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JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
This year was the first in 7 years that the Regular Assessment has been increased by the HOA. This increase was done without a meeting of the Association. The only notice that the homeowners received was a letter from the management company that provides accounting services and enforces the CC&R's.
I thought this to be unusual since there was not meeting where the homeowners and the developer could discuss the reason of the increase. The developer has the majority votes and the increase would go through anyway.

I looked in our CC&R's and found the Section that talks to Regular Assessments and assessments in general. I found this verbage under Section 7.9 that seems to indicate that a meeting is required whenever there is an increase in the Regular Assessment. Here is the verbage:

7.9 Special Notice and Quorum Requirements. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in either the Bylaws or the Articles, written notice of any meeting called for the purpose of levying a Special Assessment, or for the purpose of obtaining a membership vote in connection with an increase in the Regular Assessment, shall be sent to all Members of the Association and to any person in possession of a Building Lot in the applicable Tract, not less than fifteen (15) days not more than (30) days before such meeting. At the first such meeting called, the presence of Members or of proxies entitled to cast sixty percent (60%) of the total votes of the Association shall constitute a quorum. (It then continues and explains what needs to happen if a quorum is not reached).

My contention, using this Section 7.9 is that there needs to be a written notice, and a meeting whenever there is a INCREASE of REGULAR ASSESSMENT. I understand the fact that on an annual basis there is a process where the Association determines if the revenue is sufficient to cover the expenses for the year. If not then an increase in dues is required to cover the new expense level and evenlly distributed to all homeowners.

My only question is based on Section 7.9 and what it is saying. I believe it is saying that if there is an increase in the Regular Assessment a notice, meeting, and vote must take place.

If someone could shed some light on this it would be much appreciate.

Joe
Idaho
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
If the developer is still in charge and has not handed the HOA over yet, he can do whatever he wants.

If the HOA has been handed over to the members, but he would have won the dues increase anyway, its just a matter of semantics and following procedure, but it would result in the same outcome. Fight it if you want, but the outcome will remain the same..... dues increase.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
An increase in the regular assessment and a "special Assessment" are two different animals. If it takes a membership vote combined with a required quorum to increase the "regular assessment", then it's going to be tough to ever raise the regular assessments. It seems that developers usually have a history of understating the regular assessment and after they turn it over, it's your problem. Once it gets turned over, a reserve study is recommended so that you can set aside funds to go into the reserve fund every year. The language is a little confusing. I would think that a mailing or notice should be sent for the increase in the regular assessment, but requiring a meeting with a membership vote, sounds unreasonable. You might not ever be able to raise the regular assessment.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Joe,

Thank your lucky stars for the increase your developer has put into effect. If any increase, no matter how small, requires a meeting and member approval your common elements will crumble to dust before your eyes. Your association now has a fighting chance of staying alive for a few more years. Once the developer is out of the picture you will be faced with having to sell increases to those whose only concern is keeping their costs down regardless of the consequences. Sell now and move before the stuff hits the fan.

Just for comparison, AZ allows a board of directors to increase assessments by 20% over the previous year without member approval.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Joseph,

As others have indicated, it is possible that the Board may raise assessments a certain amount without membership approval. This varies from Association to Association. As an example, Larry indicated that his Board can raise up to 20%, my association is limited to 5% without membership approval.

JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thank you for your response. The only reason I am even questioning the Regular Assessment increase is the wording in Section 7.9 which is confusing. I am not questioning the ability of the Association (currently the developer) to increase dues. In fact since the developer has the majority of votes almost to the end of build out, the developer would always win the vote and always have a quorum. My only question was, based on the verbage in Section 7.9, is the developer still required to have a notice, meeting, and vote?

Based on just a Regular Assessment Increase why would Section 7.9 even need to be written???
There are other sections that speak to Special Assessments and dues increases over a certain percentages, so why 7.9?

