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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
As some know in California, associations were required to have election rules in place since 2006. The biggest issue involved with adopting elections rules is it would allow an association the opportunity to appoint a management company or one of their representatives as an inspector of election.

In 2006 and 2007 this association voted to send the new election rules to the members for their comment during a 30 day comment period (required by Corporation Code). I have seen the letters that were addressed to each of the homeowners on both occasions. I have found the minutes that approved the rules being sent out, but can't find anything showing the Board voted to formally adopted the rules, once the 30 day period passed.

The association has conducted six elections since 2006 and amended their Bylaws using the new election rules. During that period of time, two management companies along with the association's legal counsel acted as the inspector of elections. Nothing was ever challenged until 2012. In 2012, a Board cancelled an election because, after extensive research, they could find no Board that formally adopted those election rules. If there were no formally adopted rules, then the management company, nor the attorney, could legally be appointed to serve as inspector of elections, as they are considered an independent third party under contract to the association.

The question I would pose is while nothing can be done about the director elections, would the vote to amend the Bylaws be valid? Or would a staue of limitation somewhere kick in.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Strictly & legally valid, maybe not. Why not check with the HOA attorney.

But, at the practical level, and we know how much it costs to send our double-envelope secret ballots, etc., in CA, if the HOA members had a quorum and the revised bylaws passed, it seems to me reasonable to keep them as is. Some after all, already have been used, I'm guessing. The intent of a majority was to amend your bylaws. It seems unreasonable to try to nullify that sincere, good-faith effort to restate your bylaws. (And you know, Richard, that I'm not an attorney!)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

If the intent was followed then maybe the letter of the law need not be. If nobody was "tricked/deceived" then the he!! with the procedure not being followed properly.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
John and Carol,

I would agree on the issue with the Bylaws, because of the good faith that went into the process, they should remain in effect.

I would question the validity of suspending election rules, when in fact, all owners received the document, had 30 days to review and comment, and after 30 days, there were no comments, no disagreements.

Funny thing is the same attorney who wrote the rules in 2006-2007, was present at all of the elections, was at the meeting to amend the Bylaws, was the same attorney who in 2012 suspended them.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
"Funny," indeed! I haven't had time to check, Richard, but our neither our PM nor any MC staff act as inspectors of election. We've had election rules since late '06. Our HOA members do. Are you sure it's OK to have the HOA MC staff be inspectors of election?

I'm curious to know if you incorporated your election rules into your bylaws when you restated them.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Carol,

This is the rule that allows a PM or MC staff to act as an inspector of elections.

Civil Code ยง5110. Inspector of Elections.
[Old: Civ. Code ยง1363.03(c)]

(a) The association shall select an independent third party or parties as an inspector of elections. The number of inspectors of elections shall be one or three.

(b) For the purposes of this section, an independent third party includes, but is not limited to, a volunteer poll worker with the county registrar of voters, a licensee of the California Board of Accountancy, or a notary public. An independent third party may be a member, but may not be a director or a candidate for director or be related to a director or to a candidate for director. An independent third party may not be a person, business entity, or subdivision of a business entity who is currently employed or under contract to the association for any compensable services unless expressly authorized by rules of the association adopted pursuant to paragraph (5) of subdivision (a) of Section 5105.

I rewrote the election rules a couple of months ago and they were approved in February. I actually incorporated the specific areas of the elections from the Bylaws into the election rules.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Yes, now I remember, Richard, but I & our MC interpreted them differently than you where it says: "An independent third party may not be a person, business entity, or subdivision of a business entity who is currently employed or under contract to the association," unless authorized by the HOA's election rules (I guess). Maybe I'm missing something.

So, our PM & Asst. PM assist with set up, etc., but don't open or tabulate ballots.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Especially what it is saying, and every attorney that I have seen with their own election rules interpret the same way, that IF and ONLY If the association has their OWN set of elections and it specifically spells out that the MC can act as an inspector, then it can be allowed.

If there are any politics within the community, I would always suggest utilizing a Notary or a firm specializing in HOA Elections.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
OK, Richard, I see. And our rules don't say the MC can act in that capacity so it doesn't.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 04/14/2014 3:58 PM

Funny thing is the same attorney who wrote the rules in 2006-2007, was present at all of the elections, was at the meeting to amend the Bylaws, was the same attorney who in 2012 suspended them.

Where does an attorney derive the authority to suspend an election? He can advise but it is the board who must make the final decision.

From what I understand, the same board members who were elected under the election rules now claim the rules are invalid but none of them surrendered their position, effectively making themselves permanent directors.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Larry

The unfortunate part is board's look at an attorney as almighty and don't question their opinion or advise. As one former board member said, "it's what we pay them for'. We have since terminated the law firm's services. The actual reason the rules were suspended was to keep individuals from getting elected to the board. In going through the law firm's invoices for writing the election rules, we ending up paying $3000.00 for a document that any other firm would have charged $350.00 for.

I was really surprised the attorney didn't invalidate the Bylaw vote, as it would have kept the old board in place. If it was taken to small claims, it would have resulted in fines of $3500, $500 fine times seven instances.
KarenF5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
If this needs to be separated off to its own topic, please do so...I just wasn't sure since it is about Election Rules, but not as pertains to the OP.

A major blow to our "coup" today! The lawyer for the HOA ruled that our terms are 2 years, even though my attorney has interpreted them to be 1 year. How is it that 2 opinions come from one set of words???? Anyway, the whole reason I went to him and pushed for this opinion is because the Pres has been in place, voting herself in by proxy every time, for 10 years now! She makes up rules as she goes along to get her way, whether it's what the By-Laws CCRs say or not! So, I was a member of the Board but resigned when she refused to hand over the accounts and books to the elected Treasurer. Then a couple of months later a neighbor called begging me to run against her in this year's election. I agreed. I pushed the lawyer to opine on the length of terms because the Treasurer had chosen to make his own decisions as well so I felt he didn't need to stay in office either! So, now we have the opinion that yes, he will stay in office and Pres and Sec are up for election. All is well and good but now the election is being forced to run as it should have all these years but hasn't. We have provisions for Directors some of whom will be Officers but the Pres has been running it as just Officers and no Directors. So, this election has 2 openings and the Board will decide who does what at it's first meeting after the election. If this woman even so much as gets one vote,because no one else has stepped up at this point, she is back in and between the 2 of them she will be voted for Pres again thereby completely negating the intention of me running and putting me right back where I was! I refuse to be part of a dishonest "administration" (for lack of a better word!) and have no intention of staying in the race if that is the case. I'm at a real loss of what to do! The lady that begged me to run refuses to be part of the Board (but is okay with pushing ME to be!). I haven't made attempts to talk anyone into it but will talk to a few people to see...but WHAT A MESS!! I realize that by going to the lawyer to clarify the terms (thinking I already knew the answer!) is what has caused this and I have no one to blame but me, but I had a legal opinion backing me up!

Does anyone have some good advice for me? Is there a simple solution here that I don't see?

Thanks in advance!
Karen
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I really cannot read all of this right now, but it spooks to me that you should start a new subject because part of your issue has to do with TN rules, and this thread mainly is a bourn
CA election rules.

But do not limit your subject to TN--from skimming your notes, there are general themes here that could app to all HOAs.
KarenF5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Okay...will do! Thanks Carol!
KarenF5 (Tennessee)
Posts: 12
Posted:
Okay...so I moved my topic above here - http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/172294/view/topic/Default.aspx But I have no idea how to delete this post!

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