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RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
We are a Texas based HOA for about 140+ single family homes. The covenants prohibit long term parking (more than a week) of boats, RV's and trailers in the open. They must be in a garage or permanently screened. The HOA can send letters and hope that the owners move or screen the boats, RV's and trailers. The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary. The HOA has no ability to fine for covenant violations. Anyone have any suggestions on how to encourage the homeowners to comply without taking legal action?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
if the vehicle is moved it is no longer 'parked'

sooo

I 'park' my boat for 6 days ............... move it out and back into my driveway !!!!!!

I could probably prove it was moved, could the HOA prove it was parked?
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
First check the Texas HOA statutes to see if the legislature might have given the HOA the power to fine through the statutes. Other than that, you might consider amending the CC&R's to give you the power to fine.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Probably not. Excellent way to get around the rule!

Any thoughts on how to encourage you to move it into your garage permanently?
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Already did. The HOA cannot fine if it is not expressly allowed in the covenants.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardC16 on 03/18/2014 8:04 AM
Already did. The HOA cannot fine if it is not expressly allowed in the covenants.

Then amend the Covenants to allow fining or absent that then you need to take legal action. On the plus side you can ask the judge to have the scofflaw pay the HOA's legal fees. 50/50 chance they will.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Yes, Richard. Per Glen: amend your convenants. What % vote is required to approve such revisions? Does TX state laws have a way--through the courts for instance--to achieve a lower %?? (CA does.)
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary.


Contact the HOA attorney and pass the costs for hiring that attorney on to the violator. Could cost $1000 easy. Lien and foreclose if necessary to collect the attorney fees.

That "is" your fine.

When faced with a $1000 legal bill, its likely your violators will conform to the CCR/Bylaws.
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Covenants require 67% approval of homeowners to amend the covenants. Probably unlikely that homeowners would approve fines. Texas law states 67% unless covenants have a lower %.
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Great idea. Will check with HOA attorney to see if Texas law allows for that.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
The covenants prohibit long term parking (more than a week) of boats, RV's and trailers in the open.


If moved every 6 days and 23 hours there is NO VIOLATION.

This is why beach 'no parking' always says:

No parking between xxxxPM and xxxxAM (usually 4 hours).

DOH

good luck LEGALLY amending your covenants

RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/18/2014 9:38 AM
The covenants prohibit long term parking (more than a week) of boats, RV's and trailers in the open.


If moved every 6 days and 23 hours there is NO VIOLATION.

This is why beach 'no parking' always says:

No parking between xxxxPM and xxxxAM (usually 4 hours).

DOH

good luck LEGALLY amending your covenants


As I mentioned earlier: Excellent way to get around the rule!

No intention of amending the covenants for fines. Even I would vote against fines of any sort.

Just trying to find ways to get homeowners to follow the spirit of the requirement.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardC16 on 03/18/2014 7:52 AM
We are a Texas based HOA for about 140+ single family homes. The covenants prohibit long term parking (more than a week) of boats, RV's and trailers in the open. They must be in a garage or permanently screened. The HOA can send letters and hope that the owners move or screen the boats, RV's and trailers. The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary. The HOA has no ability to fine for covenant violations. Anyone have any suggestions on how to encourage the homeowners to comply without taking legal action?

We manage an HOA which has these Covenant requirements. The way under their current Covenants has been to have an attorney take them to Court and ask the Judge to make comply with the Covenant restriction plus awarding attorney fees and Court costs be paid by the violator. After receiving a decision from a Judge which requires the violator to pay $XXXX.00 you can publish this information (without identifying the violator). Provide it to all owners to make them think twice before they consider violation of any Covenant restriction.
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RogerB on 03/18/2014 11:37 AM
Posted By RichardC16 on 03/18/2014 7:52 AM
We are a Texas based HOA for about 140+ single family homes. The covenants prohibit long term parking (more than a week) of boats, RV's and trailers in the open. They must be in a garage or permanently screened. The HOA can send letters and hope that the owners move or screen the boats, RV's and trailers. The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary. The HOA has no ability to fine for covenant violations. Anyone have any suggestions on how to encourage the homeowners to comply without taking legal action?