Joe
Idaho
JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Larry,
Thanks for your response but In my situation the developer has control until the property is almost completely built out. The developer has nothing to worry about. All I am trying to do is make sense of the Section 7.9. Why even have a section 7.9 that speaks to a meeting if the Regular Assessment is increased? That section is very confusing based on the replys I am receiving. The developer is going to get a quorum, just by showing up, and will win the vote. I just wanted to have the meeting so as to discuss the why, where, what and how of increase of expenses that required the dues increase. I would think the developer would want to be transparent and have an open dialogue.

Joe
JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Tim,
Thanks for your response. Unfortunately there is nothing in our CC&R's that limit the increase of the Regular Assessment. We do have a limit of 20% on Special Assessments, and anything over that would require a membership approval. As I have answered elsewhere, the developer has the voting control until the property is almost completely built out. After reading the responses I am now wondering why the Section 7.9 even included the increase in Regular Assessments.

Joe
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
After reading the responses I am now wondering why the Section 7.9 even included the increase in Regular Assessments.


Typically your docs are for you to abide by "after" the developer turns control over to the members. Its basically a book of his rules. In the meantime, the developer can change anything they want. Until he turns control over to the members the role of the board of directors, officers, etc is very, very limited.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Joseph,

What Steven said above. At this point, since the developer controls the association through his voting power he can change a lot of things at will.

But to answer your question about Section 7.9, suppose the developer did sent out notices, held a meeting, and took a vote. How would the final results be any different? Even if every owner attended and voted against the increase, the developer's votes would carry the day.

Technically, the developer did not follow his own rules. Yes, he should have done so but as a practical matter it makes no difference as the outcome is precisely the same.

BTW, I have said this before and will continue to say it: The most important lesson I have learned from this forum is never buy into a development that is not yet complete because so many things can go wrong before the developer is finished.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Joseph, often CC&R's are not written from scratch but the Declarants and or their attorneys have boilerplate CC&R's and they pick an choose sections and stitch together a set for a particular development. Often there are confusing or contradictory phrases. You mention in one of your subsequent posts: There are other sections that speak to Special Assessments and dues increases over a certain percentages, so why 7.9?

The way I would interpret it is that if the dues increase was at or under the percentage, then no homeowner involvement required, so no vote required. Increase over the allowed percentage then 7.9 would apply which would require a homeowner vote.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/18/2014 9:58 AM
Joseph,

As others have indicated, it is possible that the Board may raise assessments a certain amount without membership approval. This varies from Association to Association. As an example, Larry indicated that his Board can raise up to 20%, my association is limited to 5% without membership approval.


Same here. 5% per year without membership approval.
JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
I don't see anything in 7.9 that requires a meeting. I read it as giving the notice and quorum requirements if you have a meeting -- not that you must have a meeting. The heading is "Special Notice and Quorum Requirements.". It does not say meeting requirement.

I agree with Glen's comments. There was probably a deleted provision that spoke of when to have a meeting. 7.9 is probably just a remnant.
SG3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 63
Posted:
"I don't see anything in 7.9 that requires a meeting. "

This is kind of splitting hairs here. An increase happens as the result of a meeting discussion. So, If you read it as above, then if an increase is not the sole purpose of the meeting -- ie is only one agenda item, such as during a regular board meeting -- then no notice/vote/approval is required? Whereas, if a special meeting were called exclusively to discuss a rate increase, in that case, notice/vote/approval is required.

The only inference that might make sense there is if, as mentioned, the board can increase as they please up to a certain amount but must call a special meeting otherwise, which would then require notice to all, a quorum, and a vote.

Then I'd have to wonder why they just don't say that instead of leaving people scratching their heads. Well, so, maybe you'd need to call your attorney to interpret and make sure you are in compliance. Those are working, income producing documents they've created for themselves!

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Why did I think there was a meeting required? Maybe because Section 7.9 mentions "meeting" three times?

