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DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I want to start off by saying I admire the dedication of anyone who volunteers to be on a BOD. From reading these post I can see that many of you care deeply about your Association. I do believe in the concept of HOA'S. But what can you do when your Board is self-dealing, operating in secrecy, and breaking what I interpret as state and federal laws? I have shared the document information with several of my neighbors, some wanted to do something about it, others called me a troublemaker and said they don't want to be involved (they don't understand as a member of the Association they are involved whether they like it or not). I have been to an HOA Attorney for consultation, this cost was split between two people and I have spent some money on obtaining copies of documents from the county. I have spent hundreds of hours of research trying to wrap my layman head around what has been done and how, and trying to understand our By-Laws and Indentures plus state laws and federal. Jointly we have sent a letter of warning to the board and we also allowed them to read the Attorney opinion.

Our goal and recommended by the Attorney was to resolve the issues in this manner. The BOD cleared up some matters and ignored others. I stayed quiet and gave them the time to clean it up. I have now found they have spread it all over the Association that I have filed a lawsuit. I have many people that I have never met angry at me. I have lost the friendship of some close neighbors.

My main fear was the discovery that not all of our common grounds had been insured, we live in a zone of violent weather and tornadoes. Some of these areas are full of old trees overhanging homeowners houses. I have also discovered two Board Presidents have written licenses to allow themselves to fence our common grounds into their yards, they both have pools. Our Attorney said we are now liable for those yards. These two Presidents then filed Quick Claim deeds in language which I believe includes these licenses to give them permanent control and ownership (did not have these at time of attorney meeting). They refuse to release records, they meet in private without announcing their meetings at Board Members houses, they don't post the minutes on the website for more than 6 months after they meet. We have several years of no records except partial financials. After confronting them they are now meeting some of our bylaw requirements for financial information. I have been threatened to silence me, by an Attorney hired with HOA funds, because of that, and all the anger directed at me I have not disclosed everything. I have much more to disclose to this site but I will stop here at this point. I ask that you respond to me politely because I am under emotional distress. I will not spend any more of my hard earned money on Attorneys nor at this time can I move. I am most likely going to go silent, I don't know if all that has and is being done is bad enough for the circuit court to take us over but I have decided the damage to our subdivision is not worth it, Attorney agreed.
NancyG3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 342
Posted:
You aren't alone. I wish I had a solution for you, but, without other homeowners backing you there is really nothing you can do. I did the same things you have done and finally gave up. I've put my hopes with organizations that are trying to get laws passed to change our state laws and hoping they succeed. I also spend a lot of money on trying to get our Board to obey the laws of the State and they refuse. After 5 years I've given up because they keep voting themselves back in and the other homeowners just don't care. You may check other discussions on this forum regarding the same thing. Some of the men have written good suggestions on what you can do. Look in the forum search and other discussions. Good luck.
DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
It is election time and the ringleader of the problems is up for election so we rallied about ten people put up a candidate, formed teams for canvassing, had letters ready to send out, had our own proxy ready to go. The BOD would not answer our e-mails about the election date or any information, so we decided to take matters into our own hands, however after they changed the date for the election 5 times (we found out by the calendar where we meet) and moved it so far out our candidate got so stressed she quit.

What they are successfully going to do is get majority quorum by proxy. Most people just signed the general proxy to them, this in spite of the fact they did not mail out or post a budget for 2013, did not include any minutes, or agenda. They have been given a blank check to do anything they want. They did not disclose on the letter accompanying the proxy what powers it would give them, just stated they needed it to conduct business, never mentioned it would be used for quorum either, and it is good for all 2014. They fired the Management Company in early 2013 at the end of their contract so they could operate in secrecy since they stopped the Board from questionable, unethical and possibly illegal behavior several times. Part of those funds saved were used to lower assessments a small amount which made the Board very popular with a lot of short- sited homeowners. I suspect their goal is to change amendments to cover up their past actions to make it legal and to try to give away our common grounds which has been their goal for the past two years. I have been in a three year fight to stop encroachment on the common grounds in the area I live.

