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Storm damage debris removel

Started by RobertD21 • 14 replies • 1638 views

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RobertD21 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Five houses in our community of 50 homeowners suffered significant flood damage from the record rains in the NW Florida area.
Those five residents ripped out damaged carpeting, flooring, drywall, etc. and piled it at the end of their driveways. Because of the widespread flood debris to be picked up, the county was unable to give a firm date for the pickup of our trash. The board hired a contractor to remove the trash. Some homeowners (that suffered no damage) are complaining that it was not the HOA's responsibility. I believe the HOA did the right thing.
BTW: the association is very solvent.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
I can guarantee you that if the association didn't pay to have it picked up you would have had complaints about that.

If the county would have eventually picked up the debris- I think it's purely a judgement call.

RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Were your actions 'in the best interest of the community?
That is the actionable motive to your decision(s) as a fiduciary.

Do you have a 'general reserve' amongst your reserve 'accounts'?

or, What line item in the budget did the monies come from?

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
RobertD21 (Florida)
Posts: 5
Posted:
RwT:

The trash was a safety (kids playing around) hazard and it stunk and was mold infested

The board voted in favor of the trash removal

Don't know about the line item, I am the architectural review person on the board
We are fairly flush with money
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Robert,

This was a judgment call, as previously noted. I would have voted to spend HOA funds to remove the stuff and I could not care less about what line item the expense gets charged to.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Simple. The HOA would charge the homes that caused the HOA to incur costs. If house #10 needed 2 dumpsters and labor, they get charged for 2 dumpsters and labor. Very, very simple.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 05/09/2014 12:24 PM
Simple. The HOA would charge the homes that caused the HOA to incur costs. If house #10 needed 2 dumpsters and labor, they get charged for 2 dumpsters and labor. Very, very simple.

Since the storm was an act of God, why not sue every church in the county for the costs of cleanup?

Seriously, since this was casualty damage to the homes the HOA could and should try to recover its costs from the homeowners' insurance company.
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 05/09/2014 12:17 PM
Robert,
...I could not care less about what line item the expense gets charged to.


That's a 'luxury' you have in AZ.

In FL we have other 'hoops' to jump thru regarding the expenditure of reserve funds.

This can be a problem especially if there are a large number of upset HOs.
* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
As described removal of this debris was a county responsibility. Probably everywhere else in the county there were scattered piles of stinking trash. The homeowners could say: it's a disaster; disaster cleanup is provided by the county; I do not have a duty to pay.

If the HOA pays it is mostly for the benefit of the OTHER homeowners, who otherwise would have to wait.

I suspect that not all homeowners are disturbed about this and I also suspect it really wasn't that much money.

Disaster response does not require a line item it seems to me.

Now if it had been construction debris- that is a WHOLE other story.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
ripped out damaged carpeting, flooring, drywall, etc. and piled it at the end of their driveways.


Quote:
Now if it had been construction debris- that is a WHOLE other story.


Yeah, it was construction debris. See above. Each house should have had a dumpster or at the very least one of those Bagster or similar dumpster bags.
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 05/09/2014 1:48 PM
As described removal of this debris was a county responsibility. Probably everywhere else in the county there were scattered piles of stinking trash. The homeowners could say: it's a disaster; disaster cleanup is provided by the county; I do not have a duty to pay.

If the HOA pays it is mostly for the benefit of the OTHER homeowners, who otherwise would have to wait.

I suspect that not all homeowners are disturbed about this and I also suspect it really wasn't that much money.

Disaster response does not require a line item it seems to me.

Now if it had been construction debris- that is a WHOLE other story.

I agree the expenditure(s) are for assn. benefit. Fiduciary duty was exemplified by due diligence. And I too doubt there will be any real backlash.

The comments regarding specific caveats in FL law are for the benefit of the OP, not necessarily those in AZ.

Make light of it, as we residents do, but realize because such 'abuse' has occurred here in the past it is now the law here.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Robert

I have mixed emotions about the HOA paying and lean toward they probably should not have paid. My first reaction is it was restoration/construction work and the homeowner or their insurance company should have paid for removal. The more I type and think about this, my belief is no longer mixed.

The HOA should not have paid.

Might I be cynical and think you might have been one of the 5 and in a position to approve such an expenditure?

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
If you want to get technical, it should be the homeowners' responsibility to remove the debris at their expense, which may or may not be reimbursed by their insurers.

The OP indicated some expectation that the county would remove the debris. I cannot imagine why it would be any more the county's responsibility than the association's. Since all parties waited for the county to act the problem with the flood debris just got worse.

The situation as I understood it was that there were several piles of rotting, stinking, rodent-infested, flood debris sitting within the boundaries of the development. It was an immediate problem requiring an immediate action. The whole association was suffering as a result of delayed clean-up from a flood in five units. The association had the need for an immediate clean-up and the resources to make it happen. Even though I support the association taking action to clean up the mess, I would nonetheless seek reimbursement from the homeowners' insurance companies.

I am sure there are those who would argue that the because HOA is not responsible it should take no action except to issue threats of future fines against the owners. That solves no problems.
JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
You've put yourself in a tough spot to say the least, it's an understandable move on the HOA's part, however, that was the responsibility of the homeowners only in my understanding of what you've posted.

Future storms causing damage will be the fall out from here, and every homeowner that is aware of this decision will send you the bill, or wait for you to send in the cleaning crews.

If you didn't ask the homeowners about reimbursement before, you surely can't ask for it now. I would doubt the homeowners involved will be too interested in paying back the association, it could have sat there until the county picked it up if it meant it were free. If it became a health and safety issue, then you have to be the squeaky wheel to get the pick up done.

Stating your HOA is flush with money is not a reason for spending the money and I would be doubly angry at the board if that was given in defense.

Maybe if you use it as a lesson that the board had to go through because of the storm etc and promise it won't happen again and then spell out what rules and regs you will put in place to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's all you can do at this point and as a homeowner, I would accept that explanation etc, because you owned up to it, I wouldn't like it in the least, but it is what it is and no homeowner would want the HOA to come after them after the fact and demand repayment. j

Good luck!
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We have had several tornados in our area. The county is responsible for cleanup. Although it takes time for them to get to the areas. Too much debris and not enough resources to put them in. Plus often have to separate the type of debris.
Having been where the OP is, I understand the decision. What factors in is if the HOA property is COMMON or not. In our case the HOA owns ALL the property around the homes. It is NOT individuals. So the decision to hire a contractor would be the HOA's. Our city has a rule that they ONLY pick up debris NOT gathered by paid contractors. So if we paid someone to remove the damage, we had to pay a contractoe to carry it away. If the owner did their own work, then the city cleaned it up.
I found this out due to the con man ex president who strapped us with a bill. He did a job for us and left the debris on the side of the road. He then called the city to report he was a contractor who left debris to be picked up. The city refused or was going fine us. So we had to hire someone. Guess who volunteered with a bid???? Yeah that is right... No he did NOT get the job...
So depends on the situation. I would have waited a bit longer due to the circumstances. Remember the HOA money is ALL members money. So when you pay a bill with HOA funds your spending everyones money...
Former HOA President

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