💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Thank you for having a place to post questions like this forum. In keeping with the guidelines, I will keep my request as generic as possible by keeping names and addresses anonymous.

I live in a highrise condominium in Chicago where we have common element pool, and 23 common element cabanas surrounding our pool. The cabanas, are a small room where you can have a refrigerator, store pool toys, and dishes, etc. Owners, who are allowed to rent the cabanas, may also have a grill at their cabana.

The problem is, that current cabana leasers are given automatic renewal each year to rent their cabana. There is a waiting list in excess of 20+ years with names of owners who would like to rent a cabana consisting of more than 40 owners (we have 465 units in our building).

The Association's attorney addressed a public complaint by writing to the board:

"The Board can consider a different method of assigning the cabanas to allow all unit owners an opportunity to the use of a cabana. Arguably, allowing the same owners exclusive use of the cabanas year after year creates two classes of owners which is prohibited under the Illinois Condominium Property Act. On the other hand, we understand the rationale that regular cabana users should be given the right to apply first for a cabana assignment. Again, the Board creates the Rules, and the Board can revise the Rules. The decision is one of exercising proper business judgment regarding cabana assignments."

Surprisingly, the Board read the letter at a meeting but omitted this paragraph. They also asked that this letter not be circulated to other unit owners, but provided it when I made a formal request in writing.

Thus, there is one class of owners - cabana leasers, created by this leasing policy.

And, a second class of owners on a wait list. With one cabana becoming available every 10 years, the 40th person can expect to wait 400 years before being allowed access to this common element.

In addition to two classes of owners, cabana leasers are violating House Rules by a) profiting from their cabana by subleasing to other owners who can then sidestep the wait list, and b) affixing permanent fixtures to a common element (remodeling interiors with new cabinets, etc.), which is strictly prohibited in the House Rules and the Illinois Condominium Property Act.

We have tried to again challenge this unfair and illegal policy in 2013 but the board has shut us down at every corner. We even tried to run for open positions on the board, and the election was contentious to say the least. Owners in possession of a cabana pulled out all of the stops to run smear campaigns and send out letters to all owners discrediting our candidacies.

We are looking for balanced next steps, and do not have the money, nor do we want to take our own Association to court, but there must be options. What recommendations do you have? We would consider going to the media, and also are seriously considering filing a complain with a website called www.peopleclaim.com. But I feel there may be more strategic options available.

Thank you for your assistance!

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
BR3,

Welcome to the forum. First remember that attorney advice is just that, advice. The Board is not required to follow it.

As for what may be done, use the letter to gather support and recall the Board.
Or
use the letter to gather support and simply not reelect them.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
I second that, Recall 'em!

Here's a link to a 3yo article discussing the procedure.

"What to do with a Runaway Board"

http://www.ksnlaw.com/knowledge-center/articles/running-the-perfect-meeting.html

Hopefully it's still reflective of current IL law.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
I'm with Peter & Tim. Your attorney has given the board the green light to change the situation. So . . . change the Board. Try again.

There only are 23 cabana hoarders and 40 on a wait list. Who knows how many more of your 465 unit owners might want to use these cabanas if there wasn't such a discouraging wait list.

Do any directors lease cabanas? If so, they shouldn't vote on anything related to the cabanas as they have a conflict of interest.

I find it odd that the attorney wrote, "...we understand the rationale that regular cabana users should be given the right to apply first for a cabana assignment." I sure don't understand this rationale that excludes a huge portion of your HOA from using a common element!!

Indeed, our own high rise governing documents do not allow the Board to give exclusive use privileges of any common element to any owner. (Exceptions are very short term resident rental of community lounges and a max of 72 hrs. Visitor Parking spaces.) But apparently yours do, BR3, and the attorney can cite the passage that permits exclusive use in exchange for rent.

Meantime, if you have open meetings of the Board every month, you and those who agree with you should attend and a raise a civilized fuss every time.

By the way, the reason my husband & I decided to retire to an urban high rise condo is because of a year we spent in one-222 units-- on N. Lakeshore Dr. Wonderful experience in the Lakeview neighborhood.
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
This is really good advice.