This subdivision has about 150 houses, value- 350,000 to over 500,000. Our assessments are 220.00, we have a lot of common ground but no pool or clubhouse. They keep the assessments so low by not maintaining all the common grounds, forcing owners to do it and put the entire subdivision at a liability risk- we are talking about mowing, weed whacking, using chainsaws to trim trees etc, which our Insurance Company says is not covered for liability. The homeowners begin to think they own the common ground since they are maintaining it and some have fenced parts of it.

We were turned over in 2006 and the President added the buffer strip of ground that surrounds most of our subdivision to our Association by quick Claim Deed (no survey) and did it in secret, in 2008. Then she proceeded to have the licenses written up to give herself that common ground and fence it into her yard, thus closing off access, and giving herself enough room to build a pool. She claimed the builder gave her permission, so one homeowner requested to see that document and we were told by another Board Member they could not find it.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Hi Dee … Welcome to HOATalk

I can fully understand your frustration.

Now with regards to the major issues you stated in your last paragraph:

With regards to your weather concern: If you live in a violent weather zone with tornadoes then you should be able to have reliance that each homeowner should have insurance to cover their losses. In a tornado zone if a tree harms a neighbor home they would have to prove that the tree came from the HOA and not from many miles away … how many of those type trees exist within X mile radius and the HOA cannot be responsible for an Act of God with regards to the weather. That is why the owners are supposed to have insurance of their own to protect and rebuild their property.

The issue you have is Missouri State Statutes from what I have seen only possibly cover Condominium Property. And from your statements you appear to be a single family home HOA subdivision. You and other homeowners in your state need to start pounding your legislators to adopt something to protect owners in single family subdivisions. A good start for the legislators to consider is adopting all or portions of the Uniform Common Interest Ownership Act (UCIOA). Start writing to your State and Federal Legislators regarding your issues and asking why Condominium owners have statutes protecting the rights of citizens and yet single family HOA do not have the same rights.

If you and enough other owners start making a ruckus with the legislators they in turn might themselves request the local or state Attorney General to review the situation (in fact I would also send letters to the local and state Attorney Generals). In those letters make big waves with regards to the quitclaim deeds and other owners attempting to essentially steal HOA property. The Attorney Generals are individuals who you can disclose everything to and hopefully might help out the situation.

Do you know how long ago they filed the quitclaim deeds? This information can be found from your local County Records if you do not yet know when filed.
DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I have copies of one of the quick claim deeds from the county. The President herself told me she had filed a quick claim deed which I have not tried to confirm. I did not have this copy of the deed at the time of Attorney consultation. I did not know it existed at that point.

In regards to your comment about tornado damage. We have many high wind storms that are not tornados and effect only small areas so it would be easy to confirm damage from a tree came from the area I am talking about. Also our documents clearly describe what type of insurance we are required to carry. The BOD refused my request to see the policy and the Insurance carrier has also told me they will not give me a copy.

The Hoa Attorney wanted 2500 just to start an investigation, he was going to get a court order to get our records. that's when most people balked at getting involved they did not want to share the cost, and I believe the 2500 was just the beginning of the cost of what would have been an extremely ugly and costly situation.

Attorney advised against involving the state- first he didn't think our situation was bad enough that they would get involved, and secondly he said if they did it would basically ruin our subdivision for a long time in terms of trying to get appraisals or selling a home, plus divide us into a battleground. He gave us many ideas on how to handle it internally which we attempted.

I want to add another item to the list of what our Board has been involved in. One of our BOD(treasurer) members worked for a major financial company. As soon as the builder left he took our Associations money and placed it in an money market account under his name. He claims he made no money from this transaction but the truth is since it was his customer he got credit for that from his company. We have no financials for three years while he was doing that except for a simple budget. We have no idea if there was any retained earnings or loss. His friend a tax accountant was doing our taxes at the time and still is. Our bylaws clearly state how our money is to be handled- in a FDIC Bank, we are allowed investments but only by what the bylaws have listed as acceptable and not with operating money. I have been told but I have no documentations to prove this that he was comingling our money with other accounts. He was stopped by two other BOD Members in a confrontation in which he responded to by cursing them and slamming his chair. He was turned into his company and investigated.