We manage an HOA which has these Covenant requirements. The way under their current Covenants has been to have an attorney take them to Court and ask the Judge to make comply with the Covenant restriction plus awarding attorney fees and Court costs be paid by the violator. After receiving a decision from a Judge which requires the violator to pay $XXXX.00 you can publish this information (without identifying the violator). Provide it to all owners to make them think twice before they consider violation of any Covenant restriction.

I believe it this approach would be effective although the Texas courts do not work quickly in these matters.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
first, you must document an actual violation

if they show proof of movement, there is no violation
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/18/2014 2:00 PM
first, you must document an actual violation

if they show proof of movement, there is no violation

The actual covenant reads as follows:

“Campers, trailers, recreational vehicles, and boats must be parked in a garage or otherwise totally and permanently screened throughout the year from public view and adjacent property when not in use.”

The HOA has generally given the homeowners a week before sending notice of the violation.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Sometimes, Richard, covenants contain an article that permits Boards to suspend common area privileges for repeat violations, uncured violations or delinquent assessments. We have done this and gained compliance. But do you have such article? And do you have any common area privileges worth suspending?
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CarolR11 on 03/18/2014 3:35 PM
Sometimes, Richard, covenants contain an article that permits Boards to suspend common area privileges for repeat violations, uncured violations or delinquent assessments. We have done this and gained compliance. But do you have such article? And do you have any common area privileges worth suspending?

Great idea but we have about 1000 sq ft of common area that is mostly flower beds at our entrances to the subdivision. So even if we had such a clause it would be meaningless in our situation.
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Has anyone used Facebook or the HOA website to post pictures of the covenant violations? ...a wall of shame?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
The actual covenant reads as follows:

“Campers, trailers, recreational vehicles, and boats must be parked in a garage or otherwise totally and permanently screened throughout the year from public view and adjacent property when not in use.”

The HOA has generally given the homeowners a week before sending notice of the violation.


aaaaah .... the ACTUAL covenant

so ... enforce it via the court system

OR

get an actual life
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnB26 on 03/19/2014 7:36 AM
The actual covenant reads as follows:

“Campers, trailers, recreational vehicles, and boats must be parked in a garage or otherwise totally and permanently screened throughout the year from public view and adjacent property when not in use.”

The HOA has generally given the homeowners a week before sending notice of the violation.


aaaaah .... the ACTUAL covenant

so ... enforce it via the court system

OR

get an actual life

Personally I don't care about the boats. However if a homeowner complains the HOA must act.
So the constructive comments so far are:

1) Go through the courts
2) Spend money with an attorney and file a lien for the attorney fees
3) Amend the covenants to add fines

JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
to answer the OP:

nope, you will need to actually take legal action to establish a 'precedent'
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

Tough love here but in your first post you said not parked for more then a week.

Then later you posted the Covenant which basically says never.

Then you say fining is prohibited unless specifically allowed

To me this says you need to read and better understand the Covenants. Might well be time for independent legal advice on the issue.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. It is not meant to be.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardC16 on 03/19/2014 7:54 AM

Personally I don't care about the boats. However if a homeowner complains the HOA must act.

Unless your covenants require your association to act on each and every complaint, you have no duty to do so. Normally it is within the board's discretion to decide which battles to fight and very few are worth fighting.

Most CC&R's also give each homeowner the authority to enforce the covenants through civil action in the courts. If an issue is not important enough for a homeowner to fight his own battle then there is little reason for the association to commit its resources to fight on behalf of the complaining homeowner.

JoK2 (California)
Posts: 198
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 03/18/2014 8:14 AM
The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary.


Contact the HOA attorney and pass the costs for hiring that attorney on to the violator. Could cost $1000 easy. Lien and foreclose if necessary to collect the attorney fees.