7.9 Special Notice and Quorum Requirements. Notwithstanding anything to the contrary contained in either the Bylaws or the Articles, written notice of any meeting called for the purpose of levying a Special Assessment, or for the purpose of obtaining a membership vote in connection with an increase in the Regular Assessment, shall be sent to all Members of the Association and to any person in possession of a Building Lot in the applicable Tract, not less than fifteen (15) days not more than (30) days before such meeting. At the first such meeting called, the presence of Members or of proxies entitled to cast sixty percent (60%) of the total votes of the Association shall constitute a quorum. (It then continues and explains what needs to happen if a quorum is not reached).
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
There is a way to avoid having a special meeting. We had to do it so we could go door to door to get votes. If your lawyer drafts a document giving up one's right to go to a special meeting, then that special meeting requirement can be overridden. The special meeting is looked at more of a "right" to attend as a general members of the HOA and is NOT one of board/general members. It's something that effects the HOA as a whole of which the BOD does not represent. (so to speak).

Basically, allowing someone to give up their right to take their vote at a special meeting allows the HOA to gather votes on an individual nature. Which could even be at a board meeting. We used to bring our documents when changing the CC&R's to the meetings to gather signatures from attendees. That way we knew they had to be owners if they were attending and could keep it in the records.

Former HOA President
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I think part of the confusion might be that 7.9 does not give names to the types of meetings that might be involved. A special meeting of the board for the purpose of levying a Special Assessment. A special meeting of the members (homeowners), though, would be the meeting at which members would vote on a dues increase.

If a dues increase is below the threshold required by your documents in state, the increase presumably could be discussed & voted on solely by the board at its regular meeting. Is Idaho an open meeting state, Joseph? Or can directors meet behind closed doors whenever they wish?

Others have pointed out that these meetings might be required if dues are increased by more than xx%. The question is, it seems to me, what is the % in your case, Joseph? If not in your bylaws, CC&Rs (or perhaps articles), there might a state law or code about this.

If anyone wants to, please translate Melissa's remarks. Is she talking about proxies?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Carol

I was wondering the same thing about Melissa's remarks. It has to be a proxy, because there is no way a document from a lawyer WITHOUT membership approval will ever trump what the CCRs state, unless the CCRs allow for such a document from an attorney.

Other than that, I have no clue.
JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Carol and everyone else that is taking time to help me understand all this. Let me share a link so if anyone wants to see the complete CC&R's for my Association here it is:https://www.google.com/#q=apple+creek+caldwell+idaho+ccr's. It makes it a lot easier for anyone trying to make sense to actually look at the complete document.

I have lived in this sub-divison of new homes for 7 years. About one year ago D.R.Horton sold the property in Corey Barton an Idaho builder. The new owner Corey Barton kept the same CC&R's.
If the board has regular meetings I would not know because the homeowners are never informed of such meetings. The only interaction we have with the Board is indirectly. The developer uses a Management Company to make any announcements which are few and far between. Case in point, the management company is the one who informed us of the Regular Assessment increase. We have had only on meeting per year and that is with the management company to go over the annual budget. The management company pretty much does not discuss anything else with us other than budget and delinquent homeowners and of course talk about homeowners violating the CC&R's. That is it. We don't access to Corey Barton. The management company is our only contact and they only answer questions that pertain to their management duties. I sent emails to the management company telling them that I thought the increase was not legal as per 7.9. The office manager tells me that my interpretation is not her interpretation and that the Regular Assessment is legal and she is using Section 7.2.1 as her justification. If one looks at that section it is only describing how the Regular Assessment is computed. There is never a legal opinion given but just an Office Manager at a Management Company.

There are limitation on dues increases as it pertains to Special Assessments. No Special Assessment shall be levied which exceeds twenty percent of the budgeted gross expenses of such association for that fiscal year, without the vote or written assent of the Owners representing majority of the votes of the Members of such Association. This is under Section: 7.3.

Again, I want to thank you all for your help. It looks like if I choose to continue this an attorney will be required.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Joseph,

Your CC&Rs are very clear on how the rate of assessments are to be determined. Basically it's the amount of expenses divided by the number of lots (see 7.2 of your CC&Rs). Therefore, if expenses go up, assessments go up.