Would it interest you to know that we submitted a petition last September, with 150+ signatures (at least 20% unit owner interest), calling for:

a) immediate suspension of the current leasing cabana policy;
b) an immediate community meeting (really, this should state a special meeting) to develop an inclusive cabana rental policy;
c) Detailed and accurate records of all receipts and expenditures of the common elements specifically paid for cabana upkeep and maintenance.

Can we leverage this letter to call a special meeting related to the unfairness of the cabana policy, and put the policy to a vote? Or do we have to start from scratch?

Any other guidelines that you can provide around special meetings would be helpful.

Unfortunately, removing the board members would be an uphill battle. We have been branded 'team whipper snapper' and the old guard seems willing to do whatever it can to remain in power, and has a lot of support from our older residents.

Many thanks!
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
BR3,

I will not fish for you but show you how to fish. (similar to a bible reference I think)

You are going to have to organize and educate yourselves so you can challenge anything you feel is inappropriate (illegal) with regard to BOD conduct and actions.

Either you and/or others who agree with you should do Google type research for laws, cases, and other similar information regarding the IL HOA/Condo laws.
These might also include "IL Corporations not for profit" (or similar) laws as well.

Spend time reading and meeting with them (your condo members) to collectively understand your rights and limits.

Take your time and be diligent.

Be prepared with DOCUMENTATION to show their (alleged) inappropriate behaviors and/or laws they may be violating.

Otherwise collect monies from other members to get your own 'war chest' for legal advice/opinions and if necessary representation.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
BR3,

Typically, how common elements are utilized are at the discretion of the Board.

The only way, unless your governing documents or State statutes provide another, to counter what a Board has done is by amending the governing documents or find others who are like minded, willing to serve and recall the Board.

It's always an uphill battle to remove members of the Board. You have to decide if the issue is worth the Battle.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/24/2014 12:05 PM
It's always an uphill battle to remove members of the Board.

Unless, that is, you have trouble finding enough people willing to serve on the board.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
How many directors' slots on your HOA's board, BR3? what size mgmt. team is at your HOA? Can they help in any way?

The article that Peter ciets looks like a fine resource in your state. It lays out pretty well what you and your fellow travelers can do. Your own bylaws very well may state he info about holding a special meeting of the members (not to be confused with a special meeting of the Board).

As Tim points out, it's difficult getting rid of a lousy board. And I agree with you that they need to be dumped! But it can be done. In our case, it took a year to get a majority of decent folk elected to our board, but we did not need to do a recall election. I know that Tim went through something similar.

What we did is similar to Peter's advice: We formed a coalition of 12-15, very cleverly called The Small Group. We studied our CC&Rs, bylaws and relevant state law. In about six months we fielded three candidates for the three openings on the Board of 7, sent a positive campaign letter to all owners, and won. A year later additional members of our group, which had grown a lot by then, won a majority on the Board.

Meantime, I see in the article Peter cited that your board must have open meetings. Attend--as many as you can muster.

BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Thank you for the great feedback, Carol, Tim and Peter.

We have a board of 5, and ran 3 very strong candidates from our group this past December (myself included). We received nearly 30% of the votes each, but the incumbents beat us with 40%. Although we are not disgruntled, and plan to run again, we noted many problems with the election and unless a correction is made now, the next election, and so on, will have issues.

Problems noted:

1. No eligible voters list was provided to the Auditor to verify against the ballots that were cast.Owners were not registered, by way of registration card and signature. A post election review revealed that ballots were cast by non owners, bank personnel, building management personnel (by way of proxy for the incumbents, which seemed particularly odd and a conflict of interest), and deceased owners. The assistant building manager was allegedly heard saying "thank you for getting the word out" after the December election.

2. The Auditor Mr. misrepresented himself by initialing on his “Ballot Tabulation Procedures” checklist that he checked signatures in compliance with the Illinois Condominium Property Act. During the tabulation of votes, the Auditor rejected only duplicate ballots and entered all others without question.

