that it need to be replaced in 20 years. You would budget for, and put away in a reserve fund (the bank account of your choosing) $1000 every year. Then, when the deck needs to be replaced, you have the $20k on hand and don't need to take a big financial hit that was unexpected.

Now, 20 years is a long time to forecast, so you would probably take a look at it every 3-5 years. Maybe after 5 years you might find it'll cost $22k to replace, but will last ANOTHER 20 years. You already have $5k in the bank from the first 5 years, so you'll need $17k more over the next 20 years. You then adjust your reserve fund deposit to $850 per year. Rinse & repeat a few years later.

Some will try to factor in inflation & interest, but that's even more difficult and unnecessary imho. The goal is to get close to minimize the shock. There's no prize for having predicted to the penny how much something costs in the future.

If your association is maintaining a reserve fund that is 10% of the annual budget (often a legal minimum) then you're probably under-funded.

The flip-side is the people who will complain that they won't be there 20 years from now, so why should they have to pay money in now? To them I say "too damn bad". That's a rare case when an HOA might actually increase value of a home. I suspect a buyer would be reluctant to pay top dollar if they knew the HOA was slacking on reserves and that they might be expected to pay a few thousand $$ to replace/repair that which has not been budgeted for.

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