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Started by JohnW33 • 9 replies • 1496 views

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JohnW33 (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Hi,

I have recently been elected to the board of a small self-managed HOA in bay area (CA).
Unfortunately (or fortunately?), everyone on the board is new to HOAs, so we're slowly feeling our way around. The management company that was originally in charge handed it over to us but stayed behind for bookkeeping/etc. They did give us some training at our first meeting, but it's already showing that it's not enough.

Specifically, we have a member with a complaint about a compounded late fee charge -- and I have a suspicion that since the management co. keeps the late fees to itself, it's not in their interests to freely disclose some possible actions the board may take. So far their advice had been to either consider waiving the late fee (paying them out of HOA budget) or to leave the whole thing alone.

Another concern is that the management co. representative told me that HOA meeting attendance is strictly for members, and a member cannot have someone represent them instead. But a friend board member from a completely unrelated HOA tells me this should be allowed in order to comply with CA real estate law.

Other than asking these kinds of questions here, where do people normally go? Does signing up for something like caionline.org provide help with this, too? Or do they charge extra on top of membership fees?

Thanks!

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569

Posted:

One reads, rereads, and then reads again the Covenants and Restrictions filed with the deeds ~ then one studies them AGAIN and AGAIN.

Then one reads the corporate bylaws which govern the association which was formed to apply and enforce the CCRs.

After this is accomplished if one still has questions one contacts an attorney versed in BOTH contract AND real estate law.

Either the late fee is addressed by the CCRs or it is not.

Either the member has a POA or Proxy on file or they do not.

Case is now closed as your question has been answered.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

John,

Here are some links that may be helpful:

davis-stirling.com a menu driven web site that is good at plain language explanation of CA laws applicable to HOAs

Best Practices #1 - Reserve Studies/Management

Best Practices #2 - Governance

Best Practices #3 - Strategic Planning

Best Practices #4 - Financial Operations

Best Practices #5 - Community Harmony and Spirit

Subject: Reserve Studies/Funds 101 HOATalk Thread

Subject: How to read a statute (law) HOATalk Thread

Community Associations Network CA page (a sponsor of this site)

Hope this helps,

Tim

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Quote:

Another concern is that the management co. representative told me that HOA meeting attendance is strictly for members, and a member cannot have someone represent them instead. But a friend board member from a completely unrelated HOA tells me this should be allowed in order to comply with CA real estate law.

Laws regarding power of attorney are above any local policy the mgmt company may have. They are just making this stuff up and hoping the sheep follow.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Remember the relationship between the HOA BOD and the MC. The MC is a SUB-CONTRACTOR to the HOA. The MC is to do what the HOA BOD tells them to do under their contract. These lines often and do get blurred. Especially if you have a board who practiced the old "Hire a MC to do the job" attitude. Basically being figure heads and making the MC do all the heavy lifting instead.

You may want to change how your HOA BOD does business after reading up on what Tim has posted. The HOA BOD is elected to represent the HOA as a WHOLE. The MC is hired to assist the BOD/HOA in certain operations. A MC contract can vary from HOA to HOA. There is no cookie cutter agreement. We just had a bookkeeper for finances and communications. Our HOA made the decisions in regards to violations. Although we had the bookkeeper file the liens when necessary for our 6 month we lien policy.

There's a lot to learn. Please read over some of the older posts in here. Don't reinvent the wheel. See how the others wheels run/ran and use that information as a helpful guide. There is no one all fit all solution. Feel free to ask questions and come back often. Good luck!

Former HOA President

JohnW33 (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Thanks everyone,
I obviously have a lot of research ahead of me

Quote:

Posted By SteveM9 on 05/07/2014 6:05 AM

Laws regarding power of attorney are above any local policy the mgmt company may have. They are just making this stuff up and hoping the sheep follow.

That seems to run contrary to this page:

http://www.davis-stirling.com/tabid/2029/Default.aspx
Who May Attend Membership Meetings?
Associations may restrict attendance at membership meetings to members only, if they so choose. Members may not send non-members by making them proxyholders. They can designate only members to attend in their place. (Civ. Code §5130(a)(1).)

What am I missing here?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767

Posted:

John

HOA's can limit who may attend general session Board meetings. Our association will allow a renter to attend as long as they can behave themselves.

As far as the POA, in an HOA, its not worth the paper its written on. Real Estate Law does not regulate HOA meetings, Corporation Code and Civil Code does.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnW33 on 05/08/2014 1:14 PM

Posted By SteveM9 on 05/07/2014 6:05 AM

Laws regarding power of attorney are above any local policy the mgmt company may have. They are just making this stuff up and hoping the sheep follow.

You are missing the word "may".

This means that it is the Board's option. The MC may be telling you something a previous board instituted (which your Board may change if they wish) or the MC may be telling you what they desire and are hoping that someone on the Board isn't aware that it's the Board option to allow or not allow non-members to attend.

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnW33 on 05/06/2014 7:09 PM
Hi,

I have recently been elected to the board of a small self-managed HOA in bay area (CA).
Unfortunately (or fortunately?), everyone on the board is new to HOAs, so we're slowly feeling our way around. The management company that was originally in charge handed it over to us but stayed behind for bookkeeping/etc. They did give us some training at our first meeting, but it's already showing that it's not enough.

Specifically, we have a member with a complaint about a compounded late fee charge -- and I have a suspicion that since the management co. keeps the late fees to itself, it's not in their interests to freely disclose some possible actions the board may take. So far their advice had been to either consider waiving the late fee (paying them out of HOA budget) or to leave the whole thing alone.

Another concern is that the management co. representative told me that HOA meeting attendance is strictly for members, and a member cannot have someone represent them instead. But a friend board member from a completely unrelated HOA tells me this should be allowed in order to comply with CA real estate law.

Other than asking these kinds of questions here, where do people normally go? Does signing up for something like caionline.org provide help with this, too? Or do they charge extra on top of membership fees?

Thanks!

Johnw33, I was in your shoes last year and want to encourage you to not be too worried about what your about to embark on. The info it here online somewhere, just give yourself time to immerse yourself in all things HOA for a few weeks to get your feet wet. One thing I did with this forum was see the questions that were posted and try to answer them with our own HOA docs, because ultimately it's what YOUR docs and state laws say as to the correct answer. It was very helpful and after two or three questions, all the governing docs, (ccr's bylaws etc) began to make proper sense to me and I felt more comfortable in my 'board shoes".

Good luck!

This site has also been very, very helpful as there are knowledgeable people who have been there and done that enough times to give valuable advice.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By SteveM9 on 05/07/2014 6:05 AM

Laws regarding power of attorney are above any local policy the mgmt company may have. They are just making this stuff up and hoping the sheep follow.

I agree with this.

State law requires that members must be allowed to attend. I am unaware of any statutes in any state that prohibit the attendance of anyone else or authorize the board to prohibit others with an interest from attending. I have seen no support in the law for the proposition that a requirement to allow owners to attend is a license to prohibit all others from attending.

While it is of no help in this situation, the law in AZ explicitly allows an owner to authorize someone else to attend on his behalf.

The Davis-Sterling website claims that CA law allows a board to deny attendance of an owner's attorney and cites a court case for this authority. I read the case and it does not address the issue. The case dealt with a side issue as to whether an owner was entitled to a preliminary injunction without fulfilling the requirement of showing that irreparable damage would result without the injunction.

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