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MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Hi,
Our HOA is in Chantilly, Fairfax county, VA. Is there a statutory time limit to challenge election results? Our HOA election was held june,2013. All the results were validated by the management company. Yesterday, the member who got unseated is threatening to sue the HOA for conducting elections in a improper way. That is rougly 11 months after. Is it valid?

The complaint is that there were too may proxies hand carried to the election meeting. These proxies were cast and signed by the homeowner(s). They were hand carried by a community resident. Are these invalid?

Thanks for your time.
Mahesh
RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/29/2014 1:30 PM
Hi,
Our HOA is in Chantilly, Fairfax county, VA. Is there a statutory time limit to challenge election results? Our HOA election was held june,2013. All the results were validated by the management company. Yesterday, the member who got unseated is threatening to sue the HOA for conducting elections in a improper way. That is rougly 11 months after. Is it valid?

The complaint is that there were too may proxies hand carried to the election meeting. These proxies were cast and signed by the homeowner(s). They were hand carried by a community resident. Are these invalid?

Thanks for your time.
Mahesh

Have you established any of the 'facts' of the complaint?

i.e.: Is their a limit to the number of proxies that can be hand delivered in Va.?

Any limitations to a challenge would be moot if there is none.

Were they sealed upon arrival?

Check your docs. and state laws for the basis of the complaint.
The latter is easily searched on-line.

The threat of a law suit is likely 'hot air' BTW.


* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Mahesh,

From my research, there is a limitation on challenging an amendment to the governing documents. See VA § 55-515.1, or § 55-79.71 if in a condominium.

As for elections for Directors, VA § 13.1-861, applicable if your Association is incorporated as a non-profit (most are), allows for elections to be challenged. However, I could find nothing that limited the time frame for when that challenge could occur.

I suspect that the date the records were requested, the length of time it took to have access to the records granted, etc. would all come into play as to if a challenge is valid.

Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/29/2014 1:30 PM

All the results were validated by the management company. Yesterday, the member who got unseated is threatening to sue the HOA for conducting elections in a improper way. That is rougly 11 months after. Is it valid?

I suppose that this should be a decision for the courts.

However, if I were on your Board, I would encourage the Board to conduct it's own investigation. Perhaps inviting that individual to participate. The Board would essentially be investigating the MC, since they were the election officials, therefore, the MC could not be used as part of the investigation.

I would do this to: a) was something amiss that needs corrected. b) Resolve the issue at the lowest level possible (i.e. try to keep it from going to the courts).

Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/29/2014 1:30 PM

The complaint is that there were too may proxies hand carried to the election meeting. These proxies were cast and signed by the homeowner(s). They were hand carried by a community resident. Are these invalid?

Statutes regarding proxies are contained within the corporate statutes.
See VA Nonstock Corporation Act, applicable if your Association is incorporated as a nonprofit (most are).

Specifically, you should review:
§ 13.1-847. Proxies
§ 13.1-847.1. Voting procedures and inspectors of elections
and § 13.1-848. Corporation's acceptance of votes.

RwT (Florida)
Posts: 154
Posted:
A QUICK scan finds nothing in the few links provided above with regards to the number of proxies or delivery method a party or parties my or may not convey.

Your assn. docs MAY however limit the number of proxies any one party may have assigned to them. I have seen such, 5 for example.

Most of these type of 'threats' are often based on assumptions, hearsay, or other less-than-informed opinions.

If you must be involved, spend your time researching the links provided and don't worry about threats to do this or that.

You have no control of another's actions and most likely it won't happen anyways.

* Non-Lawyer spokesperson.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/29/2014 1:30 PM

the member who got unseated is threatening to sue the HOA for conducting elections in a improper way.

I never worry about threats of lawsuits that come from non-attorneys. If he had engaged the services of an attorney I would take him a little more seriously. Even then, I usually don't worry until the process server shows up with a summons and complaint.

The type of lawsuit this member is talking about will set him back a minimum of $20,000 with no upper limit. If he loses he could end up being ordered to pay your costs plus his own. Since it does not appear that he has been willing to pony up the first $300 for an initial consultation I would not lose any sleep over his threats.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RwT on 04/29/2014 5:15 PM

Your assn. docs MAY however limit the number of proxies any one party may have assigned to them. I have seen such, 5 for example.