I am going to go back over your suggestions and see if there is anything else I might do. But I have to tell you I am extremely weary of fighting this. The State of Missouri is no help, we have no laws to protect us from BOD'S like this and even our Bylaws and Indentures give them power over the homeowners that allows them to self-deal.

I have also gone to the county planning and zoning with overhead maps showing them where the fences are in the common ground and asking them to get involved, they did nothing. These people have no fencing permits - the county will not give them fencing permits into common ground,.but apparently neither will the county go after people who fence without them.

I appreciate your suggestions I will send a letter to the state about our need for laws like Arizona has.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
if the hoa is incorporated (likely)

and your assessment is even 1/2 accurate

you may petition the appropriate court to appoint a 'corporate receiver'

the receiver will be paid via your 'dues'

however, the COURT SYSTEM will now be responsible for getting y'all back on track

receivership will be released when the hoa can demonstrate the ability to manage itself

tough love, and expensive, but love none-the-less
DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
yes
subdivision is incorporated.

At this point I should add that several of us were walking in the street one night after meeting and some neighbors who are good friends of one BOD member confronted us jabbing their fingers in our faces and threatening us with body posture, and accusing us of deliberately causing trouble in Association. These types of actions could be and most likely will be repeated by other people in our Subdivision. They know that a few of us have the documents and I believe we will be opening ourselves up for any kind of oppressive behavior if we go to the state. Including physical harm, vandalism, and verbal assault (which has already occurred many times) this is why some of the people have dropped out of our group of support. if I were in a position where I could move I would be more willing to do more.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
you have received the 'tough love' SOLUTION

use it to actually RESOLVE YOUR ISSUES

or

be silent and accept the situation



ps. let the toric ka-ka continue
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
[q1uote] Including physical harm, vandalism, and verbal assault (which has already occurred many times) this is why some of the people have dropped out of our group of support.


and, surely, you have the police reports that show this behavior

if not, why not ?

to repeat :

lead

follow

get out of the way
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Dee

I am not nor do I play a lawyer.

FYI

The term "quick claim deed" is used often by many, but, the reality is that it is not correct. To be technically accurate you should use "quitclaim deed." The popular usage of placing a "quick" instead of "quit" originated because of the fast process of transferring ownership of real property.

A quitclaim is a type of deed used to transfer title and ownership of property from one person or entity to another.

The party transferring their ownership interest is known as "Grantor" and the recipient of the transfer is the "Grantee."

The Grantor does not ever have to own the property because this type of deed releases ownership interest without any guarantee or warranty.

In other words the Grantor makes no assurance of actually owning or having a vested interest in the property. This is why a title search is always a smart thing to do.


As no particular person owns common property (all owners do) I think what someone might have done is just taken possession (in like with a fence) some of the common ground. I doubt there was a quitclaim deed and if so it is illegal as they do own the property.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Deez:

When was the quitclaim deeds filed? If you have a copy the date filed should be noted on the copy. In some states if not disputed within a certain time period the deed can possibly become permanent.

If your documents or state law require certain insurance coverage, then the HOA needs to follow what is stated.

Before getting an attorney involved I would recommend you first send a letter to the Board politely requesting any records you are entitled to receive. Be sure to send the letters Certified Return Receipt so you have proof it was delivered and will put the Board on notice you are tracking all correspondence.

If any HOA money is in someone else’s name other than the HOA that needs to be fixed, if it has not already been remedied.

The attorney while has some good points regarding involving the State also would rather you not involve them because he would not be getting his fees for pursuing any action. If there are threats, assault, or vandalism then the police need to be notified as pointed out by JohnB26. Also, that is potentially another reason to have the State involved and put a Corporate Receiver as JohnB26 also noted between everyone until HOA is back on right track.

Keep in mind that while you do not have HOA statutes, your HOA is still governed by the corporation statutes and contract laws in your State.
DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
Sorry I did not spell quit claim correctly. I will tell you what it says without revealing names. This Deed made and entered into...... by and between husband and wife .......(hereinafter Grantor(s).......(hereinafter Grantee(s) address......