That "is" your fine.

When faced with a $1000 legal bill, its likely your violators will conform to the CCR/Bylaws.

Check with your state code to make sure that you will be allowed to collect fees and fines. Our state passed legislation that prohibits collecting these if it's associated with violations. We can only recover them with liens, and liens can only be done for non payment of assessments.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
That strategy, if fought, wouldn't hold up. You know that, or should.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 03/20/2014 4:32 AM
Posted By SteveM9 on 03/18/2014 8:14 AM
The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary.


Contact the HOA attorney and pass the costs for hiring that attorney on to the violator. Could cost $1000 easy. Lien and foreclose if necessary to collect the attorney fees.

That "is" your fine.

When faced with a $1000 legal bill, its likely your violators will conform to the CCR/Bylaws.


Check with your state code to make sure that you will be allowed to collect fees and fines. Our state passed legislation that prohibits collecting these if it's associated with violations. We can only recover them with liens, and liens can only be done for non payment of assessments.

Jok

I believe you are incorrect. Read the following link about MD.

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/OCP/Resources/Files/CCOC_Newsletters/2012_Winter.pdf

RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoK2 on 03/20/2014 4:32 AM
Posted By SteveM9 on 03/18/2014 8:14 AM
The letters state that the HOA can contact its attorney and take legal action if necessary.


Contact the HOA attorney and pass the costs for hiring that attorney on to the violator. Could cost $1000 easy. Lien and foreclose if necessary to collect the attorney fees.

That "is" your fine.

When faced with a $1000 legal bill, its likely your violators will conform to the CCR/Bylaws.


Check with your state code to make sure that you will be allowed to collect fees and fines. Our state passed legislation that prohibits collecting these if it's associated with violations. We can only recover them with liens, and liens can only be done for non payment of assessments.

Texas law allows HOA's to fine BUT the CCR must state that the HOA has the authority to fine. Our CCR's do not give the HOA the authority to fine.

Our CCR's do allow for liens to collect attorney fees.
RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/19/2014 5:00 PM
Richard

Tough love here but in your first post you said not parked for more then a week.

Then later you posted the Covenant which basically says never.

Then you say fining is prohibited unless specifically allowed

To me this says you need to read and better understand the Covenants. Might well be time for independent legal advice on the issue.

Sorry if this sounds harsh. It is not meant to be.


John,

Stick to the point of the OP

1) HOA can't fine, it is not stated in covenants. Texas law allows HOA's to fine BUT only if stated in covenants.

2) Covenant requires boats, campers etc. not allowed in the open. [Sorry I used the word "parked"]

3) Homeowners complain, per the covenants, the HOA is required to act.

Q: How does the HOA enforce a covenant, without the ability to fine?

I received 3 ideas:

1) Go through the courts
2) Spend money with an attorney and file a lien for the attorney fees
3) Amend the covenants to add fines

Can you add anything else that is constructive?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Richard

4) Get an attorney to review the covenants concerning fines and/or passing costs on for violating Covenants. Especially the passing costs on which are not fines. Those costs could get pretty hefty. Might even cost money to have the violation letter written and one can recover costs.

As an example. Our law/collection sends a letter out threatening to commence foreclosure and the costs will be $895.00 plus back dues. The threat alone drives people to act. We have never gone to that stage, but the treat has worked.

I am trying to help you here.

RichardC16 (Texas)
Posts: 21
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/20/2014 8:35 AM
Richard

4) Get an attorney to review the covenants concerning fines and/or passing costs on for violating Covenants. Especially the passing costs on which are not fines. Those costs could get pretty hefty. Might even cost money to have the violation letter written and one can recover costs.

As an example. Our law/collection sends a letter out threatening to commence foreclosure and the costs will be $895.00 plus back dues. The threat alone drives people to act. We have never gone to that stage, but the treat has worked.

I am trying to help you here.


Thank you.

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