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AustinT (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Hi all, new to the forum here and I appreciate your time and input! Our HOA is very new with small common areas and no amenities. The neighborhood is all new construction with the houses being occupied completely as of late 2012. There are 31 homes or so in the neighborhood (in suburban Dallas). The problem we face is that with so few homes, we are currently charged $595 per year in dues. After having taken over the HOA duties from the developer pretty recently, we are finding that $595 simply isn't enough. That is about $18,500 in revenue each year, but our expenses are running closer to $20K. The big expenses are a $900 per month landscape contract which handles the common areas and a $300 per month fee from our management company - and utility bills get high during the Summer. You might think that with so few homes we could manage ourselves, but due collection, violation notices and yearly tax filings are just not something we want to take "in-house."

Does anybody have any experience with small communities and the economies of scale that are lost? Thank you very much!
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
you must either:

raise the dues to 677 per month

OR

reduce your expenses to 18,554 per year

OR

borrow the difference until the banks say 'no more' then pay up AND pay the interest

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE, DON'T

ps. do y'all have retention ponds? lakes? storm water drains?

if so, check out what THEY will cost y'all 'down the road'

best of luck
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
You need to vote yourself an increase in dues or figure out a way to cut expenses. You COULD go out and ask for bids for landscaping and management, but then you would have to ask for bids and evaluate bids.

You are in charge (collectively).
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Welcome to HOATalk, Austin.

It does look like you'll need to raise dues. Your current management fee doesn't sound out of line, but what about your landscaping? Hard to know if $900 per month is too much because we don't know what's involved every month at you HOA.

Are you putting anything aside each month or year into a reserves account? This is to pay to replace things that will wear out some day, e.g., fences, sprinkler systems, roads if you're responsible for them.

Sometimes, developers keep dues artificially low to attract buyers.
SG3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Yes, you say $ 20K in expenses. Plan ahead and make sure you are saving for the future. Breaking even is not a sound goal. If this is a wealthy neighborhood, I guess you could operate by special assessments when needed.

Succinct, from another thread:

the hoa owns things

these things have an expected 'life' and will need replacement

all the owned stuff needs to be funded as it is 'used up'

eg:

start with a new roof which cost 50,000

expected service life may = 20 years

1/20 of 50,000 needs to be saved every year

repeat for EVERY item owned by hoa

it is actually CRYSTAL CLEAR

y'all own stuff - y'all need to pay for it

BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 04/16/2014 1:06 PM
you must either:

raise the dues to 677 per month

OR

reduce your expenses to 18,554 per year

OR

borrow the difference until the banks say 'no more' then pay up AND pay the interest

IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE, DON'T

ps. do y'all have retention ponds? lakes? storm water drains?

if so, check out what THEY will cost y'all 'down the road'

best of luck

John,
Although it looks like the dues need to be raised to cover expenses and for reserves, I don't believe raising them to $677 per month is necessary. That's $20,987 per month or $251,844 per year.

Don't be so hasty with your IF YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO LIVE THERE, DON'T. That's not being helpful at all. It's just being rude.

It's a pretty simple concept, raise the dues and reduce your expenses.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
sorry for the typo: meant per year
AustinT (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you all very much for the input. I agree we're running our budget a little bit like the Federal Government at this point, and it probably is as simple as either raising revenue or cutting expenses. The ship has sailed for awhile on reducing our landscaping expenses because we just entered into a new contract (I was outvoted). No home owner likes hearing the news that we need to raise dues, but the above poster was right: we own things and those things need eventual maintenance and replacement. At this point we aren't putting anything aside, and that's a recipe for an expensive disaster later down the line.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AustinT on 04/16/2014 10:38 AM
You might think that with so few homes we could manage ourselves, but due collection, violation notices and yearly tax filings are just not something we want to take "in-house."

You may want to look at hiring an accountant or bookkeeper to deal with collecting finances, etc. Some banks/companies will also provide just that service.

As others have said, if there is nobody who wants to take on those duties, then the membership needs to be willing to pay more in assessments to have someone do the job for them. Mind you, the membership still needs to take an active part and verify what the person you pay to do the job actually does the job. Otherwise the membership will have created an opportunity for any individual willing to take advantage of the issue.

JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
Even though you entered a contract with the landscape company, depending upon the contract, you still might be able to save.

For example, ask for a breakdown of services and be willing to take a critical look at your landscaping. What is the major time-consuming part of the landscaping job?

With the rising cost of water and concerns about drought, is your landscape waterwise?

In most cases, your major expense will be the proper care and maintenance of the lawn. If your landscaping contract doesn't include things like yearly re-sodding or re-seeding, aeration, fertilizing and weeding, then you might also want to get a detailed list of what your contract does include.

Other things that might not be waterwise and thus costly during the summer months are non-native trees or trees that were not meant to be in your weather zone. I also commonly see the usage of annuals in landscaping at institutions and that means a cost of replacement of materials each year as opposed to using perennials.