However, if they do, that limitation might not withstand a legal challenge.
MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you RwT, TimB4, LarryB13 for your kindness in helping me.

I looked at the inquiry and its findings conducted by the attorney. The attorney refers to VA Property Owner's Association Act 55-508 which does not contain any information about proxies and statutory time limit. I also checked our HOA's bye laws and it does say that a person can cast proxy votes and is limited to 5. But in our case, each of the proxy vote(s) were cast by the owner(s) themselves. It was not a single person casting proxy votes for others. The owner(s) themselves were casting their own proxy vote(s). And the owners indicated on the proxy that they are voting and agreeing for the quorum. I went around and collected these proxies and then hand it over to the mgmnt. company before the election night. I had to do this because, majority of the residents don't respond well to these kind of things and we have to conduct election multiple times because quorum is not there. It costs money & time. We need atleast 20% of roughly 130 homes.

Nobody on the HOA board was informed about this complaint and the initiation of the inquiry by the board except one person who is president. I feel that there was no discussion and was a unilateral decision. The person who was unseated last year was previous president. The current president and the unseated one had uninterrupted stint on the board for last 12 years.

Facts of the complaint so far is: The proxy form was incorrect format, hence no quorum and no vote

Suggestion by the attorney is to unseat the last two members who got elected in 2013 and re-instate 2 previous members even though their tenure is over.

I compared the previous proxy form and the suggested one. Except for moving words around, they are same.

This whole thing has turned sour because the new members are making the processes more transparent, not allowing for any unilateral decision. The old guard is not happy with it. I agree this is a frivolous attempt to unseat newly elected members and all the parties are ganging up on new members. Also, the attorney is our HOA auditor as well, which we recently renewed the contract to continue. Is it not a conflict of interest?

Thank you so much for your time.
Mahesh
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/30/2014 5:17 AM

The owner(s) themselves were casting their own proxy vote(s).

Perhaps you have the terminology wrong.

There are proxies and there are ballots.

A Proxy form identifies someone to vote on behalf of the member.
A Ballot is the actual vote.

Typically, if the member shows up to the meeting they invalidate the proxy (actually they revoke their proxy).
This allows the member to then cast a ballot in person. Yet, technically, unless the individual told the inspector of elections that the proxy is revoked, then, technically, only the named proxy representative is entitled to vote. This may be the technicality the person challenging the election is using.

OR, since 55-508 discusses applicability, perhaps there is a conflict in your governing documents and the statute and the Association chose to follow the Statute vs. following the governing documents as, per 55-508, perhaps the governing documents had control.

Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/30/2014 5:17 AM

Nobody on the HOA board was informed about this complaint and the initiation of the inquiry by the board except one person who is president.

Since the President is considered the face and voice of the Association and the Board, it appears that the Association was informed. It was the President who failed to inform the rest of the board or the MC. That is not the members fault.

Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/30/2014 5:17 AM

The proxy form was incorrect format, hence no quorum and no vote

Well, the format would be addressed by the Corporate law I provided earlier. It's possible that the member and/or their attorney failed to look at the applicable Corporate law.

If there was no quorum, then business could not be conducted and you will need to hold another election.

Now, to throw a curve into this, those same individuals were the ones who established the procedures and accepted the results of the election. Therefore, one could argue that since the old board accepted the results (and they were part of the old board) that the results should stand. I suspect that those same individuals also approved the proxy form that was used.

Quote:
Posted By MaheshK1 on 04/30/2014 5:17 AM

Suggestion by the attorney is to unseat the last two members who got elected in 2013 and re-instate 2 previous members even though their tenure is over.

Technically, the attorney's suggestion would be correct. Per § 13.1-857. Terms of directors generally:

"F. Except in the case of ex-officio directors, despite the expiration of a director's term, a director continues to serve until his successor is elected and qualifies or until there is a decrease in the number of directors, if any. "

Therefore, if there was no quorum, there was no election and, per the above statute, those individuals would have stayed on the board. I would counter by offering to simply hold a new election.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Mahesh,

Is your post related to the one at
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/173033/view/topic/Default.aspx

That post is also from someone in Virginia and mentions a limit of five proxies.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Larry,

That limit is in that OP's (Mike) governing documents.
There is no limit specified in VA statutes.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/30/2014 12:44 PM
Larry,

That limit is in that OP's (Mike) governing documents.
There is no limit specified in VA statutes.