3. The management office was in possession of a second ballot box, which was locked in the management office, alongside the official ballot box (claiming the auditor sent two by mistake, but why not just reject the box and have it sent back immediately?). At the annual election, the Auditor only verified the contents of one ballot box, suggesting that ballots may not have been counted because the second ballot box was not inspected publicly at the election.

As I said, this election was a contentious one, and proper election protocol is as much of a concern as the unfair cabana policy. The incumbents did whatever possible, including bringing in management and allegedly telling the staff that if elected we would replace the management company and everyone would lose their job.

Since the election, we have been proactive and joined the budget committee. This includes going regularly to monthly meetings (as much as I can stomach it). We are going to run next December when the next two terms are up.

I've read a number of helpful threads on this forum, and all point to trying to resolve problems as proactively as possible, but in many ways the current board shows strong signs of not being willing to work with us. We will keep at it...
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
BR,

While you are gathering support, I urge you to become familiar with your governing documents and applicable State laws (including corporate laws). Some of the problems you identified may only be perceived problems vs. actual problems.

For example: Being deceased will not invalidate a proxy. Therefore, it is possible, if a proxy was assigned prior to their death, for a deceased member to effectively cast a ballot.
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Agreed. I'm admittedly a novice and the governing documents sometimes leave me very confused.

The most egregious part of the election was not having an updated, authorized voter list. The person voting for the deceased owner should have been able to provide verification that they held a power of attorney allowing them to vote. Without this list, all votes were accepted without question.

I tried calling around our state to see there was an agency tasked with enforcing the IL condo property act, but was circled from office to office with no resolution.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
HOA and Condo laws are civil laws. Civil laws are settled between the affected parties (i.e. the membership). There is typically no government agency that does enforcement of civil laws.

Sure the State corporation commission may fine for not filing the annual report on time. The IRS will certainly go after the Association for failing to file taxes. The District Attorney will prosecute if criminal laws are broken (example embezzlement). However if the Association doesn't comply with the Bylaws or a civil law, it's up to the membership to hold the Board accountable. The easiest way would be to recall the board or not reelect those same individuals. The more expensive option is to go through the court system.

This is why it's imperative that the members remain active in the development and actually take an interest in how the Association is governed. If apathy sets in (and, unfortunately it does), it becomes that much more difficult to change things when issues are discovered. I applaud you for being active in your Association.

Some States do have an Ombudsman office to try and act as an intermediary before the issue is taken to the courts. IL has considered such an office but the bill appears to be sitting in the rules committee. see: IL HB 1293 for more information.

BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Wow, how did you find this? Are you the 'condo Jesus'?

Thank you, this type of information is so helpful!

I'm hoping I can continue to seek guidance as we begin to elevate our case... stay tuned.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Simple internet search.

I searched for IL HOA Ombudsman which led me to the Chicago Tribune Article.
The Article provided the number of the bill
Searched for IL HB-1293 which provided the wrong bill but did provide the Leg. website
Entered HB-1293 on State Legislature website which provided the bill's status

The more you get into researching your State Statutes and understanding them, the easier it is to know what keywords to search for.

BTW: Here are some links that may prove helpful:

IL General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986 Applicable if your Association is incorporated as a non-profit (most are).

IL Condominium Property Act Since your in a COA

Community Associations Network IL page good free reference pertaining to IL.

Subject: How to read a statute (law) thread on this forum that discusses understanding legalize.

Subject: Reserve Studies/Funds 101 thread on this forum that discusses Reserve Funds and Studies. Info you will need if you start serving on the Board. Info you should know if you are simply a member.

Hope this helps,

Tim
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/24/2014 4:29 PM
For example: Being deceased will not invalidate a proxy. Therefore, it is possible, if a proxy was assigned prior to their death, for a deceased member to effectively cast a ballot.

Are you sure about that?