Depending upon your landscaping contract, you might be able to change things when some services become unnecessary (e.g. the removal of lawn areas means the cost of mowing is no longer necessary).

The removal and replacement of lawns can be a controversial subject, but remember that lawns like the sport golfing came from the United Kingdom (golf came from Scotland) and the climate there is vastly different from the West or Southwest.

When we lived in a HOA, the board did let the lawn die during a drought (Mexican salvia and some other drought tolerant plants were installed at no cost to the HOA and were well-established), however, once the drought was over and restrictions lifted the new board re-installed the lawn and then went after only the treasurer (my husband) to reimburse the HOA for the damage. The decision had been unanimous and with the original restrictions made by the city (watering only twice a week during the summer), was a moot point.

Of course, the board lost that lawsuit and two others in less than a year against us. After we left, they did install a lawn and you might have heard that California is having a record drought. Currently there is legislature being discussed at the state level which would protect HOA members from fines for letting their lawns die and to insure that drought tolerant plants are not banned from HOA boards.

Our HOA community was very small (only 10 units).

DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
How on Earth are you spending over $20k per year with small common areas and no amenities?

What does your budget look like and what's on it?

You say houses, so I assume exterior landscaping on each house is the owners responsibility.

What are you getting for the $900 per month landscaping?

And you're paying almost 20% of your budget for a management company? We don't use a mgmt company in my HOA, but that seems like a huge percentage.

Mowing/maintaining common areas
Liability insurance for common areas
Electric bill (if you have lighting)
Mgmt company fees

I can't imagine many more line items than that

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Dave,

I Believe that Austin's Association is using a management company or other contractor. I base this on the comment he posted "You might think that with so few homes we could manage ourselves, but due collection, violation notices and yearly tax filings are just not something we want to take "in-house."

Therefore, even though Landscaping is cited as the highest expense, I suspect that it's actually the management company, which Austin has implied they don't want to get rid of as they don't want to do the work of collections and enforcement themselves.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DaveD3 on 04/21/2014 4:38 AM

Mowing/maintaining common areas
Liability insurance for common areas
Electric bill (if you have lighting)
Mgmt company fees

I can't imagine many more line items than that

Obligation to the Reserves would also be an expense.

Typically, most developments for families have some sort of playground (which should be covered by Reserves).
DaveD3 (Michigan)
Posts: 796
Posted:
Right Tim, I forgot to add reserves, but with "no amenities" it should be negligible.

I understand not wanting to deal with the hassle of administration, but ~20% of revenue for a mgmt company seems like a lot.

GreggT (Florida)
Posts: 77
Posted:
Either I am missing something or most of you are. The HOA fees are $595.00 A YEAR, not A MONTH!!!! The $18,500.00 revenue is yearly from all the 31 homes!!!
AustinT (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
So our landscaping fees ($900 per month) cover the mowing of common areas and the maintenance of our trees, shrubs and flower beds. There is (I believe) two modest change outs of color each year. In my opinion we aren't getting the value for the money with our landscapers. Then our Management company charges us $300 per month to basically handle due collection, paying our bills and filing our taxes. Then of course we have utility bills which are $200-300 a month when the weather gets warmer. These are all single-family homes, so each home owner's yard is their own responsibility.

Dave, I'm curious, how has you experience been self managing? How has managing the community, filing taxes, etc. gone?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Austin

What common property/amenities do you have?

Even if you could cut back on landscaping and management fees the best you would have might be a balanced budget with nothing going toward reserves. Even if no large common areas nor amenities there still should be something in reserve.

Overall I think you will probably need a dues increase even if expenses are cut some.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Say, Austin, now that others have mentioned it, do note that my first posts suggests you need to contribute to reserves. but I'm not sure what components should be on your reserve schedule. Is your HOA responsible for street lights? ending? Curbs/sidewalks? Sprinler system?

I'm also wondering why your utility bills go up in the summer? Increased water usage? Or?
AustinT (Texas)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Carol, you are very correct! We do need to be contributing to reserves. We have a stone retaining wall behind the houses on one side of the block for which we are responsible. God willing we're on a long time horizon for that one, but you never know! Our utility bills go up in the summer because Dallas summers always necessitate increased water usage to keep things healthy.
JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Question everything set up by the builder, not because they are a bad person necessarily, but because it's your fiduciary responsibility to do so. Question everything that was put into place by the builder and the management co. That's a huge monthly landscaping bill. Crazy that the board voted to sign that contract, is there a way to void it or overturn the vote? Did anyone get other bids or did they just want to keep the status quo? If that's their attitude and you can prove differently then gather support and vote them off.

Assuming you've already sent out a budget and financial statement for them to see for themselves, surely they can the writing on the wall, and if you try to cut down that landscape bill, it would show good faith into increasing the assessments in the near future.

We are trying the self management route now and it's pretty darn easy at this point, but I don't expect that to be the case 100% of the time! Good luck!

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