The bottom says "To have and to hold the same, together with all rights and appurtenances to the same belonging, unto the said Grantor(s) and to their heirs and assigns of such party or parties forever. So that neither the said Grantor(s) nor their heirs, nor any other person or persons for them or in their names or behalf, shall or will hereafter claim or demand any right or title to aforesaid premises, or any part thereof, but they and everyone of them shall, by these presents, be excluded and forever barred."

Its long and I left out the middle which describes the property

Remember this quit claim followed a license which granted them the right to extend their fences from their property line into and including the common ground. This license was filed at the county and is 9 pages long. I can only tell you an Attorney (not HOA) says this document is not worth the paper it is written on. They are granting themselves this ability by using the easement rights for utility services in our bylaws.

I am just an ignorant lay person by no means a Attorney. What I have researched says when you file a quit claim it can be used to give up an easement.

Easement right (granted by Irrevocable license) to Quit Claim - Research says it can be used to change title from tenant in common to joint tenants and used to take community property to an individual. You are left with a murky property title, no attorney is necessary only a legal form.

They did not file a quit claim to each other or to anyone else. I think the key word is appurtenances.

I am not claiming this is legal or they did it correctly. I will repeat I did not have this at the time of the HOA attorney consultation.
DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I will add the police were called after one incident and a report filed.
DeeZ (Missouri)
Posts: 10
Posted:
I will add the police were called after one incident and a report filed.
SG3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 63
Posted:
The grade school mentality is deplorable. Best to move and let the babies have their bottle. Let birds of a feather flock together.

Is this about spending/costing more money that they are so hostile and aren't interested in following the documents that protect and the law?

What is the benefit to them?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Having been through a similar situation I am going to give you some good advice to help your issues. Just understand that this advice you can NOT force on anybody and that is the point. You have to give up some bit of control in the matter. It is going to be tough but sometimes you have to put the ball in other hands to make a play....

This is just a seed and takes time to grow. You said they told people you are suing. Which contacting a lawyer may make them think that. However, an actual lawsuit is a different animal. It takes paperwork. IE PROOF of what they say. Simply mention to the members that if you are suing then they have a right to see the paperwork and court date. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. Which means as a member of the HOA a member has a right to know. They ARE the client.

The board has to provide this information. Maybe NOT the details between the lawyer and them However, if the HOA is being sued members have a right to know and some lenders. If they do not disclose this then what else are they hiding or lying about may plant the seed of curiousity in others.

You want others to ask questions and get involved. They are NOT for your cause or reasons. They will for their own interest. Create the interest... Be prepared as well to consider being on the board. Handle the situation like if you were on the board. Do not handle it from your "wish list". Consider this training like many of us did when we changed things in our HOA's.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DeeZ on 03/12/2014 9:11 PM

The homeowners begin to think they own the common ground since they are maintaining it and some have fenced parts of it.

Actually, if the Association doesn't take action on these situations, the Association could lose that common area due to adverse possession.
AnnH5 (Florida)
Posts: 304
Posted:
Same story in my neighborhood. A few years back. a group tried to overthrow the regime by running for Board positions. However, these Board members went around and slandered, lied, and made all kinds of trouble for the few who were willing to step up to the plate. So now the conventional wisdom is to avoid any interaction with the sleazy Board.

I would be more than happy to enter a receivership as mentioned by others, but it would take a majority to agree and nobody wants their fees to go up. They would rather live in a trashy neighborhood.

My advice is to start planning your next move. Living in the situation that you are in is simply not worth your time, money, or the stress. As far as the allegations made against you, anyone can go into their county court database to look up a case. Feel free to share that information with those who are angry with you and give them a piece of paper with the link to the database printed out on it. They can see for themselves if you are "suing them".

I wish I had better advice but all I know is that I never want to live with an HOA again. Even if it seemed okay, all it takes is a single election and a group of dishonest, self-serving idiots to ruin the neighborhood.
SG3 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 63
Posted:
Ditto. This arrangement is a good idea in theory but its reality is hell.

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