For example, in Connecticut's Non-Stock Corporations Act, under the section regarding proxies, there is the provision:

"(e) The death or incapacity of the member appointing a proxy does not affect the right of the corporation to accept the proxy’s authority unless notice of the death or incapacity is received by the secretary or other officer or agent authorized to tabulate votes before the proxy exercises his authority under the appointment."

Thus, it would appear that if a member presented a death certificate or a published obituary or some other form of evidence of the individual's death prior to the vote being taken, it would invalidate the proxy.

This makes sense to me since a proxy is a form of power of attorney and the authority granted by virtue of a POA ceases upon the individual's death.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Bruce,

I would expect that the individual who would be presenting the death certificate would be executor of the estate or the individual(s) who inherited the property so that they, as the new owners, could exercise their right to vote. This, in my perspective, would be the same as if the individual showed up in person and informed the Secretary that the proxy is repealed.

IL statutes simply says that a proxy is good for 11 months unless the proxy form provides a different time frame and does not address the death of the member.

Some States, like VA, has the same language you specified.

However, your point is taken. Check the applicable State statutes.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
BR

As you have said, the Cabana's are controlled by BOD Rules & Regulations thus the question is how does one overturn/modify the BOD's Rules and Regulations?

Well the simple answer is you take over the BOD and change the R&R's.

You can go on and on about the last election but the bad news is your faction lost. The good news is there were quite a few that supported your faction.

One other avenue to explore is could the BOD R&R's be legally overturned. To do this I would suggest "The Whipper Snappers" pool some money together and hire an attorney to look into this possibility.

If you controlled, what would your R&R's be concerning Cabana allotment?
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Thank you John. We will continue to run for the board, as that is the easiest solution.

Until then, our next step is to file a complaint with www.peopleclaim.com, this website is a problem resolution site that states your claim to the offending party and attempts to find a resolution without the need for legal representation.

Here is what I've come up with so far for the association's attorney, each board member will receive a tailored copy too.

Complaint
You were made aware of a formal complaint made by a unit owner regarding the non-compliance with the law of the “Rules Governing Cabana Occupancy,” on July 26, 2011, and again on August 22, 2011. The policy unfairly allows 21 unit owners out of 465, or 3% of unit owners, to enjoy exclusive use of the cabanas year after year, while other unit owners requesting access are relegated to a wait list dating back to 1998. In a letter of response on August 19th and 31st of 2011, you acknowledged that the rental policy was out of compliance with Sec. 18, (2), Illinois Condominium Property Act, as well as Exhibit D, Section 1, of the (Property Address) Condominium Association by-laws by stating in both letters: “Arguably, allowing the same owners exclusive use of the cabanas year after year creates two classes of owners which is prohibited under the Illinois Condominium Property Act.” You were again made aware of the non-compliance of the rental policy in 2013 when you were presented with a petition containing 170 resident signatures requesting a Special Meeting of the Board to change the cabana policy to one that was equitable for the other 424, or 97% of residents.

Claim
The “Rules Governing Cabana Occupancy” should be voided, and replaced with a fair rental policy. In 2011, a lottery was recommended, where 21 unit owner names would be drawn randomly and systematically assigned to a cabana. The next round of 21 names would have the option to share the cabana either by choosing a cabana or, if no choice could be made, by being assigned to one. In addition, those who leased a cabana should have to wait 2 years before reentering the annual draw, unless there is available room to be placed back in the lottery. A system like this would keep our building compliant with the law, and protected from lawsuits against our Association.

Please let me know if you have any feedback - or ways to strengthen the argument.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
BR

Candidly I think you might be playing lawyer. My suggestion was to get real legal advice for "The Whipper Snappers".........LOL
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
This is amazingly helpful.

Thank you, I've been reviewing and learning so much!
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Hi Tim, I was referring to your post here. So crazy helpful and informative!

Thank you!
DarylF (Washington)
Posts: 157
Posted:
Law of supply and demand.

Clearly the demand for the cabanas greatly exceeds the supply. Thus, simple solution, raise the price of the cabanas until the demand better equals the supply.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DarylF on 03/25/2014 2:40 PM
Law of supply and demand.