Special Assessments (7.3) of up to 20% of the regular assessments may be assessed by the Board. The special assessments may be used if the Board messed up the calculations at the beginning of the year when setting the amount of the regular assessments or if there is an unexpected expense. Again, a special assessment is limited to 20% of the regular assessment without membership approval.

Reading 7.9 in context with the rest of the CC&Rs, that section is simply establishing the notice and quorum requirement for any meeting that is called to impose a special assessment in excess of 20 percent.

I also suspect that other documents, the Bylaws perhaps, may have further procedures and/or limitations about assessments. Since the website you referred us to does not have a copy of the Bylaws (yet the CC&Rs mention the Bylaws), you likely also don't have access to a copy unless you request it through the management company. I would suggest that you make such a request. It is possible that the Bylaws will shed more light on understanding that section.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I only skimmed your CC&Rs, Joseph, so easily may have missed any text about requirements for increasing assessments. You do have bylaws so read them and read your Articles of Incorporation.

Read ID corporation codes. In them or in your bylaws there should be statements about how often the board of directors is required to meet (e.g., four times a year, or?). The bylaws and state laws also might say whether the board meetings can be attended by homeowners.

Board meetings are required to be open in CA, AZ, VA & many other states. And also in many states, owners must be notified about the time, place etc. of any open meeting of the board. If the next year's budget is simply a matter for a regular meeting of the board, you very well may be able to attend. You also may very well be able to get copies of the minutes for these meetings of the board. But this all depends on your bylaws or state laws.

My sense is that you need to know more before you seriously consider an attorney.

By the way what were your dues and what will they be with the increase?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/19/2014 3:31 PM

Your CC&Rs are very clear on how the rate of assessments are to be determined. Basically it's the amount of expenses divided by the number of lots (see 7.2 of your CC&Rs). Therefore, if expenses go up, assessments go up.

Let me clarify this a little more with an example.

Say you have 10 lots/units.

In year 1, expenses are calculated at $1,000 so assessments will be $100 per lot (1,000 divided by 10)
In year 2, expenses are calculated at $5,000 so assessments will be $500 per lot (5,000 divided by 10)
In year 3, expenses are calculated at $900 so assessments will be $90 per lot (900 divided by 10)

JeffT2 (Iowa)
Posts: 880
Posted:
Here is how I read 7.9. There is no requirement in 7.9 for a meeting. Whenever a meeting is required by some other provision (the only one I see so far is for special assessments), 7.9 gives the notice requirement and the quorum requirement, hence the opening statement "Special Notice and Quorum Requirements.". A requirement for a meeting does not appear in the opening statement or anywhere else in 7.9. It mentions "meeting" only as a qualifier for the type of notice and quorum, not as a requirement for the meeting.

As others have pointed out, a meeting for every increase in regular assessments does not make sense.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Attached is a link to an association CCRs in Idaho. Page 38 of the documents outlines the procedures for increases in annual assessments and special assessments.

http://www.legendsofboise.com/docs/LegendsCovenants.pdf

Any annual assessment over 10% of the previous years assessment must be approved by the membership.

ANY special assessment MUST be approved by 2/3 of the voting membership. Notice must be sent and quorum starts at 50% and can be reduced down to 25%, BUT to pass an special assessment still requires 2/3.
SG3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 63
Posted:
" a meeting for every increase in regular assessments does not make sense."

It could make good sense to keep a dialogue on expenses and the property going. Either a BOD educating members on expenses or members educating board members that money needs to be spent and saved to keep the property up. Keeping things on track and people on the same page as to where the money goes and just how much is really needed. Having a handful of laypeople in charge with little to no accountability is not a good business model. With a larger broader group involved, everyone takes ownership and there is more likelihood to have some involved who have more experience or common sense to bring to the table.

SG3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 63
Posted:
" a meeting for every increase in regular assessments does not make sense."