Tim,

It was pretty clear in the other thread (Mike's) that the five-proxy-limit was something in his associations bylaws. But in this thread the OP stated in a follow-up, "I also checked our HOA's bye laws and it does say that a person can cast proxy votes and is limited to 5."

This week is the first time I have encountered bylaws with limitations on how many proxies a person may vote. But in one week we have two posters, each from Virginia and each citing a limit of five proxies. I am wondering if both parties are from the same association or if this is just a coincidence.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 04/30/2014 10:20 PM
But in one week we have two posters, each from Virginia and each citing a limit of five proxies. I am wondering if both parties are from the same association or if this is just a coincidence.

Yep, it's the first time I've heard of a limitation in the number of proxies either.

And yet in Mike's thread, it was also mentioned that the Uniform Common Interest Ownership Act (UCIOA)also has a limitation. Note: its the 2008 version that has the limitation (the section about proxies starts on page 161).

This makes a total of three individuals citing some sort of limitations on proxies in a week.

My personal opinion is that if the Board may hold any number of undirected proxies (i.e. general proxies), then a member should be able to hold any number of proxies. Otherwise, it may be even more difficult than it is to remove a rogue board.

MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks TimB4, LarryB13.

I'll look into the thread you sent me.

If the owner doesn't want to physically be at elections but want to vote, they chose to fill in this proxy form to exercise their vote. So, they fill up the proxy form as instructed, sign it and mail it as instructed. Nobody voted on their behalf, they themselves filled it, chose the candidate and signed it. In this occasion, instead of mail, one designated person collected all the proxy votes and gave it to the management company. Will that work towards being valid?

Thanks
Mahesh
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Mahesh,

I'm not sure you're understanding the difference between proxies and ballots.

A proxy is an individual identified to act for another and vote on their behalf. The individual is typically identified as a proxy representative by having a member fill out a proxy form.

The two basic types of proxies are general and directed. A general proxy identifies the individual who will vote on behalf of the member and allows that individual to cast the vote as they think is best. A directed proxy still identifies the individual who will vote on behalf of the member but that individual is also "directed" to cast a vote a specific way.

Ballots are what you record the vote on.

When counting the votes, you only count the ballots. This means that even when you have directed proxies, there needs to be a ballot filled out for each of the directed proxies.

Perhaps these articles can explain it better:

Proxies and Written Ballots - What's the Big Difference?

Written Ballot vs. Proxies

To Proxy or Not to Proxy, that is the Question

Hope this helps,

Tim
MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks TimB4.

How can a home owner vote using the proxy form in the situation where there is no individual available to act on their behalf? The home owner is unable to attend the election meeting. The home owner is required to cast their vote as well as indicate that they are part of quorum. What should home owner do in this situation?

Above situation is a typical scenario in our community.

Thanks
Mahesh
MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thanks TimB4. The first article gives me more insight. I think, I hand carried ballots of home owners to the management company.

Thanks
Mahesh
MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Hello TimB4,
The ballots contained choices of their vote and the quorum selection. Will this be a valid vote and provide required quorum? This ballot was also signed by the home owner.

Thanks
Mahesh
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Well, this has be ask the following questions:

1) Do your governing documents allow voting by mail? If not, in my opinion, the vote is invalid.

2) Were the ballots sealed? If not, it allows the perception of wrong doing.

Typically, the best way to vote by mail is the two envelope system. This is where the ballot is stuffed inside a sealed envelope and that envelope is stuffed inside another envelope that is signed by the member. This way the elections inspector can verify that the envelope came from the member and valid. At the meeting, the internal envelope is placed with the other ballots and opened when the ballots are counted. This allows the vote to be secret.
MaheshK1 (Virginia)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Thank you so much TimB4. Yes, our HOA allows either by fax or by mail. I hand carried the ballots openly to the management company. They accepted it and counted those as valid. That's what makes it confusing. At that time every one was ok, but after 11 months things have turned sour, because the member did not get re-elected.

Thanks
Mahesh

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