Clearly the demand for the cabanas greatly exceeds the supply. Thus, simple solution, raise the price of the cabanas until the demand better equals the supply.


Slapping myself up alongside the head. I usually think along these lines. Whatever the market will bear. Thanks for reminding me.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BR3 on 03/25/2014 2:27 PM
Hi Tim, I was referring to your post here. So crazy helpful and informative! Thank you!

Thank you for the kind words. I'm just trying to repay the help I received (and still receive) from this site when I was dealing with my HOA issue.
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 03/25/2014 6:43 AM
Bruce,

I would expect that the individual who would be presenting the death certificate would be executor of the estate or the individual(s) who inherited the property so that they, as the new owners, could exercise their right to vote. This, in my perspective, would be the same as if the individual showed up in person and informed the Secretary that the proxy is repealed.

IL statutes simply says that a proxy is good for 11 months unless the proxy form provides a different time frame and does not address the death of the member.

Some States, like VA, has the same language you specified.

However, your point is taken. Check the applicable State statutes.


Just as a follow up, if proxies were submitted by unit owners (even if deceased), that would have been lest questionable. There were a significant number of ballots "signed for" a unit owner, but the name and signature of the person voting was not on the mortgage. We need to review our election protocol...
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Seems to me that something like this would be covered in the covenants. I'm sure that even Illinois teaches basic math: 23 cabanas divided by 465 units means that even if a unit could only rent the cabana for one year at a time it would take 20.22 years for every unit to get a turn. Imagine being at the bottom of the list, what a selling point.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 03/25/2014 8:49 PM
Seems to me that something like this would be covered in the covenants. I'm sure that even Illinois teaches basic math: 23 cabanas divided by 465 units means that even if a unit could only rent the cabana for one year at a time it would take 20.22 years for every unit to get a turn. Imagine being at the bottom of the list, what a selling point.

Many ideas have been put forth. One that I suggested, that gained moderate interest, would be to assign 20/21 units to each cabana. Those individuals could treat the cabanas as a time share and rent it out for 3 or 4 weeks each summer.

The only downside to this is that we have almost 50% of the building who doesn't care to use the cabanas, so it adds a layer of complexity.

Thanks for the suggestion and basic math lesson.
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Oops, that came out a bit catty - rawr.

I'm assuming the basic math lesson was intended for the board, although, maybe not.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BR3 on 03/26/2014 8:37 AM
Oops, that came out a bit catty - rawr.

I'm assuming the basic math lesson was intended for the board, although, maybe not.


No it was intended to point out that even someone with basic math skills could see that there was no way that everyone who could possibly want to have a cabana, could have one. So there should have been some mechanism set up from the get-go on how to handle it and that is usually found in the covenants. It's one thing if the Board changed the mechanism, then you might have a valid complaint. It's another if the complaining homeowners didn't read the covenants before they purchased and are now having a case of buyers remorse.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 03/26/2014 3:02 PM
Posted By BR3 on 03/26/2014 8:37 AM
Oops, that came out a bit catty - rawr.

I'm assuming the basic math lesson was intended for the board, although, maybe not.



No it was intended to point out that even someone with basic math skills could see that there was no way that everyone who could possibly want to have a cabana, could have one. So there should have been some mechanism set up from the get-go on how to handle it and that is usually found in the covenants. It's one thing if the Board changed the mechanism, then you might have a valid complaint. It's another if the complaining homeowners didn't read the covenants before they purchased and are now having a case of buyers remorse.

Tough love here but I think part of BR's issue is he cannot get a cabana so he wants to make it easier for himself to get such under the guise of better for all.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DarylF on 03/25/2014 2:40 PM
Law of supply and demand.

Clearly the demand for the cabanas greatly exceeds the supply. Thus, simple solution, raise the price of the cabanas until the demand better equals the supply.

LOL … I’m with you Daryl … Raise the price, rent them on a weekly or daily basis vs. all summer. Sounds like those cabanas could have potential of paying all or majority of the HOA costs. That would benefit more individuals including those who do not choose to utilize.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
I think another issue is the auto renewal of those contracts.