It could make good sense to keep a dialogue on expenses and the property going. Either a BOD educating members on expenses or members educating board members that money needs to be spent and saved to keep the property up. Keeping things on track and people on the same page as to where the money goes and just how much is really needed. Having a handful of laypeople in charge with little to no accountability is not a good business model. With a larger broader group involved, everyone takes ownership and there is more likelihood to have some involved who have more experience or common sense to bring to the table.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Joseph,

I skimmed through the declaration you linked to and found that in Section 4 (a) and 4 (b) the board may increase your annual assessment by up to 10% over the prior year without seeking owner approval.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 04/20/2014 7:32 AM
Joseph,

I skimmed through the declaration you linked to and found that in Section 4 (a) and 4 (b) the board may increase your annual assessment by up to 10% over the prior year without seeking owner approval.


That was in Article IX.

This is a reasonable amount as it allows the board to act without being second-guessed by the owners while not allowing the board unlimited authority to assess.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Larry,

Are you sure you got the right set of CC&Rs? I ask because I don't see a section 4(a) or (b). Section 4 deals with general and specific restrictions.

Here is the set I reviewed: http://gomgm.com/formShow.asp?id=296

That link came from the link Joseph provided https://www.google.com/#q=apple+creek+caldwell+idaho+ccr's (a google search) and taking the first link to the management company. In the document I reviewed, 7.9 matched what was cited and 7.2 seems to agree with the response Joe's management company gave him for the justification for the increase.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/20/2014 7:57 AM
Larry,

Are you sure you got the right set of CC&Rs?

Uh, now that you ask I may not have the right ones. Someone else posted a generic set of Idaho CC&R's and I mistakenly thought it was the document for Joseph's association.

Disregard my previous responses.

JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Richard,
The CC&R's for the property you show is not the same as the CC&R's for my property. My sub-division does not have a percentage restriction for the Regular Assessment. The only restriction would be that the increase can only cover certain expenses for the Association. The only percentage qualifer is for Special Assessments, which is 20 percent annually.
JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Larry,
I don't know what CC&R's you are reading but it is not for Applecreek in Idaho. Read my post again and see the link.
JosephM11 (Idaho)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Carol,
Thank you for your reply. I am truly surprised I have received such a response to my inquiry. I really do appreciate the time that everyone is taking to assist me. This is truly a great site since one can only imagine how much can be done under HOA management that each owner should be alert and aware.
I read the bylaws and the Board of Directors meetings are open meetings. The problem being, there has not been any meetings to date. The only meetings that have been conducted have been the annual meeting with the management company speaking to the income and expense statement.
I agree with you about proceeding carefully before considering an attorney.
The dues for the first 7 years were $170 annually. This year they were increased to $190.00. So the issue of having a meeting for an increase in Regular Assessments was not an issue.
Through all of this my only confusion is the wording of 7.9 and how it should be interpreted. I am not an attorney but I have never seen such wording that is vague and not direct. All the wording of 7.9 does is create its own problem.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Joseph, how does the Board raise dues if it has no meetings?? Ever? If ID is an open meeting state like you say, then state law says there must be meetings at which Boards make decisions such as raising dues.

the annual meeting you're referring to is a meeting of the members, i.e, the lot owners. It is not a board meeting.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Carol,

I believe that Joseph's Association is still under Declarant control.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Right, I did notice that, Tim, but when our declarant was in control--only for a year or so--there was still a board comprised of directors of his development company. Our bylaws only require 4 meetings per year, but they did meet, kept minutes, etc. They did establish a raise in dues. Not nearly enough, mind you, so that low dues could (and did) attract more buyers.

My understanding is that type of board composition is not unusual and is why so many bylaws do not specify that board members must be members of the association.
DonnaR5
Posts: 162
Posted:
Even allowing for lower living expenses in Idaho, your dues seem reasonable. And a $20 annual raise after 7 years, also reasonable. Your board of directors will find, after the developer is out of the picture, that you will need to increase dues regularly. Trash collection, lawn care, electricity, all the Association's costs will go up annually. If you don't increase your dues, your reserves will dwindle and you will not be able to maintain the property.

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