Perhaps monthly contracts should be used or simply renting them on a daily basis (like many resorts do).
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
I'd like a cabana, sure. But as Tim said, it's the auto renewal that's the real problem. I'm (we're) paying for the upkeep and not permitted to use them. Not to mention the folks who currently have a cabana are quite territorial of the pool and their 'area'.

The option to make money is available, but difficult when board members have permanent cabanas and don't want to share.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
BR3,

Even if you are able to oust the current board and make changes, a future Board can undo the changes you made. If you want lasting change, you will need to amend your governing documents. I'd recommend an amendment to the Bylaws (as they are typically the easiest to amend).
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Hi Friends,

I've gotten in touch with our state rep's regarding enforcing our governing documents in IL and thanks to a posting here (TimB4), I was able to ask how I could best support this legislation to create an Ombudsperson to enforce the law. Both representatives sponsoring this legislation have extended a helpful hand. In fact, I have an in person meeting in two weeks to discuss our concerns and how to nudge our board back into compliance. Other suggestions for achieving results outside of a courtroom are always appreciated.

The bill went to a vote today, but I can't tell if it passed. Can anyone help me interpret this review of the bill?

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=4204&GAID=12&DocTypeID=HB&Sessi85&GA=98

If the link doesn't work, please do a google search of "Bill Status of HB4204 98th General Assembly" (IL).

Many thanks!
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Thank YOU for the update, BR3!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BR3 on 04/10/2014 10:34 AM
Hi Friends,

I've gotten in touch with our state rep's regarding enforcing our governing documents in IL and thanks to a posting here (TimB4), I was able to ask how I could best support this legislation to create an Ombudsperson to enforce the law. Both representatives sponsoring this legislation have extended a helpful hand. In fact, I have an in person meeting in two weeks to discuss our concerns and how to nudge our board back into compliance. Other suggestions for achieving results outside of a courtroom are always appreciated.

The bill went to a vote today, but I can't tell if it passed. Can anyone help me interpret this review of the bill?

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/BillStatus.asp?DocNum=4204&GAID=12&DocTypeID=HB&Sessi85&GA=98

If the link doesn't work, please do a google search of "Bill Status of HB4204 98th General Assembly" (IL).

Many thanks!

How would having an Ombudsperson solve your Cabana issue?
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
It's runs deeper than the identified 2 classes of owner problem. We are out of compliance with our election protocol - there is no approved owner list that should be provided to check ballots against; and everyone who voted in the last contested election (renter, deceased, illegible signature), had their ballot accepted, no questions. The board has appointed all replacements and elections, for the most part, go uncontested. No one will ever unseat the board this way, and they know it.

The Ombudsperson would help enforce the by-laws for both creating one class of owners and to ensure our elections follow the guidelines.
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 04/10/2014 12:52 PM
Thank YOU for the update, BR3!

Hi CarolR11. Thanks for all of your support.

We have a community meeting tonight to gather our supporters and to try to come up with ways to address these problems with an emphasis on preserving our community. I'm not sure how we do this, but we're trying our best.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Onward!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BR3 on 04/10/2014 1:09 PM

The Ombudsperson would help enforce the by-laws for both creating one class of owners and to ensure our elections follow the guidelines.

Maybe. The VA ombudsman will only take complaints of violations of applicable State laws and will not investigate any complaints that governing documents are being violated (unless the alleged violation also violates an applicable statute).

I believe that this is due to staffing, funds and by dealing with one standard (the statutes) vs. multiple variations of governing documents, the available funds and staff are utilized to their potential. Perhaps in time, the Office will expand to include governing documents but for now, this is how VA's ombudsman office works.
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/10/2014 4:29 PM
Posted By BR3 on 04/10/2014 1:09 PM

The Ombudsperson would help enforce the by-laws for both creating one class of owners and to ensure our elections follow the guidelines.


Maybe. The VA ombudsman will only take complaints of violations of applicable State laws and will not investigate any complaints that governing documents are being violated (unless the alleged violation also violates an applicable statute).

I believe that this is due to staffing, funds and by dealing with one standard (the statutes) vs. multiple variations of governing documents, the available funds and staff are utilized to their potential. Perhaps in time, the Office will expand to include governing documents but for now, this is how VA's ombudsman office works.

I'm very thankful to have the expertise of very smart people's experiences and knowledge. I should reign in my expectations that and ombudsman will be the silver bullet here and keep my eye on the prize: replacing this crazy board.

In other news, the bill passed the house today!

Off to a community meeting (and had a couple glasses of wine, to help ease the nerves)
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BR3 on 04/10/2014 1:12 PM
Posted By CarolR11 on 04/10/2014 12:52 PM
Thank YOU for the update, BR3!


Hi CarolR11. Thanks for all of your support.

We have a community meeting tonight to gather our supporters and to try to come up with ways to address these problems with an emphasis on preserving our community. I'm not sure how we do this, but we're trying our best.

Are you not going into this meeting with your personal burning issue being the cabanas?

BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:


Are you not going into this meeting with your personal burning issue being the cabanas?


I'm going to the meeting because I care about being compliant with the law, fairness, and exposing corrupt practices. It's funny, those with cabanas who are on the board speak just like you do. Do you by chance live in my building Johnc46?
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
How'd your community meeting go BR3?

PS, I don't agree with JohnC46's approach to your cabana problem.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 04/12/2014 9:49 AM
How'd your community meeting go BR3?

PS, I don't agree with JohnC46's approach to your cabana problem.

Carol

I never suggested an approach to the Cabana issue other then to agree with one poster that said keep increasing the rental fee until just enough people want (can afford) them. That was some what tongue in cheek but still a good idea. Make them revenue producing for the association.

I had suggested to BR3 about taking the BOD over if enough of The Whipper Snappers want change.

I had also asked BR3 if the real motive behind what he is doing is so he can have a chance at getting a cabana versus being altruistic.

One of my issues is I have seen many people get on a BOD's/committees because they have one issue (cabana's, sheds, parking, etc.) and when that issue is put to rest, they no longer participate. While not accusing BR3, this did all start with his inability to get a cabana versus mismanagement by the BOD.

CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Well, JohnC, my remark had to do with your insinuation that BR3 solely is interested in the cabana issue for selfish reasons. It seems to me his interest is much boarder than his personal use. Tocqueville once discussed "self interest rightly understood." He explained that someone may have an idea or 'agenda" that would benefit self, but the person is aware that many others would benefit as well.

I also believe that if the gov. docs say the cabanas are common area, then assigning them to the highest bidders, i.e., the wealthiest, is really repugnant. (There also would be tax issues.)
BR3 (South Carolina)
Posts: 25
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 04/12/2014 1:09 PM
Well, JohnC, my remark had to do with your insinuation that BR3 solely is interested in the cabana issue for selfish reasons. It seems to me his interest is much boarder than his personal use. Tocqueville once discussed "self interest rightly understood." He explained that someone may have an idea or 'agenda" that would benefit self, but the person is aware that many others would benefit as well.

I also believe that if the gov. docs say the cabanas are common area, then assigning them to the highest bidders, i.e., the wealthiest, is really repugnant. (There also would be tax issues.)

Thank you Carol.

The cabana issues is the tip of the iceberg. There are a number of perks for board members that have been alleged, voting is not fair, and many owners, even ones who don't want a cabana, have the opinion that they want a fair and compliant policy in place should they ever wish to use the common elements.

We're not a one hit wonder, and are not solely focused on trying to gain this single amenity. Our reserves are by far the lowest from that of our neighbors. We're a rather large building with over 400 units and an operating budget over $3 million. We've run our campaign on reducing costs, being more active with contract negotiations, increasing transparency and communication, building reserve funds, fairness, and keeping in compliance with our governing documents.

Those who oppose us, say: "They (he) simply wants his own cabana." It's been an effective strategy for people who don't want to think any harder than to skim the surface.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here